Axle rating

[PuddleJumper]

It's not weight - as that will vary greatly with the vehicle it's under. You can have a Dana 44 220 under a chevy with heavier weight ratings.

ok, color me confused. OP asked axle weight rating, so idk what a colorado has to do with this. Also forums saying its ring size but then contradicting themselves with a different true size makes me doubt everything. 215mm or 8.5" isnt 220mm, so what stretch was made by Scott to line that up? not trying to be rude but this seems like "hey these numbers are close, so thats how it is". If you look at the official Dana Spicer doc (i'm pretty sure its attached somewhere above), they state how to properly read their code stamping and naming scheme. 8.5" being in the ball park of 220mm just seem like coincidence, unless Dana somehow makes ring gear size match capacity in a weird way. And yes I'm aware that a stand alone axle doesn't equate to a trucks payload or tires capacity. Anyway my take away is, Dana says M220 means a 22,000lb capacity and M axle family. So Scott with a Bronco (eww) didn't fully read that spicer catalog he's referencing.

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[PuddleJumper]

I'm going to guess the OP was looking more for the GAWR, which is on the driver's door jamb sticker. In that case a JTRD would be 3400 lb front and 3750 lb rear. As for Dana's rating, I'm curious in what application would allow use of a 22,000 lb weight rating?

maybe but he did say axle. 22'000lbs isn't much of stretch. It could be a static rating and not dynamic. Besides Hilux and patrols in other countries just have 1 ton springs on smaller axles and haul well at and over 22,000. we just live in the land of massive safety margin. Which i don't mind, as it drastically decreases the odds of one accidently loading their truck to its true failure point. I'll never complain about having an overrated full float axle on a 4x4 factory.

 

[PuddleJumper]

Gotcha. So if it is 22k, what does that help you do beyond the sticker rating?

springs and tires. But 22k won't be the max on a gladiator. How its dressed up affects the end product rating. a Dana M220 with leaf springs will mostly likely have a much higher end capacity that a 4 link coil setup will. But in our cases, you got more than you'll ever need so just do tires, and springs and don't tell old hard asses that your outside your sticker rating.

 

[PuddleJumper]

Im just looking for realistic numbers for my full up traveling weight with my camper and gear. I know my Jeep won’t explode if it’s a few pounds over, and manufacturers usually are conservative with numbers. But I also want to look at longevity and wear and tear etc. I’ve towed my camper all over no issues and well with in weight limits, as I add items to the bed it will max out.

there's not really a way to add weight to rig and stay within its original wear and tear rate. Sadly Jeep aftermarket doesn't seem to rate springs like Toyota aftermarket does. Toyota u can literally go buy springs that state 2in lift +600lb static load capacity. which is nice. I'd talk to whomever you plan on getting springs from and they should be able to help you find the springs you need to run heavy. the downside here being, it ride like ass when it isn't heavy.

 

[PuddleJumper]

Best bet is to actually go by the numbers on the sticker.
Sounds like you are looking for better numbers to justify more weight??? perhaps?

your "know" that manufacturers are conservative with numbers - and by how much?

What they will handle will vary by the exact axle as made for the auto company buying them.

Don't obsess over it - use those numbers on the sticker. If you "must" carry more weight, you got the wrong vehicle.

woah, he's not trying to pull a tractor trailer with it. A couple extra hundred lbs especially with the right aftermarket springs and it'll be fine. Its not gonna explode the second you go 6oz over sticker. we may have different and stricter rules here, but the sticker doesn't dictate mechanical limit. Its just what the law based off our standards say the limit is. there's smaller trucks with even smaller c clip axles overseas that haul way more than an F450s capacity here. Its not as black and white as a sticker. As long as you know your assuming full responsibility and consequences entailed of going over sticker. I don't see an issue with it. Lets be honest most midsize pickups in America can tow and stop well over 8k safely with the right driver. The outlier here in the states is to cover the weakest link, i.e. the dumbest driver. If everyone is limited to that capacity, risk is minimized and you can sell more oversized trucks.

 

[chorky]

there's not really a way to add weight to rig and stay within its original wear and tear rate. Sadly Jeep aftermarket doesn't seem to rate springs like Toyota aftermarket does. Toyota u can literally go buy springs that state 2in lift +600lb static load capacity. which is nice. I'd talk to whomever you plan on getting springs from and they should be able to help you find the springs you need to run heavy. the downside here being, it ride like ass when it isn't heavy.

