All differences between Rubicon and Sport with Max Tow?

[Elanachan]

Did you figure it out yet

I'm leaning in the direction of the Rubicon so that I can have more offroad capability bone stock, regardless of what trim I get, the upgrades I would be getting for it would happen over a period of several years as my income won't allow me to dive in and immediately do everything to get it ready for bigger challenges, not without pushing out the purchase date to allow buying everything at once.

Edit: Part of the reason for the thread's existence was figuring out just how extensive the upgrades would be between the two trims, and thus finding out the total cost of upgrading to budget for it.

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[WhatExit?]

I'm leaning in the direction of the Rubicon so that I can have more offroad capability bone stock, regardless of what trim I get, the upgrades I would be getting for it would happen over a period of several years as my income won't allow me to dive in and immediately do everything to get it ready for bigger challenges, not without pushing out the purchase date to allow buying everything at once.

Edit: Part of the reason for the thread's existence was figuring out just how extensive the upgrades would be between the two trims, and thus finding out the total cost of upgrading to budget for it.

If you buy it you'll have even more time to figure out your budget

 

[Elanachan]

Thus the original question of which version to get: Get the sport and be able to get those upgrades that much sooner, or spend the extra cash upfront to have more immediate capability?

 

[LostWoods]

Thus the original question of which version to get: Get the sport and be able to get those upgrades that much sooner, or spend the extra cash upfront to have more immediate capability?

The real question is how much do you want to do and how soon. You really don't sound like you understand why you want to do these mods so I think you need to get a grasp on that before pulling the trigger.

I made a large post earlier but deleted it because re-reading, I sounded a bit like a dick... the point I was trying to make is that things like 1-ton axles, 40's, and lockers are a crutch 90% of the time. 1-ton's allow you to power through shit instead of learning proper right foot technique and restraint. 40's make many trails trivial where 33's or 35's make a moderate challenge that require proper reading and planning. Lockers can bail you out of a lot of situations that are caused by bad lines.

Don't get me wrong, there are trails where these are necessary tools but for most things people will do, they're not necessary. Get out there, wheel, break shit, fix it, and upgrade the things that you find falling short.

You came from the IFS world (as did I) and I'll say you will likely be surprised just how capable these trucks are. My Sport S bone stock handled stuff about on par with a lifted Tacoma on 33's and if I were on 34's or 35's, I'm sure I could wheel with the best of them. The articulation and travel on these trucks is outstanding and they are the most capable mid-size you'll find and flat out, a Rubicon on 35's will be superior to any IFS truck you've been in that doesn't have a long travel setup.

IMO, get the Rubicon, wheel it for a year and don't upgrade anything but tires (35's are nice) and armor (rails and skids) for the first year or x amount of trips. Try to avoid using the lockers to really test out where the shortcomings of your hardware are. If you find yourself needing to be pulled out a lot, get a bumper and winch. Rip the rear bumper off? Replace it with something better.

Have a plan for the upgrades you really want but don't do them until you find a reason. If you jump straight into an $80k build, you'll miss out on a lot of learning - both wheeling in general and about how your rig responds.

 

[Elanachan]

The real question is how much do you want to do and how soon. You really don't sound like you understand why you want to do these mods so I think you need to get a grasp on that before pulling the trigger.

I made a large post earlier but deleted it because re-reading, I sounded a bit like a dick... the point I was trying to make is that things like 1-ton axles, 40's, and lockers are a crutch 90% of the time. 1-ton's allow you to power through shit instead of learning proper right foot technique and restraint. 40's make many trails trivial where 33's or 35's make a moderate challenge that require proper reading and planning. Lockers can bail you out of a lot of situations that are caused by bad lines.

Don't get me wrong, there are trails where these are necessary tools but for most things people will do, they're not necessary. Get out there, wheel, break shit, fix it, and upgrade the things that you find falling short.

You came from the IFS world (as did I) and I'll say you will likely be surprised just how capable these trucks are. My Sport S bone stock handled stuff about on par with a lifted Tacoma on 33's and if I were on 34's or 35's, I'm sure I could wheel with the best of them. The articulation and travel on these trucks is outstanding and they are the most capable mid-size you'll find and flat out, a Rubicon on 35's will be superior to any IFS truck you've been in that doesn't have a long travel setup.

IMO, get the Rubicon, wheel it for a year and don't upgrade anything but tires (35's are nice) and armor (rails and skids) for the first year or x amount of trips. Try to avoid using the lockers to really test out where the shortcomings of your hardware are. If you find yourself needing to be pulled out a lot, get a bumper and winch. Rip the rear bumper off? Replace it with something better.

Have a plan for the upgrades you really want but don't do them until you find a reason. If you jump straight into an $80k build, you'll miss out on a lot of learning - both wheeling in general and about how your rig responds.

I want to finally have a vehicle capable of navigating the Rubicon Trail, which is actually quite close to where I currently live, and come out unscathed.

