All differences between Rubicon and Sport with Max Tow?

[sass JT]

Here’s and idea... so your looking to buy new right??? Why not go to your local 4wd shop and look at what it would cost you to make it the way you want... then ask to see if they work with a local dealer to install onto a vehicle from the dealer and wrap it all up into your payments... that way you get your vehicle the way you want it with the capability out the door. My local dealer does that all the time!

good luck.

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[WhatExit?]

@Elanachan Is money no object? You've wheeled a Nissan Frontier or whatever and now you seem to believe you need a Jeep on 40" tires because you want to have maximum approach, breakover and departure angles. C'mon, who does that on their first JEEP?!

If you go with 37's you can do that at minimal cost compared to going with 40's.

If your funds aren't limited then do it otherwise "settle" on 35's or 37's and do that AFTER you do some wheeling with a stock Rubicon because that Jeep can do more than most people want to do off road.

 

[LostWoods]

You are never going to get more than your lowest point which is the differentials.

33 to 33 = 0
33 to 35 = +1"
33 to 37 = +2"
33 to 40 = + 3.5"

All the suspension modifications is to get the axle low enough to not hit the body when steering and articulating.

Next up, how much of your hard earned gains (rightous gains brah) are going to be lost when you air it down to 10psi to maximize traction and compliance?

And don't forget that 1T axles have larger tubes and pumpkin. Going from 37's on a D44 to 40's on a 1T only improves axle clearance by 3/4-1" and doesn't do much at all for the diff housing.

 

[Elanachan]

Here’s and idea... so your looking to buy new right??? Why not go to your local 4wd shop and look at what it would cost you to make it the way you want... then ask to see if they work with a local dealer to install onto a vehicle from the dealer and wrap it all up into your payments... that way you get your vehicle the way you want it with the capability out the door. My local dealer does that all the time!

good luck.

Thanks for the idea, I might just look into that, J&M Offroad is our local shop, however they are closed down until the whole medical pandemic passes., I'm not sure if they work with the nearby dealers though.

@Elanachan Is money no object? You've wheeled a Nissan Frontier or whatever and now you seem to believe you need a Jeep on 40" tires because you want to have maximum approach, breakover and departure angles. C'mon, who does that on their first JEEP?!

If you go with 37's you can do that at minimal cost compared to going with 40's.

If your funds aren't limited then do it otherwise "settle" on 35's or 37's and do that AFTER you do some wheeling with a stock Rubicon because that Jeep can do more than most people want to do off road.

As I've said before, my first jeep was a 1992 XJ Cherokee, this will be my second.I also know from the wheeling I did in the Frontier, which had Nissan's Nismo offroad package, that I reached the vehicle's limit before I reached my own. From the footage I have seen of the Rubicon Trail, I have what it takes to navigate it with a good spotter, so long as I also have a vehicle that is up to the task. I also want to explore more of the Moab area that wasn't accessible with my previous 4x4....Honestly I would love to hone my skills enough to make The Maze in Canyonlands a possibility. After looking up Pritchett Canyon, mentioned earlier by steelponycowboy, I'm convinced that I could eventually do trails like that with a bit more practice, in short I want to graduate from intermediate rated trails into the more difficult ones so I can expand the places I can go, and I'm wanting to build a vehicle that will serve that purpose while also still being serviceable as a work vehicle.

And don't forget that 1T axles have larger tubes and pumpkin. Going from 37's on a D44 to 40's on a 1T only improves axle clearance by 3/4-1" and doesn't do much at all for the diff housing.

Research is ongoing with me, and I know more now than when the thread started. I'm already anticipating eventually installing D60s.

Edit: Removed an earlier post that was essentially a repeat of this one that didn't include the reply to LostWoods

 

[BOONEDOG]

I think recently someone posted that they got the 8.4" Uconnect on their sport S and it got them the in-cab usb ports on the back of the center console, I may be mistaken though.

You also don't get the footwell interior ambient lights on the sport/sport S, but do on the overland/rubicon.

Seats covers are also obviously different, not sure if the foam padding is actually different though. Rubi also gets the molle seat back panels.

Exterior badging is different.

I'm pretty sure all models have all the same skids as the Rubicon except for the front-most one that protects the Rubicon's sway bar disconnect.

The hood vents on the Rubi are more for show; they have a drain hole in them for water, but don't do much if anything for ventilation.

My Sport S with Uconnect 3 & 5 inch Screen has the 2 USB Ports on the back of the center console.

 

[Bobzdar]

Thanks for the idea, I might just look into that, J&M Offroad is our local shop, however they are closed down until the whole medical pandemic passes., I'm not sure if they work with the nearby dealers though.

