All differences between Rubicon and Sport with Max Tow?

[ACAD_Cowboy]

Saving the winch? I'd rather winch than waste time beating the rig and the trail. I've been on runs that became an elephant parade of trucks winching off trucks as each one made it up, way faster and safer.

But I do different things.

I think the issue at play is the target build is skewed very hard towards a trail toy and won't be a good a'lrounder when it's done:

• bed too high for comfortable loading, yeah yeah you can lift but hows that gonna feel with compound bucket #8 or cement bag #2
• hitch too high for most tongues
• suspension to compliant for most trailering needs
• back seat too high for most children to ascend
• majority of GVWR taken up by suspension and axles
• unsprung weight of tires kills economy and road manners
• majority of bed will be consumed by spare wheel and tire

Granted lifting and tires are the only real way to overcome wheel base and stupendous rear overhang. But all of these modifications result in sacrifices and compromises for a daily driven "ranch truck". Remember you need to live with this truck all the other times. If your commute requires the traveling of "seasonally maintained" roads in the sierras or transiting miles of rock gardens I get it, cost of getting to work but you are building some heavy artillery for the very rare moment. Stack some rocks, find a log chuck the mattracks down, they were right there on the cage, USE THE TOOLS PROVIDED.

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[Elanachan]

Saving the winch? I'd rather winch than waste time beating the rig and the trail. I've been on runs that became an elephant parade of trucks winching off trucks as each one made it up, way faster and safer.

But I do different things.

I think the issue at play is the target build is skewed very hard towards a trail toy and won't be a good a'lrounder when it's done:

• bed too high for comfortable loading, yeah yeah you can lift but hows that gonna feel with compound bucket #8 or cement bag #2
• hitch too high for most tongues
• suspension to compliant for most trailering needs
• back seat too high for most children to ascend
• majority of GVWR taken up by suspension and axles
• unsprung weight of tires kills economy and road manners
• majority of bed will be consumed by spare wheel and tire

Granted lifting and tires are the only real way to overcome wheel base and stupendous rear overhang. But all of these modifications result in sacrifices and compromises for a daily driven "ranch truck". Remember you need to live with this truck all the other times. If your commute requires the traveling of "seasonally maintained" roads in the sierras or transiting miles of rock gardens I get it, cost of getting to work but you are building some heavy artillery for the very rare moment. Stack some rocks, find a log chuck the mattracks down, they were right there on the cage, USE THE TOOLS PROVIDED.

Again, in places like around moab and other desert environments, use of a winch isn't always possible. I have seen how tall it would be with 40 inch tires and while yes it would be more challenging, I could still manage getting cargo in and out. The hitch issue can be solved by using one of those vertical extenders I see on some trucks, example shown bellow. We don't have nor plan on having children riding with us in the vehicle, so simply being accessible by adults will suit our needs. I would think new, stronger suspension and axles would actually make the GVWR somewhat higher than stock, with the bottleneck being how much the frame could handle. Sacrificing road economy is and has been a known factor when looking into this for some time, though some reports I'm seeing with such a setup are still coming back with fairly decent MPG, despite the modifications. And finally, I'm planning on mounting the spare on a swing gate like on the wranglers, so it won't actually take up any space inside the bed, check out EVO's build for reference.

 

[ACAD_Cowboy]

As the owner of an adjustable drop hitch, the first thing I do is take it off, great way to mash your shins and it catches everything. They work but too much of a drop starts inducing big bending forces at the turns and becomes a large lever. We all saw what a "light" trailer did to a gladiator frame.

And as Ive said, we do different things. This is mirror rock, mostly smooth and straight, except the trees are vertical and most times you need to get through a bog to get to it. Its a hoot in the rain or if its super dry and dusty.

 

[TheITGuy]

@Elanachan I think for what you want to do, a Power Wagon would be a much better starting point than a Gladiator. It comes with the heavier suspension, bigger axles, front and rear lockers, and disconnecting sway bar already, plus 3" (14.5" vs. 11.1") of additional ground clearance over the Glad. Not to mention twice the HP and torque. Throw on a 2-3" lift, the 40" tires, and a re-gear, and you're set.

 

[Bobzdar]

[

Again, in places like around moab and other desert environments, use of a winch isn't always possible. I have seen how tall it would be with 40 inch tires and while yes it would be more challenging, I could still manage getting cargo in and out. The hitch issue can be solved by using one of those vertical extenders I see on some trucks, example shown bellow. We don't have nor plan on having children riding with us in the vehicle, so simply being accessible by adults will suit our needs. I would think new, stronger suspension and axles would actually make the GVWR somewhat higher than stock, with the bottleneck being how much the frame could handle. Sacrificing road economy is and has been a known factor when looking into this for some time, though some reports I'm seeing with such a setup are still coming back with fairly decent MPG, despite the modifications. And finally, I'm planning on mounting the spare on a swing gate like on the wranglers, so it won't actually take up any space inside the bed, check out EVO's build for reference.

