Auto Start Stop switch – Not why? But Why?

[Gvsukids]

Yes but if you keep your clutch pedal to the floor you never know it's there.

Conversely, by not pressing the brake pedal to the floor in the automatic, the vehicle won't shut off.

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[Wildtoad]

Kevin,

Thanks for the response. Being a curious kind of guy, can you point me to a study? I’d like to understand the conditions study was performed.

Thanks,

Tom

Studies have been done. The fuel savings is in the 5% to 7% range.
And the second battery is just one way of implementing ESS. Other manufacturers use a single battery.
And the starter motor is supposedly designed to handle the additional start cycles.

Kevin

 

[guntrust]

Conversely, by not pressing the brake pedal to the floor in the automatic, the vehicle won't shut off.

That might work, if you have the steel rear bumper (front and rear, even better).

 

[Lost1wing]

Kevin,

Thanks for the response. Being a curious kind of guy, can you point me to a study? I’d like to understand the conditions study was performed.

Thanks,

Tom

I think Greta did the study. Getting close to political but after all, everything is political now days.

5 to 7% is a big exaggeration. I would doubt that the best isn't even close to that.

 

[Bakerboy]

I think Greta did the study. Getting close to political but after all, everything is political now days.

5 to 7% is a big exaggeration. I would doubt that the best isn't even close to that.

I found a few links... have fun. The youtube seem like a good educated response.
Of course I don't really care as I only wanted to know why it wasn't hard wired to do this regardless, per my question.



AAA
https://newsroom.aaa.com/2014/07/aa...utomatic,automatic stop-start system disabled.

Auto Stop-Start Fuel Consumption Benefits
https://www.osti.gov/servlets/purl/2205440

Argone
https://afdc.energy.gov/files/u/publication/which_is_greener.pdf

 

[Wildtoad]

Thanks for the links, interesting reads.
Tom

I found a few links... have fun. The youtube seem like a good educated response.
Of course I don't really care as I only wanted to know why it wasn't hard wired to do this regardless, per my question.



AAA
https://newsroom.aaa.com/2014/07/aaas-tests-reveal-real-world-benefits-automatic-stop-start-technology/#:~:text=Test results indicated that automatic,automatic stop-start system disabled.

Auto Stop-Start Fuel Consumption Benefits
https://www.osti.gov/servlets/purl/2205440

Argone
https://afdc.energy.gov/files/u/publication/which_is_greener.pdf

 

[Lost1wing]

These "studies" assume the vehicle is driven in a certain condition and that max stop times are encountered. These are not real world situations.

If you are pressed to get carbon credits at the expense of the consumer, this is what you get. Just pass the bill to Joe lunch pail to pay for the R and D, added expense to the manufacturing and added expense to the repairs.

You can probably find a few you YouTube videos that have an adverse opinion of ESS. They won't be coming from a .GOV web site however.

One of the many articles on ESS. https://autoexpert.com.au/posts/the-truth-about-automatic-engine-stop-start-systems

 

[MrBones]

I’ve noticed that if you turn the wheel about a quarter/half turn to the left or right the auto start/stop does not engage. Also works to ‘force’ a start when stopped without pressing the accelerator.

Here’s a hack I just discovered. Living in SoCal I use the AC most of the time. When I have forgotten to switch off the ESS I usually check the status and get the “not ready cabin heating/cooling” message. I always set to either 60 or Lo. Just for kicks I bumped the control to 72 and sure enough ESS was active. So now the AC stays set to Lo and I don’t have to punch the ESS switch. I've driven for up to an hour and the ESS hasn't been "Ready".

 

[Mr._Bill]

After five years of driving a Gladiator, hitting the ESS button is just part of the startup routine. Occasionally, I will get distracted and forget, but not very often. It has saved me $130 for the Start/Stop device, which I have wasted on other stuff.

 

[guntrust]

After five years of driving a Gladiator, hitting the ESS button is just part of the startup routine. Occasionally, I will get distracted and forget, but not very often. It has saved me $130 for the Start/Stop device, which I have wasted on other stuff.

