Did the value of Gladiators just fall through the floor ???!

[ShadowsPapa]

Imo, it's all depending on geographic. There are lots of hills in the west.

I need to set up my phone to take a video of me driving in our area - all hills. Constant up and down. There are lots of hills, here, too, as I've shown. I find some other states actually giving me better mpg. Ironically, in Colorado, our MPG wasn't any worse than around home.

The traffic signals here are pretty stupid - almost no yellow time, and you sit, and sit, and sit - that's why I let ESS work. Otherwise I'd be paying for the gas while I sit for 2 to 2 1/2 minutes at a light.

The highways - there's a big difference. You can actually drive the speed limit or a bit above and not get killed by the other traffic. 75 works here.
Yeah, we got pretty good mpg while in CO a couple of years back. The biggest killer is the wind, and it's pretty constant here. I've had many times where my JT didn't shift out of 6th on I80 because of the wind. I drove 20 miles at 70 mph on I80/35 then I80 after the mix-master and it never left 6th gear due to the wind.
My mpg really sucked then - there's where a diesel would shine - it wouldn't care.

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[foxwalkhq]

Ok. The most insulting of these messages are direct evidence that I'm right in my assertion that YOUR PERCEPTION OF ME IS WRONG. Anything I've said about my situation has only been to CORRECT THAT INCORRECT PERCEPTION.

Now the most important one, I put as 2nd quote, because most importantly I owe JamesWyatt an apology.

I feel like you’re just trying to get free therapy here. I’m sorry for your situation, but if you just want to hear yourself talk, take it somewhere else. No one wants to read these TLDR rants.

I dunno why I said I wouldn't apologize. That was stupid. I'm sorry for that. And I'm sorry that you got offended by what I said earlier. I was pissed at myself for spending so much time yesterday trying to explain to these people that their assumptions about me are incorrect, instead of spending that time working towards improving my situation.

Assumptions WHICH WERE MADE BEFORE I SAID ONE WORD ABOUT MY SITUATION.

As far as I'm concerned the situation is over. I came here to apologize to you. And then I saw smoking guns so hot they're burning down the room the server that runs this forum is in, and I thought I'd make one last attempt to have you people realize that you are getting me all wrong.

And the reason why, is because ... When you're talking to someone? DON'T YOU WANT TO BE ACCURATE ABOUT YOUR PERCEPTION OF WHO THEY ARE AND WHAT THEY ARE SAYING??? OF COURSE YOU DO.

I'm going to write this to you the same way I would say it to you if I was looking you in the eye at the bar:

You have bad credit, you have no money, no job, and you are underwater to the point that you can't afford the gas and are going to take a bath if you try to sell your truck.

You are not the smartest person in the room. The smartest person in the room accounts for bad luck. You didn't.

Hell, if I got laid off, my biggest struggle would be convincing my wife that the slide in pop up camper on the brand new F350 would be a better vacation vehicle option than a full sized camper for the 6 month vacation I'm taking the day I lose my job.

See the difference?

* No I am not unemployed.
* No I do not have "bad" credit. I don't have excellent credit, but I don't have "bad" credit
* No I am not underwater to the point where I can't afford gas on the vehicle. Being underwater has nothing to do with it.
* Yes, I am the smartest person in the room. This is evidenced by the fact that I have tried to explain to you people over and over and over again, correcting INCORRECT ... !! WRONG !! attacks on me. Not only have am I the smartest person in the room, but you people make yourselves seem unintelligent by repeatedly not understanding my words.

Evidence 1: The OP "OMG KBB said my vehicle is worth $20-$30k... Is this real or is KBB smoking something?"
Other people: KBB is wrong/dumb/untrustworthy/etc.
Me: *whew* Thank God!
Everyone else after that: "You're complaining because your vehicle worth dropped. You're stupid if you bought a vehicle and didn't expect it to depreciate."

Now if you can't see that. Please. Don't embarrass yourself by saying anything about anyone else's intelligence.

Must be a software engineer thing then. I get the same feedback from our software engineering team.

