Car Manufacturers Monetizing Ownership

[chorky]

It will be locked down. If you want it you will pay a monthly fee.

…..

When it changes it changes and you are forced to accept the change.

…..

No more sticking with a version of anything - it's akin to virtual desktops used in business. Nothing is installed locally, you boot from the network and launch apps from the network. The computer MUST maintain connection to the network to function.

This just made me think back at the movie 5th element. Where there were all the ‘cool’ people up in the clouds just going along with whoever told them what was the best thing. And all the grounders who were making due and not accepting being forced a particular direction.


I deal with this software stuff at work. Esri (for anyone who knows GIS) is a good example. We are being forced to use the new Pro software so I am getting a jump on it now and building all new models and analysis pathwas before the forced switchover. A lot of my coworkers though are refusing to do so until told to do so (also just poor work ethic). I happen to like the new interface except for the new program will not run one of our extension spreadsheets which makes life significantly easier. So despite being forced in to a new program that is ‘better’ we are also inadvertently forced to go backwards and turns a task that currently takes a week or two and puts us back 10 years so said task will now take a month or two. Pretty insane.

I also hate subscription based software and cant imagine how terrible it will be if companies do this all around. Can you imagine having to pay 100 bucks a month just to cook on your oven out to let the hot water heater connect to the cloud so it can analyze electric use to optimize its power output?? folks out in the boonies with no or poor internet would be hurting. Then again. They would be forced to get sat internet. Its not a good direction to go. Unfortunately until people stop buying and using things to hurt the pocketbooks of these large companies they will continue on this path.

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[Hootbro]

I've been saying this for years - manufacturers and their tied-in dealer networks are no longer going to have the cash-cow oil changes and maintenance charges that ICE engine vehicles bring. Electric vehicles are far cheaper to maintain. These are the only maintenance items listed for Telsa owners:

• Cabin air filter replacement
• Tire rotation
• Brake fluid test: Tesla owners should have the brake fluid tested every two years and replaced as needed.
  • Brake pads don’t need to be replaced as often as on traditional vehicles because Teslas use regenerative braking to reduce wear.
• Winter care: Tesla recommends lubricating your car’s brake calipers every 12 months or 12,500 miles if you live in a cold-weather region.
• Air conditioning service: Tesla recommends servicing the air conditioning and replacing the desiccant bag every two to six years, depending on the model and year. See the table below for details.

Fluids are where the constant ICE maintenance revenues come from. There are no oil changes, radiator flushes, transmission flushes, etc in electrics. Brake pad and rotor maintenance revenues are greatly reduced as well.

It's an industry that's trying to adapt. Now we're seeing subscription based features as a replacement for long term maintenance, but consumers are really pushing back.

Their error is charging for features that are commonplace. Heated seats? C'mon BMW. Tesla gets away with it because it's been a new experience and it was baked in the ownership model from the beginning. The way industry stalwarts like BMW can add subscription revenue is for new features and experiences. Tesla's premium subscription includes:

An upgraded “premium connectivity” package adds features in-car Wi-Fi, navigation with live traffic updates, and access to the monthly downloads Tesla pushes out with fun in-car entertainment like karaoke and games on the car’s central touchscreen. Premium connectivity costs $9.99 per month or an annual fee of $99.​

I'm not saying Tesla's model is perfect, but it's far from charging for remote start or heated seats. Granted for some models you have to unlock them, but it's a one time fee (at least for now). Ugh.

Besides OEM parts, how much if any does a dealership kick back to corporate for customer paid maintenance?

 

[j.o.y.ride]

I'm actually fine with paying a one time fee to unlock a given feature.

AKA adding an option or package

 

[j.o.y.ride]

I am a zero frills guy, I don't really have anything added that I need other than backup camera.

The frustrating part is the cars will come with the equipment installed so you're going to be paying more for the hardware even if you never use the software subscription to activate it.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I am a zero frills guy, I don't really have anything added that I need other than backup camera.

The frustrating part is the cars will come with the equipment installed so you're going to be paying more for the hardware even if you never use the software subscription to activate it.

Bingo.

 

[DirkG]

Besides OEM parts, how much if any does a dealership kick back to corporate for customer paid maintenance?

The manufacturer and the dealer have always had a symbiotic relationship. Enforced by the National Automotive Dealership Association (NADA). And I think that's one of the sticking points in this automotive New World Order.

The dealer represents the manufacturer with the customer: the dealer is the salesman; the dealer is the buyer of your trade-in; the dealer is the finance guy. The dealer wants you to finance through the company banks. The dealer tries to sell you the highest profit vehicle for them and the manufacturer. Now the dealer will try to sell you on needing the most subscriptions.

