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Bronco looks legit

iammacey

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There is a lot of interest in the Bronco
Just curious, do you actually own a Jeep?

Or do you and those that think like you run amok on Jeep enthusiast forums for baiting or troll?

You just admitted in your post that SFA holds a higher 'ceiling'.

I haven't seen the hate so deep as it's been the last few years. Heck, my millennial son is a JKU owner and doesn't like my JT.

Lighten up, kids. Go buy your Bronco and enjoy it. I'll keep my Jeeps, but I don't hate you for your choice..... And I'm a SFA purist by your definition.
I'm unsure why you are so hung up on this and keep going at Lost. He's been here since early 2020, clearly has a JT, and clearly gets the value of an SFA.

His point, however, is valid. There is a vocal group that anything without an SFA is less than competent off-road and that's not true. There are, absolutely, environments where an SFA vehicle would be preferred and even required. The majority of Jeep owners do not place their vehicles in these scenarios and some of the most vocal SFA supporters never take their Jeeps there.

I understand something about his post seemed to have personally struck a nerve and that's unfortunate. I'd challenge your perception of what was said versus how you interpreted it are pretty far off.

I never understand why people can't be a huge fan of multiple vehicles. I have a Gladiator, Fiesta, and GT4. I think the Bronco looks great, is well thought out, and will perform incredibly well. I also like Land Rovers, Cruisers, McLarens, and the new Lightning. I have no desire to be defined by what I drive or to place myself in a box where I only support one manufacturer of something.
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OldButStillJeeping

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There is a lot of interest in the Bronco

I'm unsure why you are so hung up on this and keep going at Lost. He's been here since early 2020, clearly has a JT, and clearly gets the value of an SFA.

His point, however, is valid. There is a vocal group that anything without an SFA is less than competent off-road and that's not true. There are, absolutely, environments where an SFA vehicle would be preferred and even required. The majority of Jeep owners do not place their vehicles in these scenarios and some of the most vocal SFA supporters never take their Jeeps there.

I understand something about his post seemed to have personally struck a nerve and that's unfortunate. I'd challenge your perception of what was said versus how you interpreted it are pretty far off.

I never understand why people can't be a huge fan of multiple vehicles. I have a Gladiator, Fiesta, and GT4. I think the Bronco looks great, is well thought out, and will perform incredibly well. I also like Land Rovers, Cruisers, McLarens, and the new Lightning. I have no desire to be defined by what I drive or to place myself in a box where I only support one manufacturer of something.
Thank you. If you read 'Lost's' posts, you'll see that he is bashing... and bashing all of the following; the Jeep, those who love them, and the need for SFA. All in defense of the Bronco.
His words... "SFA Elite, SFA Purists, and "they can shove it".

Adversely:
I'll address 'Lost' directly when he or she comes around and if they care to reply.


I don't care if they do or not. But I'd rather not deal with a mitigate or handler... And I mean that with all due respect to all involved.

I don't go gallivanting to Tacoma or Subaru forums talking shit.

Bottom line, Henry Ford's company, isn't going to let the web jinks them with a new product line. IE: Bronco.

I wouldn't say paid spies and deliberate antagonists is the definition. But it kinda looks like that.
 

iammacey

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Thank you. If you read 'Lost's' posts, you'll see that he is bashing... and bashing all of the following; the Jeep, those who love them, and the need for SFA. All in defense of the Bronco.
His words... "SFA Elite, SFA Purists, and "they can shove it".

Adversely:
I'll address 'Lost' directly when he or she comes around and if they care to reply.


I don't care if they do or not. But I'd rather not deal with a mitigate or handler... And I mean that with all due respect to all involved.

I don't go gallivanting to Tacoma or Subaru forums talking shit.

Bottom line, Henry Ford's company, isn't going to let the web jinks them with a new product line. IE: Bronco.

I wouldn't say paid spies and deliberate antagonists is the definition. But it kinda looks like that.
For clarity, I am no one's handler. And I can read, and did read. So I won't take that personally. You seem direct, so I'll be direct. I felt you misunderstood the nature of the post and was trying to bring an alternate perspective to you. It seems that was not successful and I'll take note going forward as it relates to how you engage others and perceive things.

No worries and lesson learned.
 

OldButStillJeeping

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For clarity, I am no one's handler. And I can read, and did read. So I won't take that personally. You seem direct, so I'll be direct. I felt you misunderstood the nature of the post and was trying to bring an alternate perspective to you. It seems that was not successful and I'll take note going forward as it relates to how you engage others and perceive things.

No worries and lesson learned.
Awesome. So if the battle is lost, or the Gig is up. And your cards have been called...
You claim mental illness.. on your supposed adversary.

