Broken Frame

[SoK66]

It is easily avoidable in this scenario. You're putting passengers out in the open and then building a half ass "cage" to protect them. If the cage was built correctly with frame tie ins at the A,B,C pillars and at the rear of the truck there's no chance you'd bend the frame even if you tripled the weight rating. Just 1 more reason I won't be taking any tours in these home built rigs any time soon. A fake cage is disgraceful and good forbid you have a real accident with passengers back there. Hope the insurance policy is massive.

Thank you for your helpful input. Would you mind letting me know your engineering qualifications? I'd like to pass your comments and contact info on to our fabricator.

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[Zachanadandy]

Thank you for your helpful input. Would you mind letting me know your engineering qualifications? I'd like to pass your comments and contact info on to our fabricator.

You don't need to be an engineer to understand proper cage design? It's not like there's a million books on the subject available on the same devices we post to this forum from? A cage should be tied into the frame with a structural hoop above every passenger compartment period. Being you turn these Gladiators into a giant passenger compartment with a much higher center of gravity you'd think you'd want proper protection of your paying customers (the frame not bending would just be an added benefit of a proper cage)? There should at minimum be a hoop at the front and rear of the bed tied into the frame and if you're going to that extent you might as well do a B Pilar hoop to further protect the front/rear seat passengers. From the looks of the bend your seating/ "cage" assembly drops in and isn't tied to the frame. It's not right and gives the illusion of safety at best.

 

[SoK66]

Ok, so you don't have any engineering qualifications I can mention when I pass on your helpful comments to the designer/fabricator?

 

[Zachanadandy]

Ok, so you don't have any engineering qualifications I can mention when I pass on your helpful comments to the designer/fabricator?

Guess how many cages in ultra4 cars, dragsters, or other off road vehicles were designed by engineers? Aside from the top tier million dollar race leagues...none. If you can't take constructive criticism or be bothered to even pick up a simple guide on the subject of proper care design because I'm not an engineer that's just sad. If that's your excuse for doing it wrong and not properly tong it into the frame that's bordering on criminal at this point. It's almost as bad as the pvc "roll bars" idiots were throwing in their trucks in the 80s... except people are paying you to ride back there.

 

[SoK66]

Guess how many cages in ultra4 cars, dragsters, or other off road vehicles were designed by engineers? Aside from the top tier million dollar race leagues...none. If you can't take constructive criticism or be bothered to even pick up a simple guide on the subject of proper care design because I'm not an engineer that's just sad. If that's your excuse for doing it wrong and not properly tong it into the frame that's bordering on criminal at this point. It's almost as bad as the pvc "roll bars" idiots were throwing in their trucks in the 80s... except people are paying you to ride back there.

Ok, so I’m sifting through your lengthy, helpful comments trying to find out what your engineering qualifications are and I’m concluding you don’t have any. See, the problem here, the people that did the conversions for us do.

These builds were done four and five years ago, fairly early on in the Gladiator platform lifecycle before much was known about the vehicle’s structural weaknesses. Now that we are all better informed we’ll take steps to reinforce these areas.

Have a nice day!

 

[Zachanadandy]

Ok, so I’m sifting through your lengthy, helpful comments trying to find out what your engineering qualifications are and I’m concluding you don’t have any. See, the problem here, the people that did the conversions for us do.

These builds were done four and five years ago, fairly early on in the Gladiator platform lifecycle before much was known about the vehicle’s structural weaknesses. Now that we are all better informed we’ll take steps to reinforce these areas.

Have a nice day!

It has nothing to do with the newness of the gladiator or knowing there was a weakness at the bump stop mounts. From the simplest safety hoop to the most elaborate full tube chassis anyone that's ever designed a cage to protect passengers knows that it should be tied into the frame. Unless your frame ties also failed it doesn't appear as though your "engineers" built a proper cage over the rear passengers period. Maybe they designed the seating system strong enough to hold up in a roll over, but clearly it isn't properly mounted to the truck enough to stay attached in one? What it looks like is they built it to be easy to fabricate outside the vehicle and then bolt in which isn't the right way to build a passenger cage. I wasn't trying to get in a pissing match over cage design but clearly you don't know any better and frankly neither does your builder.

