Aux battery delete???

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[Jeeperjamie]

First thing I did after purchasing my new to me JTM was delete the POS ESS setup. Pulled the aux batt, pulled F42, and purchased a new main batt.
It was “Jeep Certified” used, but both batteries were crap. Of course the dealership said bring it in, let us look at it. Um…….NO! Been there, done that.
Anyway, Just installed this thing in my new (used) JTM. To soon for long term review, but I love it so far! Works as advertised. Thanks for the link.

I guess you know more than a jeep engineer does. I heard there hiring. These post are laughable!

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Yeah, the solution - when batteries are crap - replace them with high capacity, quality batteries. Problem solved.

 

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[Jeeperjamie]

I don’t know more than engineers, but I do know the ESS system is crap and unnecessary.
Never had a dealership replace both batteries and show me how great it is because I can’t find a competent service department to “fix” it correctly. I’m not going to replace both with my money and take a chance that the ESS works long term only to find that the batteries die a year later. I took a chance that eliminating ESS and paying for one battery would work. That has proven itself on my first JT and I’m confident it will prove itself on this JT.
Yes, I tried several dealers. How many dealers and how much of MY time do I wast letting them prove how great it is?
My all time favorite is - You don’t drive it enough. Dumb diagnoses like that are a joke!
Both of my JT’s work perfectly after eliminating the aux batt and not using the ESS. In other words, if it’s because of bad batteries or bad engineering of the ESS system. The ESS is crap because it’s never worked correctly.
Jeep, if you’re hiring I would be interested in R&D.
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Sounds like you know what your talking about, 85,000 miles on mine and it works as it should. Still rocking the same small battery. Who knows, my neighbor has close to 130,000 miles on his small battery. Sounds like a dealership issue to me rather than a jeep engineering issue but we are all probably right!

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I don’t know more than engineers, but I do know the ESS system is crap and unnecessary.

LOL - that's saying you know more than engineers.

The ESS is crap because it’s never worked correctly.

Wow, multiple Jeeps with ESS, starting with 2016 Grand Cherokee - it works fine, seamlessly.
My only problem was that our Jeeps sometimes sit long enough the battery goes down and the short drives never get it charged back up properly - keep cycling like that and you eventually get batteries that won't hold a full charge and lose capacity. Couple that with cheap batteries from the factory, you will have issues.
I totally resolved my 2020's issues by charging both batteries independently and resetting the IBS - things worked fine after that.
Even our 4xe has 12v battery voltage issues since it sits so much. I expect short battery life from it (and there's no ESS in a 4xe so no, it's not due to ESS)

Put high capacity, high quality batteries in it, drive it (or keep the batteries charged over 12.4 volts) and they'll last a long long time and everything will work as intended.

My all time favorite is - You don’t drive it enough. Dumb diagnoses like that are a joke!

Sorry, but it's a fact. I'll pit my battery knowledge and experience against the illogical hate out there.
Any battery expert will tell you the same things, and I've posted quotes from battery sites on this very thing.
The longer a battery sits at partial charge, the more resistant it is to being fully charged, and it loses some capacity. If the input never matches the output, it will slowly reach a point where it can't easily (if ever) be fully charged and will lose capacity. There's parasitic draw on these, plus the inherent self-discharge of batteries (although AGM are better, cheap AGM aren't much better than flooded cell batteries).
We're reaching a point on our 4xe where it's taking longer and longer and longer to get that battery up to a full charge. My BatteryMinder will no longer do it in 24 hours like it used to, so if I remember it, I put my NAPA charger on it - it still takes a few hours.
It had been sitting for only a week - and was at 12.1 volts. Took hours to get it up to 12.8 where it belongs. There is no ESS and no aux battery so you can't blame those systems!
It's lack of use - sitting for a week at a time with parasitic drain, short drives of only 20-30 minutes - it will never be enough to fully recharge a battery, especially a COLD battery. So if it sits a week, gets driven 30 minutes, it might go from 12.1 to 12.4 volts - next time it sits a week, it's now starting out at only 12.4 volts and will be lower at next drive and so on.
A cool AGM battery at half SoC will take some serious voltage and real time to fully recharge.
Sorry, but on this, I'm on the money and you can actually find battery vendors and experts out there saying the same things.
It's a problem with many modern vehicles - not just Jeep. Batteries don't last long in modern vehicles, and cheap batteries, not driven to full charge, will crap out early.

 

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[Jeeperjamie]

Heard it all before. As we all have many, many times on this forum. It’s old and I really don’t want to hash it out with you. You are correct, I am wrong. I am not engineer. I only play one here.
My uneducated opinion is the system is crap…….I mean, unnecessary and doesn’t work correctly……crap. Not having ESS works better for me.
Thank you again to the original post that I commented on for the link to the ESS cable. It works great!

This forum is a small fraction of Jeep owners where most come to complain so your exactly right, you're gonna get internet engineers and a lot of complaining because it's a internet forum. People normally find these forum because they are looking for resolution to a problem and then find people on said forum to feed their ego. For most of us the ESS is a fine system that works great.

