Aux battery delete???

[Lunentucker]

My problem is I know, but can't properly convey what I know. I was great at algebra until it came time to "show my work" on tests. Sorry, can't do that, I just know the answer

This was my exact experience with Algebra. I suspect we share more than I want to admit.

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[Gatorac]

Question I did the aux battery delete...meaning pulled the 42 fuse and removed the negative battery cable! I install a H7 main battery and the ESS still engages. Did I miss something?

Perhaps. Did you verify the correct fuse? I pulled the negative cable and pulled fuse 42 and ESS has not shut the truck off since. That was done several months ago. I've had no error messages on the dash either.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

This was my exact experience with Algebra. I suspect we share more than I want to admit.

As much as I really hate to admit it - you are one of those I'd put on my list to meet should I ever get through that part of the country (who knows, AMO shows are sometimes out that way)

Perhaps. Did you verify the correct fuse? I pulled the negative cable and pulled fuse 42 and ESS has not shut the truck off since. That was done several months ago. I've had no error messages on the dash either.

Pulling that fuse doesn't kill ESS. Electrically, it can't and doesn't.
If your ESS is non-functional, it's due to some other reason, not because you pulled that fuse.
Many who have done this, including Jerry who posted a nice writeup in the Wrangler forum about it, even explains why it does what it does, and why it doesn't kill ESS.
In your case, it's coincidence, something else, maybe even main battery voltage being low, but it's not because you pulled F42.
ALL pulling F42 does is prevent the PCM from opening the PCR during the initial big-button start and checking the aux battery. Otherwise pulling the negative cable alone will kick an error - pulling the fuse prevents the PCM from seeing the aux battery isn't there. Nothing more.
F42 is the PCR relay fuse. Without it, the PCM doesn't have any idea that it's 'open PCR' command hasn't taken place.

 

[Smokey Mtn]

As much as I really hate to admit it - you are one of those I'd put on my list to meet should I ever get through that part of the country (who knows, AMO shows are sometimes out that way)


Pulling that fuse doesn't kill ESS. Electrically, it can't and doesn't.
If your ESS is non-functional, it's due to some other reason, not because you pulled that fuse.
Many who have done this, including Jerry who posted a nice writeup in the Wrangler forum about it, even explains why it does what it does, and why it doesn't kill ESS.
In your case, it's coincidence, something else, maybe even main battery voltage being low, but it's not because you pulled F42.
ALL pulling F42 does is prevent the PCM from opening the PCR during the initial big-button start and checking the aux battery. Otherwise pulling the negative cable alone will kick an error - pulling the fuse prevents the PCM from seeing the aux battery isn't there. Nothing more.
F42 is the PCR relay fuse. Without it, the PCM doesn't have any idea that it's 'open PCR' command hasn't taken place.

Someone said that there is plenty of notifications that the ESS is going to fail. Would this failure cause electrical Gremlins in the electrical dash components?. I am getting a ESS Warning and I am losing my rear camera, gear indicator for my manual transmission, and have the ESS warning light on. It comes on after about a mile down the road.
Thanks,
David

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Someone said that there is plenty of notifications that the ESS is going to fail. Would this failure cause electrical Gremlins in the electrical dash components?. I am getting a ESS Warning and I am losing my rear camera, gear indicator for my manual transmission, and have the ESS warning light on. It comes on after about a mile down the road.
Thanks,
David

Get a cheap volt meter from Walmart or whatever ($20??) and with truck off - check your battery voltage.
I'd check shortly after shutting it off, then again after sitting over-night.
I'd bet you have a battery low voltage problem.

 

[Lunentucker]

Someone said that there is plenty of notifications that the ESS is going to fail. Would this failure cause electrical Gremlins in the electrical dash components?. I am getting a ESS Warning and I am losing my rear camera, gear indicator for my manual transmission, and have the ESS warning light on. It comes on after about a mile down the road.
Thanks,
David

Many have said that those kinds of activities have preceded a complete failure on one or both batteries.
As mentioned above, check voltage.
But ideally you'd want to separate the two batteries, because they act as one except when ESS is active, and check them that way, preferably after charging both for several hours if you have a charger.

 

[ericnewcom]

Someone said that there is plenty of notifications that the ESS is going to fail. Would this failure cause electrical Gremlins in the electrical dash components?. I am getting a ESS Warning and I am losing my rear camera, gear indicator for my manual transmission, and have the ESS warning light on. It comes on after about a mile down the road.
Thanks,
David

Have you changed tire size, axel gears or anything else that will change the final drive ratio? If so, do you have a tazer? You'll need to perform the calibration mentioned in the tazer manual.