I find many if not most of them on the spectrum. 160+ IQ but wear velcro laced shoes

Here it is. I'm sorry I made you feel inferior because I have conversations that ARE NORMAL TO ME with ShadowsPapa who talked about opportunity costs and sounded a little unsure about the meaning. I was reassuring him YES you do have it correctly and then I engaged in conversation that for me is perfectly normal.

And anything I say about what I believe is important when it comes to finances I know to be correct. If anyone doesn't agree with what I say that's their perogative but it's my right to have my opinion.

I didn't create a virus and spread it around the world and then lie about it's death and infection rate by using flu statistics to inflate the COVID ones, and then shut down and destroy peoples' businesses for two years and force companies out of business because their only saving grace was a hospital that was going to work with them.

And to ShadowsPapa: I respect you brother. I respect your immense knowledge of Jeeps and everything else. You always have massive value to bring to threads I've seen on here.

I saw your message to me but I am not going to respond simply because I am fed up and done with this.

I am done trying to correct straight up WRONG assumptions and assertions about me, and like I said above I will not apologize to a bunch of mouth breathers (present company excluded) for being intelligent.

I said what I said about being smart because I have been told what HootBro said once before, and what this usually means is that people feel insecure because someone else around them is talking about things they may not understand or maybe using words that are too big.

No. Coddling insecurities is not my job.

And any further rude attacks on me will have the people who did so blocked.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I strongly doubt there's many that can make @Hootbro feel inferior.
He's fine with who he is and doesn't need others to prop him up. I should be so lucky.

My problem - I know stuff, but the link to get it out there is busted. That's what severe ADHD does - it cuts the ties between knowledge and explaining it outwardly. And that creates some self-doubt at times (like opportunity costs - yeah, I knew it - but was it coming out that way)
This is why I really, in the end, likes the boss I had with state government - he turned me loose and gave me full support after a good one-on-one we had.
He did the communicating for me and turned me loose on whatever I felt needed to be done, "just do it".
My problem is communication - the knowledge is there, getting it out there is the problem. It's like tons of RAM, but no RAM cache or indexing of where things are, or a SQL database with no log or index.
(loved it when the so-called SQL expert set up backups of the databases each weekend, but never bothered with the SQL logs. I fixed it for them.)

 

[Mr._Bill]

Ok. The most insulting of these messages are direct evidence that I'm right in my assertion that YOUR PERCEPTION OF ME IS WRONG. Anything I've said about my situation has only been to CORRECT THAT INCORRECT PERCEPTION.

Now the most important one, I put as 2nd quote, because most importantly I owe JamesWyatt an apology.



I dunno why I said I wouldn't apologize. That was stupid. I'm sorry for that. And I'm sorry that you got offended by what I said earlier. I was pissed at myself for spending so much time yesterday trying to explain to these people that their assumptions about me are incorrect, instead of spending that time working towards improving my situation.

Assumptions WHICH WERE MADE BEFORE I SAID ONE WORD ABOUT MY SITUATION.

As far as I'm concerned the situation is over. I came here to apologize to you. And then I saw smoking guns so hot they're burning down the room the server that runs this forum is in, and I thought I'd make one last attempt to have you people realize that you are getting me all wrong.

And the reason why, is because ... When you're talking to someone? DON'T YOU WANT TO BE ACCURATE ABOUT YOUR PERCEPTION OF WHO THEY ARE AND WHAT THEY ARE SAYING??? OF COURSE YOU DO.



* No I am not unemployed.
* No I do not have "bad" credit. I don't have excellent credit, but I don't have "bad" credit
* No I am not underwater to the point where I can't afford gas on the vehicle. Being underwater has nothing to do with it.
* Yes, I am the smartest person in the room. This is evidenced by the fact that I have tried to explain to you people over and over and over again, correcting INCORRECT ... !! WRONG !! attacks on me. Not only have am I the smartest person in the room, but you people make yourselves seem unintelligent by repeatedly not understanding my words.

Evidence 1: The OP "OMG KBB said my vehicle is worth $20-$30k... Is this real or is KBB smoking something?"
Other people: KBB is wrong/dumb/untrustworthy/etc.
Me: *whew* Thank God!
Everyone else after that: "You're complaining because your vehicle worth dropped. You're stupid if you bought a vehicle and didn't expect it to depreciate."

