Why do you like or dislike Auto start stop (ESS)?

[Cletus Bleeker]

Consider that every time this system stops your engine, the engine's oil pressure drops to zero. But your transmission is still in gear, meaning that the drive train load is reapplied at the instant the starter cranks when the brakes are released. But the oil pressure does not build again as quickly, so depending on how many cylinders fire before oil pressure is fully restored, all the engine's bearings have an applied load with less than adequate lubrication. So velogeek is quite correct, "there's just no way it doesn't cause unnecessary wear."
Yes we have an override button on our dashboard. My problem is that I'm an imperfect human that sometimes forgets to push the button when starting out, especially when I'm rushed by circumstance. I hate it when I realize that only at my next stop. It's like my body's own nervous system feels the pain of my suffering Jeep's engine bearings.
And for what? For accelerated and unnecessary wear mandated by our overzealous EPA to maybe save a tankful of gasoline over the engine's reduced lifetime? Absurd indeed.

Sponsored

 

[Rollcast]

The old lady drives a prius so I was fully accustomed to start/stop when I got the JT. I never even think about it.

 

[rafaelsmith]

Consider that every time this system stops your engine, the engine's oil pressure drops to zero. But your transmission is still in gear, meaning that the drive train load is reapplied at the instant the starter cranks when the brakes are released. But the oil pressure does not build again as quickly, so depending on how many cylinders fire before oil pressure is fully restored, all the engine's bearings have an applied load with less than adequate lubrication. So velogeek is quite correct, "there's just no way it doesn't cause unnecessary wear."
Yes we have an override button on our dashboard. My problem is that I'm an imperfect human that sometimes forgets to push the button when starting out, especially when I'm rushed by circumstance. I hate it when I realize that only at my next stop. It's like my body's own nervous system feels the pain of my suffering Jeep's engine bearings.
And for what? For accelerated and unnecessary wear mandated by our overzealous EPA to maybe save a tankful of gasoline over the engine's reduced lifetime? Absurd indeed.

Pretty much my thoughts as well. There is no way to defend the extra wear ESS will have on the engine....considering the extremely insignificant "benefits" of ESS. I went ahead and got a SmartStopStart. At first I was not keen on spending ~$130 to disable something I never wanted in the first place but now that I have I do not regret it.

 

[TigerUppercut]

I test drove both a 2018 JK and JL and disliked the ESS so much I couldn't justify paying more for a JL because of that feature and got the JK. That said, I never had that feature on a car so it was a pretty big inconvenience at first use. Also, it was the last model year of the JK, and I still have a while to see if they improve that ESS on the JL in the future.

 

[Oilburner]

Noob but related question: is the start/stop feature the Only reason we have the smaller battery?
What I'm getting at is, if we permanently disable the S/S would it be feasible to eliminate that 2nd battery all together (as in remove it)

 

[LostWoods]

Consider that every time this system stops your engine, the engine's oil pressure drops to zero. But your transmission is still in gear, meaning that the drive train load is reapplied at the instant the starter cranks when the brakes are released. But the oil pressure does not build again as quickly, so depending on how many cylinders fire before oil pressure is fully restored, all the engine's bearings have an applied load with less than adequate lubrication. So velogeek is quite correct, "there's just no way it doesn't cause unnecessary wear."
Yes we have an override button on our dashboard. My problem is that I'm an imperfect human that sometimes forgets to push the button when starting out, especially when I'm rushed by circumstance. I hate it when I realize that only at my next stop. It's like my body's own nervous system feels the pain of my suffering Jeep's engine bearings.
And for what? For accelerated and unnecessary wear mandated by our overzealous EPA to maybe save a tankful of gasoline over the engine's reduced lifetime? Absurd indeed.

Just a comment on this, ESS vehicles typically have engines that are designed specifically for it and they have beefier starters and bearings, specifically engineered coatings on bearings/components to reduce start-up wear, and check valves to maintain oil presence in essential places. The time it takes to rebuild oil pressure is nowhere near what is required to cause any significant wear.

While ESS doesn't really cause that much more wear than not using it, if the engine will go 200k with ESS enabled, it's going even further without it. I don't drive in conditions that show large ESS benefits so I keep mine off. If you drive in city traffic going light to light (as opposed to inching up on the freeway) where you sit for a bit there is real value in it. If you drive in stop and go freeway traffic or only stop briefly at lights, it's either causing undue wear or just not having enough time to show benefits.

 

[rafaelsmith]

Just a comment on this, ESS vehicles typically have engines that are designed specifically for it and they have beefier starters and bearings, specifically engineered coatings on bearings/components to reduce start-up wear, and check valves to maintain oil presence in essential places. The time it takes to rebuild oil pressure is nowhere near what is required to cause any significant wear.