Aside from the (admittedly miniscule) risk of fatal or severe injury from delay in acceleration to escape a sudden threat, added expense (for added components, added service, and added wear and tear to existing components) for dubious benefit, I just don't like the idea of routinely pressing a button to signal my submission to communist controls. It is exactly like wearing a mask or getting the clot shot, and i refuse all three. Thankfully made easy with a manual transmission.

 

[Mr._Bill]

Aside from the (admittedly miniscule) risk of fatal or severe injury from delay in acceleration to escape a sudden threat, added expense (for added components, added service, and added wear and tear to existing components) for dubious benefit, I just don't like the idea of routinely pressing a button to signal my submission to communist controls. It is exactly like wearing a mask or getting the clot shot, and i refuse all three. Thankfully made easy with a manual transmission.

I've got nothing against the ESS system. Studies show that it can save money. I live in the desert and just don't like my cabin cooling interrupted. The necessary components have been upgraded to withstand the additional wear. Since I don't use ESS, I plan on not having to ever replace the starter.

Implementation of the ESS system allows Jeep to keep building inefficient vehicles. At least we have some control over it. The next stage will be an ESS with no control. Without an Administration change, that could be as soon as next year.

 

[GeneralMaximus]

I've got nothing against the ESS system. Studies show that it can save money. I live in the desert and just don't like my cabin cooling interrupted.

ESS doesnt shut off the climate control. Actually its the opposite; the climate control will inhibit ESS from shutting off the engine if its drawing too much from load.

 

[Mr._Bill]

ESS doesnt shut off the climate control. Actually its the opposite; the climate control will inhibit ESS from shutting off the engine if its drawing too much from load.

When ESS turns off the engine, the AC stops cooling. Once the cabin reaches temperature, ESS operates normally. You cannot rely upon the climate control to always keep ESS at bay.

 

[BourbonRunner]

ESS doesnt shut off the climate control. Actually its the opposite; the climate control will inhibit ESS from shutting off the engine if its drawing too much from load.

When ESS turns off the engine, the AC stops cooling. Once the cabin reaches temperature, ESS operates normally. You cannot rely upon the climate control to always keep ESS at bay.

I was gonna say, I've had several vehicles now with these stupid systems and the AC always drops out in off mode. In heating mode on my MB and Ford the fan speed lowers to compensate.

BTW, Jeep isn't the only one having issues with these. I'm putting the Bronco in the shop this evening while we're out of town over the next few days to fix the recall on Ford's version of the same govnt mandated nanny device.

 

[ZeeJay]

Conversely, by not pressing the brake pedal to the floor in the automatic, the vehicle won't shut off.

This is what I have done from day one. Light brake pressure. Even if it’s hard braking just relieve some pressure and done. Everyone once in a while it trips.

As for reason and the OPs question it’s because manufacturers are wringing every drop of blood they can. It’s the reason for the unusual charging system, an electric vacuum pump, an 8sp transmission constantly in lock up until last second with fast shift mapping and reaction time with a cooling circuit to heat transmission up, just the fact 8 and 10 sp autos are becoming the norm in everything, PWM driven cooling fan circuits, variable valve timing, higher fuel rail pressure, or in Toyotas case and eco mode creating shifts modes or how hard A/C blows, I know I’m missing some other examples because there are more. Point is engine tech and fuel mapping have flatlined, it’s over not much else to be done on that front, now they are into the details to wring efficiency out and ESS is just another avenue to pursue. It’s a parasitic load and excess waste game now and how to eliminate it, because government guidelines keep backing them into corners. Vehicles are getting larger and heavier with more stringent regulations and this is the result. Soccer moms want an Expedition Max or EL….whatever it is but they don’t want 1983 Suburban fuel economy, neither do the Feds. My JT doesn’t really do much better fuel wise than a ‘99 Ranger ext cab with a 4.0L V-6 I had once, about the same really. JT is just larger, far less aerodynamic and little heavier compared to ‘90s Ranger so aside from less displacement by .4 liters it’s the details that got it there.

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