As I've said before, my first jeep was a 1992 XJ Cherokee, this will be my second.I also know from the wheeling I did in the Frontier, which had Nissan's Nismo offroad package, that I reached the vehicle's limit before I reached my own. From the footage I have seen of the Rubicon Trail, I have what it takes to navigate it with a good spotter, so long as I also have a vehicle that is up to the task. I also want to explore more of the Moab area that wasn't accessible with my previous 4x4....Honestly I would love to hone my skills enough to make The Maze in Canyonlands a possibility. After looking up Pritchett Canyon, mentioned earlier by steelponycowboy, I'm convinced that I could eventually do trails like that with a bit more practice, in short I want to graduate from intermediate rated trails into the more difficult ones so I can expand the places I can go, and I'm wanting to build a vehicle that will serve that purpose while also still being serviceable as a work vehicle.

Research is ongoing with me, and I know more now than when the thread started. I'm already anticipating eventually installing D60s.

Edit: Removed an earlier post that was essentially a repeat of this one that didn't include the reply to LostWoods

A stock Rubicon will handle the Rubicon trail, why do you think you need 40s? Get a stock one and learn to drive it, then worry about mods after a few years when you truly understand the stock capabilities.

 

[ACAD_Cowboy]

Came across this video, not a bad watch. They top out at 35's but it does demonstrate the practical effects of size changes.



They show both IFS and live axle and the big difference a small size change can have. The big beastly aussie 'cruiser utes are big and heavy and long, easily comparable to a gladiator.

The "road behavior" section is especially relevant as they show the real effects of on road driving with big rubber.

 

[LostWoods]

Came across this video, not a bad watch. They top out at 35's but it does demonstrate the practical effects of size changes.

They show both IFS and live axle and the big difference a small size change can have. The big beastly aussie 'cruiser utes are big and heavy and long, easily comparable to a gladiator.

The "road behavior" section is especially relevant as they show the real effects of on road driving with big rubber.

Also to add, there's a reason they stop at 35's - Australian off-roaders don't have the flexibility that we do in the US because of government regulation. There are limits on total height you can lift the body (which includes suspension and tires) and how much larger your tires can be than stock. A JTR in Australia would only be allowed a small spacer lift and 35's before having to jump through significant hoops to get one-off approvals.

Just watch all the Aussies on YT and see how hard they're wheeling compared to the average person around here and realize that even the big 79's are only running a few inches of lift and 35's. That should show you just how capable a SFA rig can be with even small upgrades.

 

[Elanachan]

Came across this video, not a bad watch. They top out at 35's but it does demonstrate the practical effects of size changes.



They show both IFS and live axle and the big difference a small size change can have. The big beastly aussie 'cruiser utes are big and heavy and long, easily comparable to a gladiator.

The "road behavior" section is especially relevant as they show the real effects of on road driving with big rubber.

"Rock steps" that are larger than what's shown in the video you linked (timestamp 8:30) is likely the primary reason I'm considering 40's, as 37's on a JT still necessitated the use of a winch in cases like the video I linked on page 5 (posed #70).

 

[LostWoods]

I don't think you're considering anything. 8 pages in and while you may have learned a few things, you're still as dead-set on 40's as you were on page 1. It's your money, just do what you want. If you want to be smart about it you'll build a trail pig and not suffer the pain that is 40's on a DD but it's clear that's something you'll need to learn yourself.

Winching and trail damage is just part of the game. If you're in a vehicle that can do the Rubicon without winching or a scratch, you're in a vehicle that will make 90% of the trails out there boring as fuck and CA has a ton of good stuff that doesn't require resorting to an off road park for a challenge like we do out east.

 

[ACAD_Cowboy]

Are you afraid of bumping and scraping a vehicle you want to take on the rubicon trail? Why are you so offended by the winch? What about all the other trails you plan of riding, won't they feel a bit like a wet dish rag with such a massively over built rig? What will this rigs life be like all the other days it's not on the rubicon? As I previously stated, you'll spend perhaps 2 week a year low and locked, but what do the other 50 comprise?

 

[Alabama Mud Machine]

You'd be best to buy a JK with an LS swap, and D60 swap, and already on 40's, and then wheel it. It would be cheaper than buying a stock JT Rubicon off the lot.

I don't think the JT is the right vehicle for you if your whole goal is off-roading. The JK or JL would be a better option.

 

[Elanachan]

From the moment I mentioned that the truck would not "just be a toy" on page 5, I've been ridiculed for it because my multi-purpose role for the vehicle doesn't fit neatly inside the box you guys have made for it, despite the whole point of the gladiator is versatility capable of multiple tasks. FCA themselves have given multiple examples of during their debut of the prototypes of how versatile the platform can be. Sure, with my setup the bed might be half a foot higher off the ground than stock, that doesn't mean I can't still load the thing with cargo, or use it for towing with an appropriately leveled hitch. Yes, the towing capacity will be lowered by the modifications, but I'm willing to bet it would still be greater than a stock JLU.