 

[SoK66]

It has nothing to do with the newness of the gladiator or knowing there was a weakness at the bump stop mounts. From the simplest safety hoop to the most elaborate full tube chassis anyone that's ever designed a cage to protect passengers knows that it should be tied into the frame. Unless your frame ties also failed it doesn't appear as though your "engineers" built a proper cage over the rear passengers period. Maybe they designed the seating system strong enough to hold up in a roll over, but clearly it isn't properly mounted to the truck enough to stay attached in one? What it looks like is they built it to be easy to fabricate outside the vehicle and then bolt in which isn't the right way to build a passenger cage. I wasn't trying to get in a pissing match over cage design but clearly you don't know any better and frankly neither does your builder.

Well, clearly you are the one best informed here. Thank you for your helpful input.

 

[Zachanadandy]

Well, clearly you are the one best informed here. Thank you for your helpful input.

What Makes a Good Roll Cage?
When it comes to making a good roll cage, you need to focus on multiple factors and ensure your cage satisfies all the criteria. Some of the factors that contribute toward making a perfect roll cage are:

Legality and Eligibility – First things first, the roll cage that you are building should satisfy the legal requirements of your country or state. After that, make sure that the particular cage material and design are eligible for the purpose. For instance, different racing events have different eligibility criteria.
Material – A roll cage is all about structural integrity. Therefore, the craftsmanship, fabrication techniques, and materials will decide if it is a good roll cage or not. We will talk about the best material for a roll cage in later sections.
Contact Points – Many people make the mistake of welding the roll cage to the vehicle floor since it is the easiest thing to do. However, in the event of an accident or overturn, the vehicle floor can tear easily from the weight of the roll cage. Therefore, the best fabrication technique is to weld the roll cage to the boxed sills or frame.
Weld Quality – For maximum safety, and to make sure that the roll cage will hold together in the event of an accident and prevent injury to the driver, you need to weld it properly. For this purpose, Tungsten Inert Gas (TIG) Welding is the best way to go. However, Metal Inert Gas (MIG) Welding is also popular for welding.
Minimum Gap With Car Body – In a good roll cage, the gap between the cage bars and the car body should be as little as possible. The greater this space, the less internal space is present in the vehicle. This gap also reduces the safety protection provided by the roll cage. So make the necessary adjustments to keep this gap down to a minimum.
Don’t Forget to Paint – How will painting a roll cage make it stronger? Well, it won’t. However, painting the roll cage is going to make your vehicle a lot more aesthetically pleasing than using an unpainted roll cage with the ugly color of metal and weld splatter visible.

 

[darkhorse13]

@SoK66 thanks for including us in your journey and I hope everything gets fixed up for your rig. Out of this entire thread I did get to learn about preventative measures and I personally just ordered the Shift frame bridge yesterday to add to my build.

Also, if you're looking for new springs that will be able to confidently handle your constant weight in the rear, I highly recommend AEV High Capacity coils. Not trying to make this a spring thread but just wanted to throw out some unsolicited help DM me if you have spring questions about these AEV's.

John

 

[SoK66]

@SoK66 thanks for including us in your journey and I hope everything gets fixed up for your rig. Out of this entire thread I did get to learn about preventative measures and I personally just ordered the Shift frame bridge yesterday to add to my build.

Also, if you're looking for new springs that will be able to confidently handle your constant weight in the rear, I highly recommend AEV High Capacity coils. Not trying to make this a spring thread but just wanted to throw out some unsolicited help DM me if you have spring questions about these AEV's.

John

Thank you! We learn more as we get more input from good folks here on the Forum.

 

[bd100]

One way to think about the cage construction thing: Imagine the vehicle is upside down. The weight of much of the vehicle is resting on the cage. Assuming the cage doesn't collapse, then all that pressure is placed on the cage's mounting points. Are those mounting points strong enough to hold the weight of the vehicle? Or are they just sheet metal? Then ask the same question about a dynamic rollover situation. Now the loads go sideways, twist, bend, etc.

 

[Vtur]

Physics and some imaginations= structural engineer

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Physics and some imaginations= structural engineer

Makes you wonder how the pyramids were ever built.

 

[Maximus Gladius]

Makes you wonder how the pyramids were ever built.

You don’t know??

 

[ShadowsPapa]

You don’t know??

Well, that does explain a lot.

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