Those springs Toyota offers does not change the sticker though. It just specifies what the springs are designed to handle. Just like what AEV does. I believe the MOPAR springs are also designed to handle some additional weight, they just dont publicize it. By saying +600 pounds, without a disclaimer Toyota could land themselves in a court battle if there was a bad situation. Also note that AEV rates their springs +400 or +700 depending on the spring option, but they also include a disclaimer of not exceeding GVW. So it kinda goes against itself. Basically they designed a spring to haul extra weight knowing people will do it but by also saying don't do it for legal reasons.

woah, he's not trying to pull a tractor trailer with it. A couple extra hundred lbs especially with the right aftermarket springs and it'll be fine. Its not gonna explode the second you go 6oz over sticker. we may have different and stricter rules here, but the sticker doesn't dictate mechanical limit. Its just what the law based off our standards say the limit is. there's smaller trucks with even smaller c clip axles overseas that haul way more than an F450s capacity here. Its not as black and white as a sticker. As long as you know your assuming full responsibility and consequences entailed of going over sticker. I don't see an issue with it. Lets be honest most midsize pickups in America can tow and stop well over 8k safely with the right driver. The outlier here in the states is to cover the weakest link, i.e. the dumbest driver. If everyone is limited to that capacity, risk is minimized and you can sell more oversized trucks.

I think the legal aspect was Bills point on this. Not the mechanical. Some places require state inspections every year and I think weighing the vehicle is part of that inspection for some areas. Totally stupid IMO, but that's the 'law' like it or not. Same with the sticker GVW. I don't know of anyone actually thrown the book at other than commercial drivers, but if someone really wanted to, they could sue and win if a vehicle was weighed and over the sticker GVW. Its law. I think it's pathetic, but that's the law. Even if a overweight vehicle was 'not at fault' and then weighed, I bet they would be stuck with the full cost of all parties involved, and insurance would have a 'out' as well. It would be a sucker situation. So going over GVW is a calculated risk for those doing it.

 

[PuddleJumper]

Those springs Toyota offers does not change the sticker though. It just specifies what the springs are designed to handle. Just like what AEV does. I believe the MOPAR springs are also designed to handle some additional weight, they just dont publicize it. By saying +600 pounds, without a disclaimer Toyota could land themselves in a court battle if there was a bad situation. Also note that AEV rates their springs +400 or +700 depending on the spring option, but they also include a disclaimer of not exceeding GVW. So it kinda goes against itself. Basically they designed a spring to haul extra weight knowing people will do it but by also saying don't do it for legal reasons.




I think the legal aspect was Bills point on this. Not the mechanical. Some places require state inspections every year and I think weighing the vehicle is part of that inspection for some areas. Totally stupid IMO, but that's the 'law' like it or not. Same with the sticker GVW. I don't know of anyone actually thrown the book at other than commercial drivers, but if someone really wanted to, they could sue and win if a vehicle was weighed and over the sticker GVW. Its law. I think it's pathetic, but that's the law. Even if a overweight vehicle was 'not at fault' and then weighed, I bet they would be stuck with the full cost of all parties involved, and insurance would have a 'out' as well. It would be a sucker situation. So going over GVW is a calculated risk for those doing it.

toyota doesn't offer those spring. the aftermarket does. Im aware it doesn't change the sticker. I'm just saying its easier to shop for what you need. not everyone wants a lift but still wants more capacity. No one is going to state that you can operate outside your GVW for reasons you've stated. I live in VA and while we have annual inspections, they don't weigh. I wouldn't bring my truck in fully loaded though. I also feel like we miss the point of GVW. GROSS vehicle weight, not EXACT vehicle weight. in my mind this allows leeway and simplifies rating for manufacturers. I don't think you could realistically void coverage from insurance if you were say 300 lbs over. it wont be obviously visible and odds are no one will take the time to tow a totaled truck to a scale. GVWR is rough ball park which allows a few hundred pounds of wiggle room in my book. your insurance will still cover you if you were in an accident and going 5 over. the speed limit is an undisputable number and we break it every day. so a GROSS number should be given just as much breathing room if not more. just my 2 cents.


My main point i like to make sure everyone gets. Sticker limit doesn't equate mechanical limit, and shouldn't doesn't mean can't.

 

[AwesomeDad]

woah, he's not trying to pull a tractor trailer with it. A couple extra hundred lbs especially with the right aftermarket springs and it'll be fine. Its not gonna explode the second you go 6oz over sticker. we may have different and stricter rules here, but the sticker doesn't dictate mechanical limit. Its just what the law based off our standards say the limit is. there's smaller trucks with even smaller c clip axles overseas that haul way more than an F450s capacity here. Its not as black and white as a sticker. As long as you know your assuming full responsibility and consequences entailed of going over sticker. I don't see an issue with it. Lets be honest most midsize pickups in America can tow and stop well over 8k safely with the right driver. The outlier here in the states is to cover the weakest link, i.e. the dumbest driver. If everyone is limited to that capacity, risk is minimized and you can sell more oversized trucks.