 

[Smokey Mtn]

Have you changed tire size, axel gears or anything else that will change the final drive ratio? If so, do you have a tazer? You'll need to perform the calibration mentioned in the tazer manual.

I did change tire size from 33 to 35's. I did purchase a Tazer and have used it to set the 35" tires, however, I did just have a shop regear to 4.88 for the 35's. They used an hp tuner ( I think), while the Tazer was active. So I am not sure if the tuners did not correlate, or if the ESS was on its way out simultaneously.
Thanks,
David

 

[Smokey Mtn]

Get a cheap volt meter from Walmart or whatever ($20??) and with truck off - check your battery voltage.
I'd check shortly after shutting it off, then again after sitting over-night.
I'd bet you have a battery low voltage problem.

I will check voltage tomorrow to see if it is acceptable.

 

[Wolf Island Diver]

That is internet hysteria that just keeps getting spread by the uninformed. The vehicle gives you plenty of indication that the batteries need attention before it gets to that point.

Yes and no. The original sin isn’t the aux battery. It’s cheap oem batteries generally. But I didn’t get much of a warning. I started seeing less ESS availability within a month of buying the truck and within a month of having new batteries installed under warranty, but it’s a subtle, gradual decrease. Still that’s pretty interesting observation I’ve seen with 2 sets of batteries. By the time I started having other symptoms ESS rarely worked. But again, it was a gradual decrease in availability over more than a year.

When the batteries went, there were very few symptoms. I had a warning about the Aux switch availability that would go away after about 5-10 minutes of driving. My dealership said they needed more evidence of an issue before pulling the batteries to test them under warranty. The aux switch issue didn’t really change in frequency until the truck was just dead one morning. Although it wasn’t just dead. Instead the truck went nuts. All the lights were flashing and the wipers were continuously running, shredding my nice new jet spray blades. Uconnect would work, but not the FOB to unlock the truck. I had to disconnect the batteries to get the lights and wipers to stop. The truck wouldn’t take enough charge from 2 jump packs or cables from the flatbed. We had to push it across my yard and then winch it onto the flatbed. FCA “free” roadside is $120 minimum for this service. Thankfully GEICO is free with my premiums. All in all it was a major pain in the ass. If this had happened off road, it could have been major $$$. If the failure had occurred 1 day earlier it would have been below freezing and might have resulted in a frozen DEF system. It’s hard to know since some things worked and some things didn’t with dead batteries.

Both batteries tested bad. The failure caused ECU issues, so they did a reflash. The techs have told me ECU flashes result in a bricked unit enough they FCA no longer pays for updates or reflashes even for TSBs absent documented symptoms. They had to keep the truck for 2 days. My dealership’s service director said ESS malfunctions and aux and main battery issues are by far most common warranty issue on the Gladiator that they deal with the and he recommended I disable ESS and remove the aux battery. The techs hate the system.

My personal view is that the problems are probably worse on the diesel because it has systems that run all the time like the DEF tank heater. That being said, if people run high quality batteries and get the truck checked out at the very first sign of issues then they will probably be okay. I was stuck in a catch-22 where the symptoms weren’t considered bad enough by my dealership until it was dead. My recommendation is to lie to the dealership so they pull the batteries. Also if someone doesn’t drive the diesel every day, leave it on a tender. I personally don’t have an issue with ESS and this trucks activation is less intrusive than other makes. After getting new batteries, ESS worked like a champ at pretty much every stop but within a month I was already seeing “ESS unavailable” with increasing frequency. I was planning on keeping it for a while, since I had 2 new batteries, but I removed the it because I overland the truck and I don’t like having batteries of different sizes in a bank. If within a month ESS isn’t even going to activate 50% of the time, then the system is more liability than utility. Other folks mileage may vary.

I agree though that the Aux battery isn’t some existential threat that has to be jettisoned as soon as you drive off the lot.

 

[ericnewcom]

I did change tire size from 33 to 35's. I did purchase a Tazer and have used it to set the 35" tires, however, I did just have a shop regear to 4.88 for the 35's. They used an hp tuner ( I think), while the Tazer was active. So I am not sure if the tuners did not correlate, or if the ESS was on its way out simultaneously.
Thanks,
David

Look at the manual transmission supplement.
https://www.zautomotive.com/product/z_tzr_jlm/#camera-kit

The procedure:
1. Set your tire size through the engine-off Vehicle Settings menu according to the manual for
your Tazer. Find the manual for your device here: https://www.zautomotive.com/instructions/
2. Perform a “Full Reboot” using the menu option in the engine-off Vehicle Settings menu.
3. Disconnect the negative terminal on both your primary and AUX batteries for one minute.
4. Connect your batteries, set the ignition to RUN with the engine off and perform TWO SLEEP
CYCLES as described on the “Critical Information” page of the manual for your Tazer.
5. For the relearn to take, you must accelerate to highway speed (40-80 MPH) and enter sixth
gear while maintaining some accelerator pedal pressure (without decelerating) for about
30 seconds.
6. Once finished with the drive, set the ignition to RUN with the engine off and TWO MORE SLEEP
CYCLES as described on the Critical Information page of the manual.