You can't increase the GVWR of a vehicle without getting it re-certified, so for all intents and purposes it's not possible if you're not a manufacturer.

In places like Moab, those trails are not required to get to the top, so imo building a rig to tackle them is kind of pointless if it sacrifices other capability you need and use much more often. It can tackle most of the trails as-is and the ones it can't have bypasses, so there's literally zero point other than saying you did it. If you want to tow and haul, leave it stock and learn how to drive it. Every modification you make will only reduce the towing and hauling ability as they will all add weight, and as I said, there's no way to increase the GVWR.

 

[ACAD_Cowboy]

Send your power wagon to AEV and stop all the chatter.

https://www.aev-conversions.com/vehicles/prospector-xl-2020/
https://www.aev-conversions.com/vehicles/prospector-xl/

Likey likey!

A heavy but realistic build is ~25k on top of the cost of a wagon, ~66k MSRP or a wickedly optioned tradesman for 47k MSRP.

Not a bad way to get it done.

 

[smlobx]

Send your power wagon to AEV and stop all the chatter.

https://www.aev-conversions.com/vehicles/prospector-xl-2020/
https://www.aev-conversions.com/vehicles/prospector-xl/

Likey likey!

A heavy but realistic build is ~25k on top of the cost of a wagon, ~66k MSRP or a wickedly optioned tradesman for 47k MSRP.

Not a bad way to get it done.

in the end that is a cheaper and much better package than trying to get a Gladiator up to those specs. Plus it will have much more capacity.

 

[ACAD_Cowboy]

Even better you can get a tradesman crew with an 8' bed and pour some love into picking out the power wagon axles and suspension before sending it off. Maximum fun wagon?!?

CJ3 and a utility trailer for the working tasks? No heat, no air, no radio, no top, no doors, lap belts only, a three speed and tires so skinny you thought they came off a motorcycle. Be surprised just how far you can get on a 4wd skateboard.

 

[Elanachan]

Two big reasons not to go with a power wagon: not a jeep, can't go topless.

 

[Bobzdar]

Two big reasons not to go with a power wagon: not a jeep, can't go topless.

And it's HUGE. Wouldn't fit through half of the places I take my Gladiator, which rubs the odd fender. If it wasn't so damn big and thirsty, I'd have considered one but even a half ton Rebel was too big for DD/trail use I do.

 

[WhatExit?]

Two big reasons not to go with a power wagon: not a jeep, can't go topless.

I can't bear to read all 6 pages of this thread to see if you tell me this: Have you purchased a Jeep Gladiator yet?

I see that you say you're a Prius owner who seems to be dreaming of building a monster Gladiator on 40's for rock crawling, overlanding and daily driving - is that right?

 

[WhatExit?]

And it's HUGE. Wouldn't fit through half of the places I take my Gladiator, which rubs the odd fender. If it wasn't so damn big and thirsty, I'd have considered one but even a half ton Rebel was too big for DD/trail use I do.

Yup. There's a reason that almost every trail is referred to as a "JEEP TRAIL" and the width of the worn areas somehow perfectly match the width of JEEPS

 

[Elanachan]

I can't bear to read all 6 pages of this thread to see if you tell me this: Have you purchased a Jeep Gladiator yet?

I see that you say you're a Prius owner who seems to be dreaming of building a monster Gladiator on 40's for rock crawling, overlanding and daily driving - is that right?

The whole reason I started the thread was to figure out which trim to get when I do buy. The only reason I have a prius instead of my frontier is because my old truck was having mechanical issues, and I was attempting to make uber work, which between gas and maintenance wasn't working out without swapping vehicles anyway. I honestly hated having to give up that truck and was hoping to upgrade from that directly into the gladiator, as I ended up having to sell it within a month or two of learning about it (july 2019). Also, my very first vehicle was a 1992 XJ Cherokee, which was when I had my very first offroading experience, that and being a passenger in my dad's 1998 suburban which did quite a number of trails in the moab area despite it's size. The last time we had a 4x4 "dry period", between when I was forced to hand over the XJ to my brother, who destroyed it by letting all the oil leak out, and when I got said truck, we rented a TJU Rubicon in moab, and I was the driver, it was my first experience driving on intermediate trails lathrop canyon) and frankly I couldn't get enough of it, I would've bought that jeep from the renters if I could.

 

[WhatExit?]

The whole reason I started the thread was to figure out which trim to get

Did you figure it out yet

 

[LostWoods]

Yup. There's a reason that almost every trail is referred to as a "JEEP TRAIL" and the width of the worn areas somehow perfectly match the width of JEEPS

Except that a Jeep is quite a bit wider than what it used to be. I mean you get a few inches in the body but the track and overall width of a JL and JT are now the same as the 4Runner and Tacoma, respectively - you just don't have the ears hanging out since the mirrors attach inboard of the fenders. I love that the JT is basically a classic compact pickup with a mid-size track but I'm sure there's many traditional "Jeep Trails" that won't leave a current Jeep unscathed.

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