While ESS doesn't really cause that much more wear than not using it, if the engine will go 200k with ESS enabled, it's going even further without it. I don't drive in conditions that show large ESS benefits so I keep mine off. If you drive in city traffic going light to light (as opposed to inching up on the freeway) where you sit for a bit there is real value in it. If you drive in stop and go freeway traffic or only stop briefly at lights, it's either causing undue wear or just not having enough time to show benefits.

I think the "style" of stop and go traffic is key. I found my MPGs actually ticked up a bit when i permanently disabled the ESS -vs- originally when I was just letting it do its thing. For me the stops from home to work were just so that basically it was constant on/off as traffic went thru. ...the moment it decided to shut engine off it was time to move. Was supper annoying and I could tell it was not a good idea. I put in one of the "remember the state" things and have not looked back. Few times I end up in traffic where I will be stopped for long periods of time...i turn it back on....but that is hardly ever the case.

 

[LostWoods]

I think the "style" of stop and go traffic is key. I found my MPGs actually ticked up a bit when i permanently disabled the ESS -vs- originally when I was just letting it do its thing. For me the stops from home to work were just so that basically it was constant on/off as traffic went thru. ...the moment it decided to shut engine off it was time to move. Was supper annoying and I could tell it was not a good idea. I put in one of the "remember the state" things and have not looked back. Few times I end up in traffic where I will be stopped for long periods of time...i turn it back on....but that is hardly ever the case.

Exactly. It may start with less fuel than a standard crank but it still uses I believe the equivalent of 8-10 seconds of idle fuel to get it going (been a while since I've read up on what's current). If you're not stopping longer than that on average, you'll see no benefit and really, you need extended stopping to actually see the benefit.

 

[Racer_X]

I'm aligned to most of the anti-ESS folks. We're grateful that we got to pay for the extra battery and upgraded components because it means they're more resistant to wear. By pressing the button every time we start the car (or after the first stop), we improve the life of the vehicle.

I've made choices so I only drive 8k miles a year. By doing that, I save far more gas than ESS will. I also have a 10 year minimum on most cars, so I save the environment a great deal by not incurring additional costs related to manufacturing and shipping vehicles.

As was mentioned earlier, having Al Gore take 1 less plane round trip a year does wonders for the environment. Ever noticed how the public figures encouraging "everybody" to make a sacrifice aren't doing it themselves?

 

[Mr._Bill]

Noob but related question: is the start/stop feature the Only reason we have the smaller battery?
What I'm getting at is, if we permanently disable the S/S would it be feasible to eliminate that 2nd battery all together (as in remove it)

The ESS system is why the second battery is there. Due to the design of the electrical system, it is not feasible to just remove the second battery. The ESS system is part of the vehicle function and cannot be permanently disabled. There are add-on items that can be purchased to control the temporary disable function so that it doesn't activate, but that's about it. There is a hood switch that can be taken out of its holder, which will keep it from activating, but you get an error light on the dash. You can also keep it from activating by driving with the driver seat belt unbuckled. I've just made pressing the disable button part of the startup sequence, as I don't want to spend $100 for the module to do it for me.

 

[Alabama Mud Machine]

I dislike it for many reasons... But primarily because It’s hard on the motor, and it’s just more expensive shit to tear up.

I bought myTazer for a few specific reasons, turning the ESS off permanently was one of them.

 

[SwampNut]

Nearly every argument against ESS is predicated on some misunderstood or bogus info. So I find myself not ever hearing a good argument against it. An example (not to pick on one person, most arguments against it are similarly misfounded), is the idea that the trans is "in gear" but there is no engine oil pressure. Well sure, but the torque converter and trans are also driven by oil pressure. So when it builds oil pressure to be "in gear" then so does the engine.

 

[Oilburner]

The ESS system is why the second battery is there. Due to the design of the electrical system, it is not feasible to just remove the second battery. The ESS system is part of the vehicle function and cannot be permanently disabled. ..

Thanks for the info. Next question: how will disabling the ESS impact the 2nd battery life?

 

[Mr._Bill]

Thanks for the info. Next question: how will disabling the ESS impact the 2nd battery life?

The battery gets very little use when ESS is not active, but is still part of the system. It can last up to five years, but the warmer the climate, the shorter the life. Eventually, it will fail, and may cause issues with starting when it does. Installing a Genesis dual battery kit removes the small ESS battery from the system.

 

[obrianmcc]

..... again my issues with this system are predicated around the programming. It's cycle parameters make little sense to me and I find it irritating when you roll up to a stop sign and it immediately shuts off.... or it cycles before I can shift to park when I park in the garage. The programming needs a delay.

I've learned to soft peddle the brake and can keep it from activating.... pretty much second nature now.

Sponsored