The frontier was the only 4x4 I've driven that had independent front suspension. Both jeeps (the XJ and the LJ rental), as well as my dad's suburban all have live front axles....also drove my grandfather's K-5 blazer for a while before the family sold it, though never took that one off of the pavement aside from driving up the driveway of my mom's 10 acre lot, which isn't navigable by vehicles that don't have 4wd/awd and good ground clearance.

While the XJ and the suburban were both lifted, neither of them were set up for more than moderate trails, and the frontier gave me the experience of having a "long" back end, so I know what to expect with departure angles, which the larger tires are supposed to help mitigate. When I took that truck to moab, there were multiple spots where regardless of what lines were available to me, the back end would inevitably scrape the ground, with one set of "stairway" obstacles smashing the low-hanging wiring harness for pulling trailers. At the time it had the largest tires I could put on it without doing a major lift to clear the wheel wells, which were probably either 33 or 35 inch tires.

Keep in mind that some of the lines out there are unavoidable simply because of the longer wheel base. When I was forced to use them in the La Sal mountains, the trail went right through a wash with steep grades on both sides, with not much maneuvering room without going off the trail, the wrangler ahead of me was able to use what width we had to insure both of his front tires were on the slope infront of us, which was at an angle, where as when I attempted a similar line, we ended up with the driver side front, and the passenger rear wheels being the only things touching, thus necessitating the locker (the frontier had one on the rear axle). I've also used it when my mom's driveway ices over in the winter.

I tend to think of a winch to be more of a crutch than diff locks if being used to pull you're self out of trouble, the diff locks seem more like adapting to the current situation. For me I see winches in a similar way to a highjack, it's good to have it just in case, but hope you won't need to use it. Diff locks on the other hand, it's a no brainer to engage them when you loose traction on one side for one reason or another.

 

[Elanachan]

After reviewing some of the trails I've been on, I would say that my skill level is currently being capable of borderline moderate to difficult trails.

 

[steelponycowboy]

Not performance related but...

Different interior accents.

Rubicon has 400 watt inverter.

Inverter is a $995 option but NOT standard

One can buy a nice 2000 watt inverter for less than FCA charges for the 400 watt one

 

[steelponycowboy]

The real question is how much do you want to do and how soon. You really don't sound like you understand why you want to do these mods so I think you need to get a grasp on that before pulling the trigger.

I made a large post earlier but deleted it because re-reading, I sounded a bit like a dick... the point I was trying to make is that things like 1-ton axles, 40's, and lockers are a crutch 90% of the time. 1-ton's allow you to power through shit instead of learning proper right foot technique and restraint. 40's make many trails trivial where 33's or 35's make a moderate challenge that require proper reading and planning. Lockers can bail you out of a lot of situations that are caused by bad lines.

Don't get me wrong, there are trails where these are necessary tools but for most things people will do, they're not necessary. Get out there, wheel, break shit, fix it, and upgrade the things that you find falling short.

You came from the IFS world (as did I) and I'll say you will likely be surprised just how capable these trucks are. My Sport S bone stock handled stuff about on par with a lifted Tacoma on 33's and if I were on 34's or 35's, I'm sure I could wheel with the best of them. The articulation and travel on these trucks is outstanding and they are the most capable mid-size you'll find and flat out, a Rubicon on 35's will be superior to any IFS truck you've been in that doesn't have a long travel setup.

IMO, get the Rubicon, wheel it for a year and don't upgrade anything but tires (35's are nice) and armor (rails and skids) for the first year or x amount of trips. Try to avoid using the lockers to really test out where the shortcomings of your hardware are. If you find yourself needing to be pulled out a lot, get a bumper and winch. Rip the rear bumper off? Replace it with something better.

Have a plan for the upgrades you really want but don't do them until you find a reason. If you jump straight into an $80k build, you'll miss out on a lot of learning - both wheeling in general and about how your rig responds.

I have to agree on your suggestion to buy the JT Rubicon or consider the Mojave when one comes into your dealers inventory. While the Mojave doesn't have some of the trim, a front locker and the electric sway bar disconnect, it has other features that more than make up for it. You can always add a front locker in the future on a Mojave if you feel that you need one but in all my years of Jeeping, I've found that using my lockers, especially the front one is the exception. I've installed Detroit and ARB lockers in some of my past Jeeps and on anything other than the extreme trails, I've never used them. Most of the guys I run with don't have lockers and they pretty much go anywhere I go without them, so........................

Having bought, built and wheeled 36 Jeeps since 1972, the most capable out of the box stock was my 1st Rubicon, a 2016 Hard Rock Model. Having said that, wanting a rig that can drive the Rubicon, you'd perhaps be better off with a shorter wheelbase Wrangler if that is all you want to do. There are trails that a short wheelbase will do better than a long wheelbase and vice versa. I can tell you I banged the ass end of my CJ8 Scramblers off road more than once. I've heard that happening with the JTs also. For me the Gladiator is more of an Overland Jeep than an extreme trail rock crawler and if that is why you are buying one, you probably should reconsider.