 

[Smokey Mtn]

Look at the manual transmission supplement.
https://www.zautomotive.com/product/z_tzr_jlm/#camera-kit

The procedure:
1. Set your tire size through the engine-off Vehicle Settings menu according to the manual for
your Tazer. Find the manual for your device here: https://www.zautomotive.com/instructions/
2. Perform a “Full Reboot” using the menu option in the engine-off Vehicle Settings menu.
3. Disconnect the negative terminal on both your primary and AUX batteries for one minute.
4. Connect your batteries, set the ignition to RUN with the engine off and perform TWO SLEEP
CYCLES as described on the “Critical Information” page of the manual for your Tazer.
5. For the relearn to take, you must accelerate to highway speed (40-80 MPH) and enter sixth
gear while maintaining some accelerator pedal pressure (without decelerating) for about
30 seconds.
6. Once finished with the drive, set the ignition to RUN with the engine off and TWO MORE SLEEP
CYCLES as described on the Critical Information page of the manual.

Thanks for the info. I apparently didn't see the battery disconnect part. I did everything else (1,2, and 3). The acceleration might be a little tricky to navigate the warranty issues with the new gear break in schedule.
But I will get it done.

 

[ericnewcom]

Thanks for the info. I apparently didn't see the battery disconnect part. I did everything else (1,2, and 3). The acceleration might be a little tricky to navigate the warranty issues with the new gear break in schedule.
But I will get it done.

NP

When I regeared mine I had the same symptoms the relearn procedure fixed mine. I took it easy on mine during the break in (no fast starts ect) but the gradual acceleration from 40 to 80 didn't concern me.

 

[bucolic]

LOL, sorry, but not that again.
No, you won't. I've posted interviews with designers, engineers, and actual real starter people.
these have been in use since 2015, many now have hundreds of thousands of miles on them.
There's no problem.
These are not your grandfather's FoMoCo 4.5" direct drive field coil starter with bronze bushings for bearings and copper commutators (I work on starters, restoration)
These were introduced (with ESS) in 2015 for the 2016 model year. That means they have been on the road for 8 years, starting with Grand Cherokees and others, introduced into Wrangler in about 2018, and now the Gladiator starting in 2019 for the 2020 model year.
There's a long history with them, a lot of miles in many different vehicles- Wrangler, Gladiator, Challenger, Grand Cherokee and more.
No, there won't be starter troubles beyond what is normal for electric devices.
Too much BS "information" out there.
Just sayin' - as a person involved with starters and who has studied the progress of starters over the years, including these.

I can see how someone would think the starter would wear out quicker, constantly starting at every stoplight. I have no doubt they are designed to last, and the engineers have thought it through.

Now I had a Dodge Ram etorque with the auto start and stop, and it was a very smooth system and practically invisible when it started and stopped. The belt-driven start stop applied directly to the crankshaft was slick ( I think that is how it worked). The system on the Gladiator (and most other vehicles) just seems lazy compared to that (yes, I am sure cost has something to do with it also if not the main reason).

It's more the annoying sound of the starter at every light than worrying about the starter wearing out that bothers me. I hear some other cars start up at a light next to me from their auto stop/start system, and I could swear a 1979 Pinto is starting up next to me!

They put a man on the moon in the 60's with flip switches and dials, and this is the best the engineers can do 60 years later? Well, actually, they can. The Dodge etorque system shows it can be done, and there is nothing that can't be improved. So if they wanted to spend the R&D dollars, I'm sure it could be engineered to be even more unnoticeable.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

etorque is a very different animal. It's a sort of hybrid and can't be compared to a straight ICE driven vehicle. There's reasons the JT doesn't have that yet.
It's really beyond the scope of a forum post or 10.
It's got a 48 volt battery pack, significantly more weight. Fine for a Ram truck, but not so fine for a Jeep Gladiator thinking of payload and towing (at least not until or unless the technology changes)
People complain about the lines under the Wrangler being exposed and too easily damaged.
When they made the 4xe Wrangler, they had to add some massive shielding under there.

The ESS on mine works pretty smoothly and silently.
The PCM tracks the exact position of every piston, every valve, and exactly when each injector fired and more - the ESS restarts are a fraction of any other type of start. I can't see them being compared to a pinto or another other legacy engine and starter combo.
They do an ESS restart with minimal load on anything.

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