Exactly, Ive been on RV forums for years and eventually will get a slide in truck camper hopefully on a 5500 chassis cab(some campers are pushing 5K dry). And you should read all the people that don’t research and go to the scales for the first time and find out they are 1500lbs or more over weight. I’m not trying to compare our gladiators with 1ton plus rigs, but even they deal with the same issue just in a larger scale. I’m simple wanting deal with a couple hundred lbs from time to time. I’ve also been over seas and seen what they do with a Hilux ???

JJ

 

[kevman65]

The 2.5 to 1 Safety Factor (actually it's 3 to 1) comes from industrial rigging and has to do with straps, cable chokers, clevis, shackles, load cable, blocks, hooks, or anything else used to rig loads. It also is applied to PPE such as a body harness, lanyard, retractable, end hooks, safety catches.

I've seen throughout my rigging books, OSHA standards, company safety data sheets, yadda yadda yadda.

Now, the Feds have standards that if a manufacturer says a product can handle XXX pounds, then it shouldn't fail until XXXX pounds. In my QA/QC workings I never had to deal with those specs, so I can NOT give a definitive answer.

So, is there a Safety Factor? Yes.

Can I point anyone to where it's stated? No.

 

[mrmo]

Gotcha. So if it is 22k, what does that help you do beyond the sticker rating?

22k?? thats what the front axle of my F750 dumptruck us rated, so how can that be

 

[PuddleJumper]

Exactly, Ive been on RV forums for years and eventually will get a slide in truck camper hopefully on a 5500 chassis cab(some campers are pushing 5K dry). And you should read all the people that don’t research and go to the scales for the first time and find out they are 1500lbs or more over weight. I’m not trying to compare our gladiators with 1ton plus rigs, but even they deal with the same issue just in a larger scale. I’m simple wanting deal with a couple hundred lbs from time to time. I’ve also been over seas and seen what they do with a Hilux ???

JJ

I am guilty of actually towing well over sticker cus I didn't even know it existed. I was younger had my first half ton truck and hooked up 15k to the back of it and went about my day. No one stopped me or said anything. drove 18 hrs that way over mountains. went fine and I didn't think anything of it. Till i did learn about the stickers. and when i checked that half ton. 8500 max tow capacity ?. welp too late now. definitely won't do it again tho.

 

[PuddleJumper]

22k?? thats what the front axle of my F750 dumptruck us rated, so how can that be

thats just the Dana numbers. and it may just be static. plus your F750 axle is probably rated higher. that 22k is just what its rated with the whole truck configured on it. its probably more like 56k if if you look up your axle rating by the manufacturer

 

[ShadowsPapa]

There is a reality out there that if you are over limits and in an accident and someone sues, you can be found liable for damages (and possibly lose insurance)
That information came directly from an IHP training officer who has actually seen it.
Yes, the investigations are that thorough. They have stats for almost everything, as I learned after not only a major accident I was in, but after the accident that killed my father - they can tell a lot by the tire marks left on the pavement. Even weight and speed. The stats they have access to in today's age of instant technology is crazy.
They knew the exact speed the kid was going when he hit my father and his truck based on damage and other factors - including tire marks (and at times, lack of)
They don't have to pick up all the pieces and take them to a scale these days.
I watched as an IHP trooper used his computer to simulate what happened in the accident that killed our father. It was amazing stuff. It was supported by the tech in the vehicle and the testimony of the kid who was driving (kid, ok, he was 21, but not all that mature for 21)

Ratings are also only going to go so far - have to make some emergency maneuver, those weights increase by huge amounts - physics come into play. They might hold a static load of xx pounds, but when there's a jounce or sudden stop, that force increases (and thus likely the reason for fudge factors)

I know the macho and bragger types like to show off how much they haul and how they've done it for years and how they've never broken a truck or any part of one and on and on - but the rest of us have to share those roads, and often they'll be the first to bitch about warranty or those faulty engineers.
Trucks seem to bring in the huffing and puffing and "Screw the specs, I know I can haul more because I do it" types.

Where I'm the type where if my wife or family member is injured by such a type - they'll lose the truck and most of whatever else they own - or at least be in court for years fighting it.

If you need more capacity, buy a fuckin' truck!

 

[kevman65]

That's the big problem.

Everyone wants the capacity of a one ton truck, but nobody wants a truck that big or pay the price for it.

 

[DarthAWM]

22k?? thats what the front axle of my F750 dumptruck us rated, so how can that be

I'm pretty sure that rating id for commercial truck axles that happen to share a manufacturer and naming system with our Jeep axles, except that the 210 and 220 in those are the weight rating vs the Rig diameter in ours. the give away is the dual speed note. no way a 220mm ring gear would be part of a two speed axle.

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