Typical.

God Bless. But I didn't think I'd find that here.

So, in a nutshell, the want or desire for SFA, is a mental illness in Ford Corporate's definition.
 

DaveNH

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It is my understanding that the I6 configuration crank pin location is key to that instant hit of torque from idle. With a Vtype, the torque pulses are muted by one another to some degree because of crank pin offsets. It would be nice to have another I6 with modern efficiency although the Cherokee 4.0 returns 18 mpg just like the pentastar. Agreed, nothing currently made.
The rumored I6 is supposedly based on the 2.0, although with tighter cylinder spacing and other changes, such that the overall length was to be just 3" longer than the 2.4l Tigershark. It supposedly would replace the pentastar and the HEMIs, with outputs ranging from 300-500+ HP.
 

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DaveNH

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Once the tow rating was published I knew I wasn’t keeping my day 1 reservation
That surprised me. The 2.3 in the Ranger is rated for 7500#. Given that the Bronco is based on the Ranger platform with a shorter wheelbase, and how they benchmarked Jeep, I thought they'd go with 5000# towing.

That said, they're also fighting the perception of IFS and articulation, and they made a big deal about their wheel travel and RTI. Perhaps a higher tow rating could have required stiffer springs, which may then affect the RTI score?
 

LostWoods

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Thank you. If you read 'Lost's' posts, you'll see that he is bashing... and bashing all of the following; the Jeep, those who love them, and the need for SFA. All in defense of the Bronco.
His words... "SFA Elite, SFA Purists, and "they can shove it".

Adversely:
I'll address 'Lost' directly when he or she comes around and if they care to reply.


I don't care if they do or not. But I'd rather not deal with a mitigate or handler... And I mean that with all due respect to all involved.

I don't go gallivanting to Tacoma or Subaru forums talking shit.

Bottom line, Henry Ford's company, isn't going to let the web jinks them with a new product line. IE: Bronco.

I wouldn't say paid spies and deliberate antagonists is the definition. But it kinda looks like that.
I think you are reading too far into my posts. Yes, I used those words and meant every one of them because SFA purists are just as bad as Toyota purists or V8 purists or anyone else who cannot fathom their perfect design doesn't meet the criteria for everyone. I talk shit on Jeep because I talked shit on Toyota (2nd and 3rd gen Tacoma) and Ford (Ranger) before that. I have loved and hated all my vehicles as each have had have had objective flaws and it's healthy to acknowledge those flaws and limitations. Getting complacent is how you end up with a Jeep that has seen little innovation or change in 15 years. Same issue on the Toyota side in that the 3rd gen Tacoma is basically a 2nd gen from 2004 with an updated powertrain.

I'm in a JT because I value the SFA. You know who doesn't value that axle? The massive majority of new JL/JT buyers. That was my point - not that the SFA is a pile of crap because it's clearly better in a lot of off road situations, only that the same things that make it especially effective make it especially weak in other situations. It has the ceiling for slow off road that most new buyers will never need even if they think they do.

I cannot drive my Gladiator anywhere near as fast as I could my Tacoma because the handling off road is far less stable. The steering is less precise, less responsive, and the nature of the SFA means any bump is felt across both sides. That's not me talking trash, that's objective facts about the design.

On the other hand, I have yet to find a situation where I needed a locker because the SFA does its job in the slow stuff and the BLD fills in the gaps. I frequently had to engage the rear locker in my TRD because it would wave a tire and even ATRAC wasn't enough. That's, again, not me talking trash about the IFS, that's just an objective feature of the design.

Every design has its strengths, every design has weaknesses. Being a purist to tradition and saying "Jeeps have solid axles" is one thing but to sit there and argue that for anything off-road, it's SFA or nothing is just being willfully ignorant of progress.
 

OldButStillJeeping

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I think you are reading too far into my posts. Yes, I used those words and meant every one of them because SFA purists are just as bad as Toyota purists or V8 purists or anyone else who cannot fathom their perfect design doesn't meet the criteria for everyone. I talk shit on Jeep because I talked shit on Toyota (2nd and 3rd gen Tacoma) and Ford (Ranger) before that. I have loved and hated all my vehicles as each have had have had objective flaws and it's healthy to acknowledge those flaws and limitations. Getting complacent is how you end up with a Jeep that has seen little innovation or change in 15 years. Same issue on the Toyota side in that the 3rd gen Tacoma is basically a 2nd gen from 2004 with an updated powertrain.