I did my initial homework, came to the conclusion of what I would be going for, and asked how to best approach it. Instead of helpful feedback, some have gone out of their way to criticize what I'm trying to plan for, and for being more cautious than some offroaders out there for the very reason that I'd rather not damage a vehicle that would probably cost close to 80K once all the additional hardware is added if I can avoid it. When it comes down to it, the whole building it up BEFORE it gets damaged is an exercise in preparedness. And being critical of someone planning to also use such a vehicle for work instead of collecting dust in the garage when not on trail rides seems rather juvenile and short sighted, as not all of us have the space for a third vehicle that can be a dedicated toy.

There is plenty of challenge to still be had with the kind of hardware I'm looking to add. Some of us like going offroad for the places not accessible on pavement, playing in the mud, and, well, climbing on rocks. Not all of us are after the battle damage and want to keep it to a minimum, where the only instances are caused by operator error and unforeseen circumstances, not lack of vehicle capability. As far as expenditures for the parts and frequency of taking it out on trails, that's my business, and anyone I choose to share the experience with. Price quotes are nice, but the total budget is my job to look after.

Constructive notes people have made to add to the topic thus far:

*Rubicon is the better trim if the upgrades aren't going to be immediate

*Sport is better if upgrades will be added at or near time of purchase, no console-mounted 110 outlet and inverter

*Re-gear to 5.13 with D60s + new brakes?

*4-4.5 inch suspension lift to accommodate axle articulation with new tire size

*Rubicon hood in stock form has purely cosmetic vents - Might look into something more practical to install in place of the pop-out plastic, possibilities for increased engine cooling with modifications?

*Might need to check differences in the wiring harness to see if there are differences between trim levels (such as lack of wiring for features not included in a stock Sport S).

 

[whiteglad]

I agree that the Gladiator can be a versatile platform. I suggest that what you want is best found in the moderately modified range. Stock, with the Sport all terrain tires is one extreme, and modified with 40" tires is the other extreme. If you read through all the posts and try to take the positive aspects of the recommendations, I believe you will find that mildly to moderately modified would be the "sweet spot." Something like 33-35" tires, possibly a 2" lift, would be a good starting point. If you choose a Rubicon or Mojave, try it stock first, and see if it, and you as driver, can do what you really need/want. I would rather bring good hiking boots to explore the more radical areas than build a JT so extreme that it is not particularly suitable for other uses.

 

[LostWoods]

From the moment I mentioned that the truck would not "just be a toy" on page 5, I've been ridiculed for it because my multi-purpose role for the vehicle doesn't fit neatly inside the box you guys have made for it, despite the whole point of the gladiator is versatility capable of multiple tasks.

You've been ridiculed because you are doing a toy build that you want to pretend isn't a toy.

It's designed to be versatile in stock or lightly modified form. What you are doing is throwing FCA's engineering out the window and assuming it will still work as originally intended.

D60's and 40's put massive strain on every component of the truck. They amplify forces to the steering an all the suspension mounts. Steering will be vague and sluggish and much harder than stock without a hydro assist (which still doesn't fix the vagueness). The engine will feel like you have a sumo wrestler in the back trying to turn those tires even with 5.38's (which just barely gets you back to stock max tow ratios). You will be replacing parts much sooner than you would even with 35's or 37's and if you aren't doing your own work, it will be a continuous battle diagnosing the problems the setup will cause at great expense.

FCA themselves have given multiple examples of during their debut of the prototypes of how versatile the platform can be.

That's called marketing.

Sure, with my setup the bed might be half a foot higher off the ground than stock, that doesn't mean I can't still load the thing with cargo, or use it for towing with an appropriately leveled hitch. Yes, the towing capacity will be lowered by the modifications, but I'm willing to bet it would still be greater than a stock JLU.

It will be 8" higher at a minimum but that's a moot point. Your tow rating would be zero because you would have no tow rating. The modifications you are proposing require fundamental modifications to the vehicle including ripping out and modifying critical components involved in creating that tow rating. You're adding that height to the hitch and drop hitch of that size puts significantly more strain on the frame (because physics) so every jostle and bump is amplified at the mounting point. That's not even including how much less stable the truck is at that height making towing massively unsafe.

The added weight of axles and tires alone will eat 400 lbs of your payload and by the time you include all the necessary suspension, HD steering, and armor to avoid scratching anything, I don't know what cargo you intend to carry around besides a cooler because your payload will be cooked. You definitely aren't going to have the payload for a 300# tongue weight.

But I've said all I can say. Go buy your 80k truck and learn your lesson because you clearly aren't going to listen to the suggestions of those of us who have experience already.

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