Are we in denial about the factory oil viscosity and grade specifications?

[TheRealStreetcommander]

had zero break downs for the 115k we had it in our possession.

Our jtrd once it’s out of warranty is moving to 0w40 Mobil esp x3.

More good data. Thanks for being brave enough to say it out loud. --some folks get truly butt-hurt if you dare think independently and question the status quo. OBEY!

Pretty sure the specs for bearing clearances on the early Pentastar rotating assemblies are the same as current versions. I'm sure someone will correct me if this is inaccurate.

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[sharpsicle]

I wouldn't. You are clearly not an edge case for your particular engine's follower/arm issues either, and you keep up with your maintenance. The VVL issue is more curious though and more closely similar to the higher pressure flat-tappet cam failures. If a better formulated oil, even if a bit heavier, doesn't hurt operation, doesn't cost any more, and is more resistant to poor maintenance discipline, why not not talk openly about it and give folks an opportunity to make their own decisions? What if it would reduce the edge case failures further?

Do you have anything to back up these statements? I'm all for finding new answers to things, but without any kind of supporting information, this is all just idle speculation. I would caution against giving out technical advice that contradicts the manufacturer's instructions unless you can show some kind of evidence to support your assertions, especially to those who are concerned about maintaining their warranty.

I thought you wanted to avoid "internet lore or personal dogma"? Because the longer this thread goes on, the more you're showing that you might be less interested in the truth and more interested in perpetuating unproven theories that align with your own beliefs, right or wrong. That can be dangerous.

Again, I'm all for finding new answers to things, but you keep saying "more good data" to things that aren't actually data points. Just to things that appear to maybe line up with what you want to hear.

 

[bleda2002]

Haven't all the cam failures been tracked to the batch of engines made with the wrong lifters? I haven't heard of any cam issues beyond those that all found out their lifters were wrong (or they are FI which is a different story)

 

[TheRealStreetcommander]

perpetuating unproven theories that align with your own beliefs, right or wrong. That can be dangerous.

Letting people make their own decisions is always dangerous --It's called liberty.

This thread doesn't need the thought police accusing consenting adults of committing thought crimes. You and everyone else on this forum are at liberty to make the decisions you believe represent your best interest. Unless someone is holding a gun to your head, in which case PM me and I'll call the authorities.

 

[TheRealStreetcommander]

This is a site where you’ll get all the info you need on whether or not high ZINC or added ZINC or a thicker viscosity is good for engines. The science is spelled out and with over one million views to this engineer’s site, I’d say his work, tests and opinions are worth the time of day to read.
https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/

Thank you MG. Good post, with a lot information there. Thats a multi-day read for me.

 

[TheRealStreetcommander]

Haven't all the cam failures been tracked to the batch of engines made with the wrong lifters? I haven't heard of any cam issues beyond those that all found out their lifters were wrong (or they are FI which is a different story)

I saw some diagrams which seemed to show significantly different I vs E side lifter heights. Haven't tried myself, but those diagrams lead me to think they would not be inadvertently reversible. Need to verify.

 

[bleda2002]

I saw some diagrams which seemed to show significantly different I vs E side lifter heights. Haven't tried myself, but those diagrams lead me to think they would not be inadvertently reversible. Need to verify.

Check the forum posts, basically all the tear downs of eaten cams had exhaust on intake in one of the banks.

 

[sharpsicle]

Letting people make their own decisions is always dangerous --It's called liberty.

This thread doesn't need the thought police accusing consenting adults of committing thought crimes. You and everyone else on this forum are at liberty to make the decisions you believe represent your best interest. Unless someone is holding a gun to your head, in which case PM me and I'll call the authorities.

Whoa, slow down there cowboy. That is not at all what is being said here.

You are, of course, free to make your own choices. You've made it clear here that what you feel or believe are what really matters rather than actual evidence. But you also said in your initial post that unsupported beliefs or feelings were exactly what you didn't want in this thread. Nobody can stop you from flip flopping on that statement, nor will they, nor do I advocate for closing this thread because of it.