I'm in a JT because I value the SFA. You know who doesn't value that axle? The massive majority of new JL/JT buyers. That was my point - not that the SFA is a pile of crap because it's clearly better in a lot of off road situations, only that the same things that make it especially effective make it especially weak in other situations. It has the ceiling for slow off road that most new buyers will never need even if they think they do.

I cannot drive my Gladiator anywhere near as fast as I could my Tacoma because the handling off road is far less stable. The steering is less precise, less responsive, and the nature of the SFA means any bump is felt across both sides. That's not me talking trash, that's objective facts about the design.

On the other hand, I have yet to find a situation where I needed a locker because the SFA does its job in the slow stuff and the BLD fills in the gaps. I frequently had to engage the rear locker in my TRD because it would wave a tire and even ATRAC wasn't enough. That's, again, not me talking trash about the IFS, that's just an objective feature of the design.

Every design has its strengths, every design has weaknesses. Being a purist to tradition and saying "Jeeps have solid axles" is one thing but to sit there and argue that for anything off-road, it's SFA or nothing is just being willfully ignorant of progress.
Thank you 'Lost'.

In general, the caveat is the fact that the Blue Oval is selling the myth that the Bronco is comparable to a SFA vehicles. They're not. Off road - Capability wise. Sure, the rack and pinion steering and such will reduce lane wander and such. Makes for a comfy drive on the hiway. The many posts on here about lane wandering gripes is ridiculous. It's the price one pays for capability.

Obviously; My primary issue is not with you personally. It comes down to your previously slamming Jeep enthusiasts and the SFA issue as it relates to the Bronco.


For the record...
My past experiences includes owning and 'wheeling' many IFS vehicles. I've owned, and wheeled hard, the following 4wd's:. Dodge D50 Power Wagon pickup ( Rebadged Mitsubishi) , Mitsu Montero, Mazda pickup (Rebadged Ford Ranger), Ford Ranger, 2 Subaru's and a GEO Tracker.
With SFA.. I've owned and wheeled hard the following:
And a Jeep TJ and a YJ. And a couple Super Duty pick ups. And my first.. 1971 FJ 40.
If you've read this far... LoL.. but..
There is NO comparison off-road capability wise btwn IFS and SFA.

The beauty of it all is... When I owned IFS... I had to pick the right line or fall behind my SFA owning friends. I learned A Lot about picking the right line.

Bronco is selling the bronco as an equivalent to Jeep's JL... that's false.

I'll ad this... We agree to disagree. With all due respect... I'll give you a soda or beer if I see you on the trail. I'm done with this Bronco thread.

Cheers
 
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db305

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Thank you 'Lost'.

In general, the caveat is the fact that the Blue Oval is selling the myth that the Bronco is comparable to a SFA vehicles. They're not. Off road - Capability wise. Sure, the rack and pinion steering and such will reduce lane wander and such. Makes for a comfy drive on the hiway. The many posts on here about lane wandering gripes is ridiculous. It's the price one pays for capability.

Obviously; My primary issue is not with you personally. It comes down to your previously slamming Jeep enthusiasts and the SFA issue as it relates to the Bronco.


For the record...
My past experiences includes owning and 'wheeling' many IFS vehicles. I've owned, and wheeled hard, the following 4wd's:. Dodge D50 Power Wagon pickup ( Rebadged Mitsubishi) , Mitsu Montero, Mazda pickup (Rebadged Ford Ranger), Ford Ranger, 2 Subaru's and a GEO Tracker.
With SFA.. I've owned and wheeled hard the following:
And a Jeep TJ and a YJ. And a couple Super Duty pick ups. And my first.. 1971 FJ 40.
If you've read this far... LoL.. but..
There is NO comparison off-road capability wise btwn IFS and SFA.

The beauty of it all is... When I owned IFS... I had to pick the right line or fall behind my SFA owning friends. I learned A Lot about picking the right line.

Bronco is selling the bronco as an equivalent to Jeep's JL... that's false.

I'll ad this... We agree to disagree. With all due respect... I'll give you a soda or beer if I see you on the trail. I'm done with this Bronco thread.

Cheers
if you're going to accuse someone that has been here and posting for over a year before you made an account of being a shill for ford (and another poster that's been here for almost 2 years of being his handler and backup), then why shouldn't we just assume that you're just shilling for jeep? you're the opposite side of the same coin. i'd wager that no one here actually thinks that because it's a childish assumption.
 

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Thank you 'Lost'.

In general, the caveat is the fact that the Blue Oval is selling the myth that the Bronco is comparable to a SFA vehicles. They're not. Off road - Capability wise. Sure, the rack and pinion steering and such will reduce lane wander and such. Makes for a comfy drive on the hiway. The many posts on here about lane wandering gripes is ridiculous. It's the price one pays for capability.