Historically, the dealer has also been the repairman.

The main difference is that with electric cars, the dealer is not much of a repairman as he once was...and organizations like NADA will try to make sure there are other revenue streams (i.e. increased sales quotas and subscriptions) to keep as many dealers operational as possible. Many dealers will go away, there's no denying that, but subscription services are a bit of caffeine for the dealership networks.

 

[dcmdon]

AKA adding an option or package

Exactly

 

[ShadowsPapa]

The dealer wants you to finance through the company banks.

May be true in some cases - but we are always asked if we want to finance, and how/who with. We have often said our own credit union unless a search shows better rates elsewhere.
Once or twice there have been incentives directly from Chrysler for financing via Chrysler Credit - and in that case it's worth it to get the 1 or 2 grand off, then after a month switch it to our credit union.

 

[dcmdon]

May be true in some cases - but we are always asked if we want to finance, and how/who with. We have often said our own credit union unless a search shows better rates elsewhere.
Once or twice there have been incentives directly from Chrysler for financing via Chrysler Credit - and in that case it's worth it to get the 1 or 2 grand off, then after a month switch it to our credit union.

Back when I was did financing at a Saab/Subaru dealer we would occasionally get a 0% promotion from one of the manufacturers. They were always "zero participation" programs, meaning that it didn't cost the dealer if the customer took the financing.

On multiple occasions I'd find myself trying to talk an old Swamp Yankee, who has never used credit in his life that he really SHOULD finance the car.

In one case, his daughter set up a separate money market account with the full amount of the car fully funded, and set up automatic payments. When the loan was over she gave him the $4000 left in the bank account. Ha.

 

[Hootbro]

The manufacturer and the dealer have always had a symbiotic relationship. Enforced by the National Automotive Dealership Association (NADA). And I think that's one of the sticking points in this automotive New World Order.

The dealer represents the manufacturer with the customer: the dealer is the salesman; the dealer is the buyer of your trade-in; the dealer is the finance guy. The dealer wants you to finance through the company banks. The dealer tries to sell you the highest profit vehicle for them and the manufacturer. Now the dealer will try to sell you on needing the most subscriptions.

Historically, the dealer has also been the repairman.

The main difference is that with electric cars, the dealer is not much of a repairman as he once was...and organizations like NADA will try to make sure there are other revenue streams (i.e. increased sales quotas and subscriptions) to keep as many dealers operational as possible. Many dealers will go away, there's no denying that, but subscription services are a bit of caffeine for the dealership networks.

Not really what I asked but I get all that.

For example, you go in for maintenance and have a $200 bill that does not include the cost of parts, what if any of that $200 is kicked up to corporate?

 

[Wageslave]

At least for a good while, these subscription based options should be somewhat easily hackable. A properly coded Raspberry Pi with a LIN bus shield should be able to issue commands over the vehicles LIN or CAN bus. All it would take is someone with the feature and a similar device to snoop the bus for what command was issued when the button was hit. Then you could program your Pi to issue the same command when one of the Pi's inputs are triggered. Even a simple touch screen could be added to control all the extra features if more than a few things were paywalled.

In the future, they could make it where the individual modules were locked out of commands on the hardware side but I would say almost no one is doing it that way now.

 

[Tommyd]

Ad long as we the people keep paying for this crap, they will keep pushing the boundaries. I applaud those with the willingness to walk away from a deal based on the refusal to feed corporate greed.

Indeed!! If know one bought it then it would go away! Just like all the vehicles going way above sticker. Just DONT buy it!!

 

[Timoleon]

I can imagine sitting on the trail trying to select lock for both and front diffs, Then you get a warning to pay for the feature if wanted to use. So, right there on the trail with folks lined up in front of you and behind you waiting for your payment to clear so you can get the lockers to engage. Then you select 2 wheel drive at the end of the run. You have to pay on line to get the vehicle back from 4 wheel low to 2 wheel hi. Nice! Remember "mother may I"? Or Simon says....

 

[JTenn]

I can imagine sitting on the trail trying to select lock for both and front diffs, Then you get a warning to pay for the feature if wanted to use. So, right there on the trail with folks lined up in front of you and behind you waiting for your payment to clear so you can get the lockers to engage. Then you select 2 wheel drive at the end of the run. You have to pay on line to get the vehicle back from 4 wheel low to 2 wheel hi. Nice! Remember "mother may I"? Or Simon says....

Cable activated OX lockers!! Tell corporate to pound sand!!

 

[Walldo]

So, if they own it and you pay a subscription to use it, does that mean they would pay for the repairs?

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