I'd the risk doesn't out weigh the gain for most people because if your jeep burns to the ground and you have modified the system and your adjuster can find any reason to deny a claim then I wouldn't want to be stuck with a useless $40,000-$60,000 vehicle. Just saying but your probably right!

 

[steelponycowboy]

I don’t know more than engineers, but I do know the ESS system is crap and unnecessary.
Never had a dealership replace both batteries and show me how great it is because I can’t find a competent service department to “fix” it correctly. I’m not going to replace both with my money and take a chance that the ESS works long term only to find that the batteries die a year later. I took a chance that eliminating ESS and paying for one battery would work. That has proven itself on my first JT and I’m confident it will prove itself on this JT.
Yes, I tried several dealers. How many dealers and how much of MY time do I wast letting them prove how great it is?
My all time favorite is - You don’t drive it enough. Dumb diagnoses like that are a joke!
Both of my JT’s work perfectly after eliminating the aux batt and not using the ESS. In other words, if it’s because of bad batteries or bad engineering of the ESS system. The ESS is crap because it’s never worked correctly.
Jeep, if you’re hiring I would be interested in R&D.
?

Yep they are crap and if you do a delete you chance getting warranty voided for anything electrical related. They did it to me and they've it to others Magnuson act be damned.

 

[PuddleJumper]

LOL - that's saying you know more than engineers.

The longer a battery sits at partial charge, the more resistant it is to being fully charged, and it loses some capacity. If the input never matches the output, it will slowly reach a point where it can't easily (if ever) be fully charged and will lose capacity. There's parasitic draw on these, plus the inherent self-discharge of batteries (although AGM are better, cheap AGM aren't much better than flooded cell batteries).
We're reaching a point on our 4xe where it's taking longer and longer and longer to get that battery up to a full charge. My BatteryMinder will no longer do it in 24 hours like it used to, so if I remember it, I put my NAPA charger on it - it still takes a few hours.
It had been sitting for only a week - and was at 12.1 volts. Took hours to get it up to 12.8 where it belongs. There is no ESS and no aux battery so you can't blame those systems!
It's lack of use - sitting for a week at a time with parasitic drain, short drives of only 20-30 minutes - it will never be enough to fully recharge a battery, especially a COLD battery. So if it sits a week, gets driven 30 minutes, it might go from 12.1 to 12.4 volts - next time it sits a week, it's now starting out at only 12.4 volts and will be lower at next drive and so on.
A cool AGM battery at half SoC will take some serious voltage and real time to fully recharge.
Sorry, but on this, I'm on the money and you can actually find battery vendors and experts out there saying the same things.
It's a problem with many modern vehicles - not just Jeep. Batteries don't last long in modern vehicles, and cheap batteries, not driven to full charge, will crap out early.

Isn't this called "cell memory". Its been awhile since I've worked with DC system but thats what i remember it being called. I leave my ESS alone. it works very well and i have had no issues with the stock batteries. i appreciate the marginal amount off gas it saves me in all the long traffic lights around DC.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Yep they are crap and if you do a delete you chance getting warranty voided for anything electrical related. They did it to me and they've it to others Magnuson act be damned.

That act, which gets constantly thrown out there without having actually been read in detail as originally written, has nothing to do with outright modifications and removal of equipment or changes to electrical systems. It covers replacement parts. You can replace the Jeep batteries with superior batteries and as long as the specs are met - they can't say anything, but go pulling out parts, defeating or deleting, and it's now a modification, not a replacement part.
Very different.
You can buy memory for your computer from a non-OEM source but you can't go cutting traces on the system board to change operation.
You can swap mufflers, tires, brake pads and so on, as long as they at least meet minimum specs, but you can't go cutting or removing wires or cutting pipes and expect warranty.
I can buy a good quality replacement filter from Amazon instead of a MOPAR branded filter, but can't take the filter box out and slap on a cone filter on the throttle body and then gripe if I have issues.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Isn't this called "cell memory". Its been awhile since I've worked with DC system but thats what i remember it being called. I leave my ESS alone. it works very well and i have had no issues with the stock batteries. i appreciate the marginal amount off gas it saves me in all the long traffic lights around DC.

These don't develop a memory like that, it's a different process.

From one site -
discharging and leaving the battery discharged can cause harm and shorten life in AGM batteries. Have you heard about sulfation? It's not pretty stuff. Riding your vehicle often, can keep the battery in top condition. If you're not going to use the battery for a week or more at a time, we highly recommend a charger maintainer (also called a trickle charger) to keep the battery from discharging

And from another site on batteries and the EXACT thing I've been talking about -

By now, many sailors have enjoyed their first long weekend on the boat this year, and some may have noticed that the expensive absorbed glass mat (AGM) battery they bought last season or the year before isn’t holding a charge like it did when new. There are many things that can lead to reduced battery capacity in an AGM battery, but most often the cause is due to poor maintenance and charging regimen.

Battery manufacturers want their batteries recharged to 100-percent state of charge after each discharge. In reality, few cruising boats (or any boats kept on a mooring) return their batteries to 100-percent state of charge after each cycle. This typical battery use, or abuse, is called partial state of charge operation, and if it continues, a sailor can see his AGM battery perform noticeably worse than a less costly, deep-cycle flooded battery bank. This isn’t the battery’s fault; it is just a lack of understanding of how to properly care for an AGM battery.

and from the same people, exactly as I said -

Here are some tips that came out of our test that can help you prolong the life of your AGM battery.

