Are those shocks installed upside down?

[MadMax]

So, ok, I'm a newbie when it comes to knowledge of off road components of the suspension. But...I've seen photos, and my own vehicle, where shocks are mounted upside down (piston rod mounted on the top mount and cylinder on the bottom mount). And on other vehicles I've seen the shocks mounted with the cylinder on the top mount and the logo of the shock can be seen through the wheel well. So...why are some shocks mounted upside down and some right side up? Can they be mounted either way? or are some shocks designed to be installed upside down and not right side up?

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[ACAD_Cowboy]

Shock orientation shouldn't make a difference to operation. Packaging is another matter.

 

[Renegade]

Traditionally, hydro shocks are mounted with the shaft up, and nitrogen charged shocks are mounted with the shaft down. I’m sure there are specific deviations from this.

 

[WhatExit?]

So...why are some shocks mounted upside down and some right side up? Can they be mounted either way? or are some shocks designed to be installed upside down and not right side up?

https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALeKk03uZf6axV3YMrWknbLTFjgNf9NsoA:1584398019074&ei=w_5vXo2PBInx-gSr86d4&q=off+road+shocks+upside+down&oq=off+road+shocks+upside+down&gs_l=psy-ab.3..33i160j33i299.11133.12774..13061...0.4..0.136.1228.1j10......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j0j0i22i30j33i22i29i30.RDYqI4dcbwg&ved=0ahUKEwjN_O_IhqDoAhWJuJ4KHav5CQ8Q4dUDCAs&uact=5

 

[ACAD_Cowboy]

Okay so looking at it that way, you'd mount the can at the top so crud falls or is washed away from the wiper seal for the shaft.

It makes no difference from a "strength" view as the forces should NEVER be being transmitted through the shock, you know unless you've done something very bad.

 

[Jimmy]

Some shocks can be mounted with the can up or down, and some cannot. Just need to understand the technology within for the reason why.

 

[Demo_slug]

twin tube vs mono tube shocks. Don’t run a twin tube upside down.

 

[Knox]

It really doesn’t matter, but there are justifications. 1. You can’t mount a shock reservoir to a shaft, so reservoir shocks need to be mounted with the shock body bolted to the frame, not the axle. 2. The shock body and oil weigh more than the shaft, and it’s best to minimize unsprung weight. 3. Mounting the body filled with oil to a violently shaking axle seems less than ideal. 4. Pointing the seal down could potentially decrease intrusion of debris into the shock. Maybe.

 

[sass JT]

Thread alive!!!!
I live by what manufactures say. They put a label or stamp the housing, put the shock body so you can read the info.

 

[ACAD_Cowboy]

Not the worst necropost I've been part of.

It really doesn’t matter, but there are justifications. 1. You can’t mount a shock reservoir to a shaft, so reservoir shocks need to be mounted with the shock body bolted to the frame, not the axle. 2. The shock body and oil weigh more than the shaft, and it’s best to minimize unsprung weight. 3. Mounting the body filled with oil to a violently shaking axle seems less than ideal. 4. Pointing the seal down could potentially decrease intrusion of debris into the shock. Maybe.

So just thinking about nearly every live axle and mcpherson strut suspension I've ever touched or supplied parts for, we run into some logic traps.

Modern gas charged shock dampers utilize some pretty advanced seals so that the nitrogen overpressure doesn't spit all the oil past the shaft seal. In effect this means orientation doesn't matter. However looking at my own rig, the damper body, the reservoirs, are mounted down on the axle side. This would intuitivly lead one to deduce that axle motion is going to agitate the oil regardless of where the unit is mounted. Being down would get the body into increased airflow and away from hot engine components. Resistance through distance and all that. Yes I would grant you that mounting to the body/frame would shift the load from unsprung to sprung and all of the advantages that gives. The Mojave has the remote resevoirs tucked up by the bumper for protection and cooling.

Ultimatly it's packaging in my opinion, how to best get the bits tucked away.

 

[Knox]

Not the worst necropost I've been part of.



So just thinking about nearly every live axle and mcpherson strut suspension I've ever touched or supplied parts for, we run into some logic traps.