Jeep rates the Rubicon in its Badge of Honor program the hardest trail available. Not true. The Rubicon can be challenging but there are other trails such as Pritchett Canyon that are much more difficult. Jeeps get their Trail Rated badge because a very experienced driver with a good support team takes a stock Jeep over the Rubicon Trail. All of the Gladiators have earned the Trail Rated badge so one can assume that all Gladiators can do the Rubicon Trail if the driver is up to the challenge, takes a bypass or two and has a good spotter.

 

[Elanachan]

I have to agree on your suggestion to buy the JT Rubicon or consider the Mojave when one comes into your dealers inventory. While the Mojave doesn't have some of the trim, a front locker and the electric sway bar disconnect, it has other features that more than make up for it. You can always add a front locker in the future on a Mojave if you feel that you need one but in all my years of Jeeping, I've found that using my lockers, especially the front one is the exception. I've installed Detroit and ARB lockers in some of my past Jeeps and on anything other than the extreme trails, I've never used them. Most of the guys I run with don't have lockers and they pretty much go anywhere I go without them, so........................

Having bought, built and wheeled 36 Jeeps since 1972, the most capable out of the box stock was my 1st Rubicon, a 2016 Hard Rock Model. Having said that, wanting a rig that can drive the Rubicon, you'd perhaps be better off with a shorter wheelbase Wrangler if that is all you want to do. There are trails that a short wheelbase will do better than a long wheelbase and vice versa. I can tell you I banged the ass end of my CJ8 Scramblers off road more than once. I've heard that happening with the JTs also. For me the Gladiator is more of an Overland Jeep than an extreme trail rock crawler and if that is why you are buying one, you probably should reconsider.

Jeep rates the Rubicon in its Badge of Honor program the hardest trail available. Not true. The Rubicon can be challenging but there are other trails such as Pritchett Canyon that are much more difficult. Jeeps get their Trail Rated badge because a very experienced driver with a good support team takes a stock Jeep over the Rubicon Trail. All of the Gladiators have earned the Trail Rated badge so one can assume that all Gladiators can do the Rubicon Trail if the driver is up to the challenge, takes a bypass or two and has a good spotter.

If I go with a JT instead of a JLU, it would be multi purpose. In addition to being the designated offroad vehicle, it would also be used for towing my grandfather's ski boat (over 4000lbs when trailer mounted), as well as considering the idea of getting a travel trailer that, with the size range we're thinking of, would be in excess of 5000lbs (I'm not convinced the upgrades for offroading would completely kill the capacity), and we would be making extensive use of the bed for the various landscaping projects that mom wants help with.

 

[WhatExit?]

Seems to me most of this thread is about going with 40's to gain 1.5" more clearance

 

[Elanachan]

Including the suspension work, wouldn't it be more like 3.5 - 4 inches difference? This is assuming a 2 inch lift for 37s and a 4-4.5 inch lift for 40s.

 

[ACAD_Cowboy]

You are never going to get more than your lowest point which is the differentials.

33 to 33 = 0
33 to 35 = +1"
33 to 37 = +2"
33 to 40 = + 3.5"

All the suspension modifications is to get the axle low enough to not hit the body when steering and articulating.

Next up, how much of your hard earned gains (rightous gains brah) are going to be lost when you air it down to 10psi to maximize traction and compliance?

 

[Elanachan]

This is assuming we're talking about trying to make improvements for diff height, the reason for lifting it at all is better brakeover and departure angles.

 

[ACAD_Cowboy]

So bob the bed and shave the nose, take 3 feet out of the middle and we are done.

Better yet, wheel a CJ3 on NDTs and then decide if longer, wider and taller really is the way.

Even better yet, get the rubicon, buy a trailer and put a SxS on it, enjoy the wheeling and save a huge amount of money. Maximum smile per mile, minimal investment.

 

[Elanachan]

You are never going to get more than your lowest point which is the differentials.

33 to 33 = 0
33 to 35 = +1"
33 to 37 = +2"
33 to 40 = + 3.5"

All the suspension modifications is to get the axle low enough to not hit the body when steering and articulating.

Next up, how much of your hard earned gains (rightous gains brah) are going to be lost when you air it down to 10psi to maximize traction and compliance?

This is assuming we're talking about trying to make improvements for diff height, the reason for lifting it at all is better brakeover and departure angles.

Using the above table as reference for frame height:

33=0
33 to 35 plus 2" lift = +3"
33 to 37 plus 2" lift = +4"
33 to 40 plus 4" lift = +7.5"

As a reminder to anyone who isn't sure on these calculations, each whole inch added to the tire diameter raises the axle (and thus the rest of the vehicle) by .5 inches, whereas suspension lifts raise the frame and everything above it by the amount stated in the kit.

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