Charge to full as often as possible, this point cannot be over emphasized.
Get back to at least 80-85 percent state of charge (full capacity) with each charge cycle and get to 100 percent state of charge as soon as you can thereafter.

12.4 volts is NOT 80%. In fact, it's more like 60-65% depending on the battery. This means if you are not getting back up to 12.5 or better, you are leaving it under 80% and shortening its life.

And yet most people complaining of "Jeep's systems suck" are doing exactly what's talked about above- never fully charging, only ever partially charging.
I wonder - if everyone went out right now with a good volt meter and measured - what would the voltage be? (considering that it's still got a bit of a load on it so a 12.5 may actually be 12.6 if disconnected from ground)
I'd bet those blaming ESS are actually doing exactly what two battery expert sites are saying to not do - that's only ever partially charging the batteries, never getting back up to 100%.
I wonder why my batteries last longer and I don't have so many problems.........

 

[PuddleJumper]

These don't develop a memory like that, it's a different process.

From one site -
discharging and leaving the battery discharged can cause harm and shorten life in AGM batteries. Have you heard about sulfation? It's not pretty stuff. Riding your vehicle often, can keep the battery in top condition. If you're not going to use the battery for a week or more at a time, we highly recommend a charger maintainer (also called a trickle charger) to keep the battery from discharging

And from another site on batteries and the EXACT thing I've been talking about -

By now, many sailors have enjoyed their first long weekend on the boat this year, and some may have noticed that the expensive absorbed glass mat (AGM) battery they bought last season or the year before isn’t holding a charge like it did when new. There are many things that can lead to reduced battery capacity in an AGM battery, but most often the cause is due to poor maintenance and charging regimen.

Battery manufacturers want their batteries recharged to 100-percent state of charge after each discharge. In reality, few cruising boats (or any boats kept on a mooring) return their batteries to 100-percent state of charge after each cycle. This typical battery use, or abuse, is called partial state of charge operation, and if it continues, a sailor can see his AGM battery perform noticeably worse than a less costly, deep-cycle flooded battery bank. This isn’t the battery’s fault; it is just a lack of understanding of how to properly care for an AGM battery.

and from the same people, exactly as I said -

Here are some tips that came out of our test that can help you prolong the life of your AGM battery.

Charge to full as often as possible, this point cannot be over emphasized.
Get back to at least 80-85 percent state of charge (full capacity) with each charge cycle and get to 100 percent state of charge as soon as you can thereafter.

12.4 volts is NOT 80%. In fact, it's more like 60-65% depending on the battery. This means if you are not getting back up to 12.5 or better, you are leaving it under 80% and shortening its life.

And yet most people complaining of "Jeep's systems suck" are doing exactly what's talked about above- never fully charging, only ever partially charging.
I wonder - if everyone went out right now with a good volt meter and measured - what would the voltage be? (considering that it's still got a bit of a load on it so a 12.5 may actually be 12.6 if disconnected from ground)
I'd bet those blaming ESS are actually doing exactly what two battery expert sites are saying to not do - that's only ever partially charging the batteries, never getting back up to 100%.
I wonder why my batteries last longer and I don't have so many problems.........

That makes a lot of sense. thanks for the lesson. Last time i put a meter on my primary better it was 12.8 resting. so i think im good. I drive a lot though.

 

[JTGuy]

I have a Tazer to kill the ESS and I like it. But I'll let the ESS test itself now and then just for warranty sake. When the batteries fail I will replace both of them. I have a 7 year warranty and plan to keep it. My other mods should be OK. I wonder about. adding a trail cam. I know the ESS is a pain but it's change. So I deal with it or go find a old CJ5. The more you mess with stuff the more problems you can add.

 

[Lost1wing]

I don't like ESS either. That type of technology is here to stay I'm afraid. Embrace it, understand it and maintain it. Really, you only have to maintain it. I think the lame engineers are part of the problem. They gave us a dedicated page on our display to tell us what ESS is telling us. Hardly anyone uses this information. We wait for the dreaded symbol on the display to appear or the aux switches to stop working or the heated seats and steering wheel stops heating. They should have a message stating charge your battery.

We park our Jeeps for weeks at a time allowing the batteries to drain, ESS gets the blame When there's a no start. It's not ESS to blame, it's our lack of understanding of how it works. Engineering failure for sure. They failed to educate the people and make them aware of the more sophisticated electronics our vehicles now have. Why have ESS on a Jeep anyway? I'm sure there are some here that use it only on the weekend. Then they take it out wheeling it gets disabled by design.

There are people who prefer to drive a Jeep as a daily driver. Look at the mileage some have already and have no complaints with ESS. I'm afraid those people are who the engineers designed the ESS for and not the weekend warriors.

I keep ESS functional.
I don't use it.
I wish I didn't have to pay for the research and development or the related components involved with ESS.
It is what it is.

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