Modern gas charged shock dampers utilize some pretty advanced seals so that the nitrogen overpressure doesn't spit all the oil past the shaft seal. In effect this means orientation doesn't matter. However looking at my own rig, the damper body, the reservoirs, are mounted down on the axle side. This would intuitivly lead one to deduce that axle motion is going to agitate the oil regardless of where the unit is mounted. Being down would get the body into increased airflow and away from hot engine components. Resistance through distance and all that. Yes I would grant you that mounting to the body/frame would shift the load from unsprung to sprung and all of the advantages that gives. The Mojave has the remote resevoirs tucked up by the bumper for protection and cooling.

Ultimatly it's packaging in my opinion, how to best get the bits tucked away.

And perhaps aesthetics. Many pay $3000 just to see their shocks. They’d be harder to see down on the axle.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

And perhaps aesthetics. Many pay $3000 just to see their shocks. They’d be harder to see down on the axle.

Damn, ya got me...........

But seriously - and I've not kept up on shock technology of the last 10 years or so - is there still a possibility of the oil "foaming" at all (not talking the 2,000/shock shock absorbers) and if so - should that be orientated away from the valving inside?
I replace 'em, I don't repair them or study them unless necessary so I know for a fact there are members here who are shock experts and know exactly how they are engineered and can name every part, etc.

And as far as the seals and rods - around here, you get a lot of salt and sand spray in the winter. I would imagine that it would make sense to orient the seal and shaft so that stuff doesn't settle down onto the top of the shock body, rotting away at the shaft and messing with the seal. This stuff is abrasive.
Disclaimer - the above paragraph is speculation, based on experiences and observations of shocks and other parts, but is not in fact proven.

 

[Knox]

Great questions. Having an internal floating piston with high pressure nitrogen on one side keeps the oil under pressure and free of air. And if there was a possibility of contaminants finding their way in, it would be very difficult with 200+ psi pressing against the seals. Your basic oem Fox shock has internal floating pistons. The downside to having that in the shock body like the oem shocks is that it limits the travel some, and limits the amount of oil inside which could cause the shock to run warmer. Most of our Jeeps don’t see high shock temps, so not really a big issue.
As for adjustability on shocks, if they’re tuned right it should not be needed. But it makes fine tuning easier, and allows us gladiator folks to tune for the load.
There’s much debate around tuning for road vs tuning for off road. I think that’s nonsense. Off road could be going slow over boulders (light tune), or hauling ass through the desert (firm tune). On road could be riding like a Cadillac (light tune), or tuned for performance (firm tune). Essentially, you run as little damping as needed for your terrain. Damping only prevents the Jeep from diving, bouncing, bottoming, pogoing, leaning, etc. you run enough to limit these, but there’s always compromise. If you tune a shock to drive 100 mph through the desert, it’s going to be firm on normal low speed roads which could lead to discomfort.
salt and chemicals do kill shocks. You can actually wax them as recommended by some tuners.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Great questions. Having an internal floating piston with high pressure nitrogen on one side keeps the oil under pressure and free of air. And if there was a possibility of contaminants finding their way in, it would be very difficult with 200+ psi pressing against the seals. Your basic oem Fox shock has internal floating pistons. The downside to having that in the shock body like the oem shocks is that it limits the travel some, and limits the amount of oil inside which could cause the shock to run warmer. Most of our Jeeps don’t see high shock temps, so not really a big issue.
As for adjustability on shocks, if they’re tuned right it should not be needed. But it makes fine tuning easier, and allows us gladiator folks to tune for the load.
There’s much debate around tuning for road vs tuning for off road. I think that’s nonsense. Off road could be going slow over boulders (light tune), or hauling ass through the desert (firm tune). On road could be riding like a Cadillac (light tune), or tuned for performance (firm tune). Essentially, you run as little damping as needed for your terrain. Damping only prevents the Jeep from diving, bouncing, bottoming, pogoing, leaning, etc. you run enough to limit these, but there’s always compromise. If you tune a shock to drive 100 mph through the desert, it’s going to be firm on normal low speed roads which could lead to discomfort.
salt and chemicals do kill shocks. You can actually wax them as recommended by some tuners.

Good info, thanks.
I'd heard of waxing - but just never did it. Maybe because my JT gets driven through our winter crap, I should think about it. The one pic I posted above shows the environment mine sees...
I try to knock that stuff off our vehicles before they go into the garage because the salt pits the concrete and causes flaking.

 

[ACAD_Cowboy]

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTdwUwUMX/?k=1

Reservoirs up, cans down.

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