Obviously; My primary issue is not with you personally. It comes down to your previously slamming Jeep enthusiasts and the SFA issue as it relates to the Bronco.


For the record...
My past experiences includes owning and 'wheeling' many IFS vehicles. I've owned, and wheeled hard, the following 4wd's:. Dodge D50 Power Wagon pickup ( Rebadged Mitsubishi) , Mitsu Montero, Mazda pickup (Rebadged Ford Ranger), Ford Ranger, 2 Subaru's and a GEO Tracker.
With SFA.. I've owned and wheeled hard the following:
And a Jeep TJ and a YJ. And a couple Super Duty pick ups. And my first.. 1971 FJ 40.
If you've read this far... LoL.. but..
There is NO comparison off-road capability wise btwn IFS and SFA.

The beauty of it all is... When I owned IFS... I had to pick the right line or fall behind my SFA owning friends. I learned A Lot about picking the right line.

Bronco is selling the bronco as an equivalent to Jeep's JL... that's false.

I'll ad this... We agree to disagree. With all due respect... I'll give you a soda or beer if I see you on the trail. I'm done with this Bronco thread.

Cheers
I know you said you were out but I bolded the key point where I think our perspectives differ.

The Wrangler is no longer an unapologetic off-road machine. Purists decried the JK and its power windows and locks and 4 doors as no longer being a real Jeep just like they did when leaf springs went away with the TJ. Jeeps have evolved and the JL is especially a lifestyle vehicle with all the creature comforts that the average consumer can enjoy.

In this sense, the Bronco and the JL are almost exactly the same vehicle. Neither are built for people like you and I who do go play in the dirt on a regular basis, they're built for the average consumer who occasionally takes them camping down a forestry road at most. Yes, they have left in features that make them very upgradable, but to the average consumer that Ford and Jeep sell to, there is very little difference between the two from a functional standpoint.

It's the price one pays for capability.
For one kind of capability, and this is why we keep bashing heads. There's more to off-road capability than articulation. IFS is more stable over corrugations and speeding through whoops and in that case, giving up articulation is the cost of capability. Every capability has a cost and people prioritize different capabilities. It doesn't make them wrong, it makes them different. That's the elitism that kills me with the whole Jeep cult in that they cannot fathom other people off-road differently than they do.
 

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I have a Bronco reservation. It was a possible 2021 (unlikely as a day three two door). With all the launch problems, I just made my order a priority 99, and will hopefully order a manual Sasquatch once they’re available next year some time. In the mean time I ordered a manual transmission Mojave, which I think should be completed maybe today! I love them both. It’s all about character.
 

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I never understand why people can't be a huge fan of multiple vehicles. I have a Gladiator, Fiesta, and GT4. I think the Bronco looks great, is well thought out, and will perform incredibly well. I also like Land Rovers, Cruisers, McLarens, and the new Lightning. I have no desire to be defined by what I drive or to place myself in a box where I only support one manufacturer of something.
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MPMB

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As a dyed in wool Ford guy, I bought a Gladiator. The Bronco does nothing for me, nor does another eco-boom.
Ford's recent (within the last decade) quality and response has ruined the brand for me. While I like the Bronco, as does the wife, I'm not sure I really want to deal with those asshats ever again.

5.4 spark plugs, aluminum body panels that "rust", the Focus/Fiesta transmission, and something I'm forgetting that just came out in the last year or so.
 

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The Bronco (not to be confused with the Bronco Sport) seems to be what we call in the computer business, 'vaporware'. Technically, it's a piece of software that is touted and touted, for months, years, but never materializes. I think the same thing applies here. Unless I missed something, I've not seen anything to make me think that it exists, other than showing one at a car show here and there.
The first Broncos were delivered to dealerships, for customers to pick up this week. Certainly a slow rollout, but They do it in the middle of a pandemic. Well start seeing them on the road within the next few weeks.
 

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It’s gonna fade just like the FJ. They made a mistake going with IFS instead of a solid front axle. Off road purists allready don’t want it. Granted it looks nice. Maybe a decent daily/weekend warrior but even built won’t hold a candle to built wrangler/gladiator
Or maybe it won’t fade, like the 4Runner. The FJ was not a good vehicle. Lots of small issues that made it a bad daily driver, like not having any windows but the front two roll down. I don’t think the solid axle is what makes these types of vehicles successful. I would be willing to bet the most common selling point of a Jeep is the removable doors and top. And to be honest, the bronco does it better. You get 4 freedom panels on the 4door hardtop, the mirrors stay on, and the doors are lighter. It’s a pretty well thought out suv.
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