But as soon as you start taking these "feelings" of yours and use them to encourage others to stop using the factory spec oil and replace it with another oil, and make claims that the factory spec oil is damaging the engine and using a completely different weight oil will fix their problems, there's an issue. Add to that your statement that using whatever weight or formulation oil anyone wants doesn't risk voiding the warranty, and I'm going to have to bring it up, because those statements are plain wrong and dangerous to spread.

These comments are not trying to limit or censor your thoughts, but rather inquire as to your credibility. You showed an interest in gathering empirical data to bolster credibility to your statements. Great. But you haven't done that here, and I think it's important to recognize that. Apparently me asking for something that can show an iota of credibility behind your claims is a problem.

As I said, I'm all for learning new things and finding new solutions to problems. You aren't doing that here. You're cultivating a confirmation bias for yourself. By all means, believe what you want, have a conversation about it, but don't mislead others. If you have supporting data, by all means share it. Otherwise, the data that has been presented from actual credible sources will be the default standard.

Do I sometimes use other oils in vehicles? Sure. But I also recognize that nothing proves it's actually helping, and that I'm doing it purely from preference. I also recognize that a vehicle under warranty needs to be maintained properly to avoid potential warranty issues, including using the factory specified fluids where required. I would never claim otherwise, just like those forum members who have replied here with similar sentiments and acknowledgments. Do what you want.

 

[Hootbro]

It is not a oil viscosity grade issue if just about every reported cam and lifter issue starts with the passenger side head.

0W-20 is spec'd exclusively across all global markets to include the Middle East for the 3.6L Pentastar and the JT.

Everybody thinks they are an expert Tribologist based on feels and anecdotal reporting by others who do not understand the science themselves most times. I have been guilty of excessive hubris on the subject myself, but over time, I have come to realize that just maybe the people who spec the grade of oil in the owners manual just may know what the f*ck they are talking about.

 

[Lunentucker]

Here's a good article that addresses some the peaked interests mentioned in this thread.

 

[TheRealStreetcommander]

I know some of you are upset and you're acting out because I'm not obeying and I'm asking people to think rationally --thats' okay and I'm not taking it personally. It's an internet forum and everyone expects the forum regulars, particularly those with high post counts to get butt-burned when their echo-chamber is attenuated even slightly. After all, this is your forum, you've built this, and you will unilaterally control the talking points and content --right... right?

Thankfully, average clear-eyed folks will read through this and appreciate the benefits of the broader discussion.

Anyone who doesn't believe that we pay engineers to make intelligent concessions and compromises everyday, obviously isn't familiar with the industry. Pentastar engines probably have some of the lowest failure rates in the industry. They've made more than 10 million and they're nearly universally respected. It's a great engine. If Mopar can maintain that reliability and reduce fuel consumption by even a few % by using 0w20, what practical reason would they have for specifying anything else? That doesn't automatically mean that 0W20 is the best choice for absolute longevity. It was the best choice for the engine program directives they designed to.

It's not a vast Mopar conspiracy. Could using an oil with better film strength and better anti-friction properties reduce engine failures --maybe. Is it worth discussing and the braver of us experimenting with particularly if you're worried about "the tick"--absolutely.

I and others will do so and report back our results periodically here.

 

[TheRealStreetcommander]

Check the forum posts, basically all the tear downs of eaten cams had exhaust on intake in one of the banks.

I'll do that. Thanks.

 

[Lunentucker]

Pennzoil Ultra Platinum Synthetic - Because Science ?

 

[Hootbro]

I know some of you are upset and you're acting out because I'm not obeying and I'm asking people to think rationally --thats' okay and I'm not taking it personally. It's an internet forum and everyone expects the forum regulars, particularly those with high post counts to get butt-burned when their echo-chamber is attenuated even slightly. After all, this is your forum, you've built this, and you will unilaterally control the talking points and content --right... right?

No one here cares what you run, especially me. You can make your case to run olive oil for all I care.

No one is going to write on your Tombstone that you won a oil thread argument on the Internet as a crowning achievement.

 

[Mr._Bill]

The denial seems to be that the Pentastar engineers actually know what they are doing.

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