Now if you can't see that. Please. Don't embarrass yourself by saying anything about anyone else's intelligence.



Here it is. I'm sorry I made you feel inferior because I have conversations that ARE NORMAL TO ME with ShadowsPapa who talked about opportunity costs and sounded a little unsure about the meaning. I was reassuring him YES you do have it correctly and then I engaged in conversation that for me is perfectly normal.

And anything I say about what I believe is important when it comes to finances I know to be correct. If anyone doesn't agree with what I say that's their perogative but it's my right to have my opinion.

I didn't create a virus and spread it around the world and then lie about it's death and infection rate by using flu statistics to inflate the COVID ones, and then shut down and destroy peoples' businesses for two years and force companies out of business because their only saving grace was a hospital that was going to work with them.

And to ShadowsPapa: I respect you brother. I respect your immense knowledge of Jeeps and everything else. You always have massive value to bring to threads I've seen on here.

I saw your message to me but I am not going to respond simply because I am fed up and done with this.

I am done trying to correct straight up WRONG assumptions and assertions about me.

If you were the smartest person in the room, you would not be spending so much time writing these long posts. People's perceptions are what they are, and this type of behavior doesn't change them.

 

[foxwalkhq]

If you were the smartest person in the room, you would not be spending so much time writing these long posts. People's perceptions are what they are, and this type of behavior doesn't change them.

Bravo

The classic "If you weren't _____ you wouldn't [opinion here]" when the person posted FACTS.

And then of course ignoring said facts.

The one thing you people have going for you is the delusion that you're the winner in these kinds of arguments.

You literally cannot see that you're factually wrong about nearly everything and you do not seem to acknowledge the importance of actually having an accurate perception of what people said and who people are.

And here it is: I'm not saying you're factually wrong about something like Jeeps or Microsoft or what have you. THE SUBJECT IS ME. I have an authority on that subject that you do not, and the original post backs me up.

This is but one of the reasons everyone's always fighting each other and people don't get along.

And no doubt there will be stupid idiotic rebuttals to this which are further attacks on my character, more "if you were X you would/wouldn't do [Y opinion here]" ..

Goodbye my friends.

Update: Going back and reading through all the posts I realized what happened. I was judged incorrectly and prematurely. And then I shared a lot of stuff that got me judged even more. Whether it proved that the prev. judgments were incorrect doesn't matter. Coz people will judge... Oh well. :/

 

[foxwalkhq]

Going back and sorting through all the replies I see that there's an almost exponential difference in the people telling me that KBB is BS vs. people disparaging me.

Hootbro. Lost track 5 pages deep.

Wasn't my intention to make lite of his situation at all.

If it's urgent carmax is usually fast but not max offer. Selling private can take time you might not have and take your focus on your job hunt.

Sorry I missed this. Thank you for your response.

I'm actually not unemployed. I have a job. I got laid off of a really .. dream job pretty much... not just money but also loved everything about it, and had to take a crappier job that has less pay.

Now I keep this crappier job because I realize it's kind of a "cushy" job, pretty easy and it affords me the time to work on building my own independent sources of income. When I had the "dream job" I was extremely complacent. The current job has me struggling which fuels me to take more action towards achieving financial independence.

I'm sorry if I gave the wrong impression that I was not employed. I've never been unemployed for longer than a month.

 

[foxwalkhq]

Shocking that your jeep is averaging 12 mpg. With the years of research, and with fuel economy being a key consideration, the diesel overland should have been your only option. My '23 JTRD is the heaviest pig--it has just about every option and it's averaging over 23 mpg. Basically use mine for towing and HD runs. Have a 4C and JCW mini(both 30 mpg) to save the environment and keep the miles off of the jeep........

Yeah the Diesel was a consideration and I actually tried to trade mine in for a Diesel but they wouldn't do the loan because it was too soon after I got the loan for the one I have.

I was afraid to get the Diesel because I've heard about the problems with the DEF system and that people had their Diesels at the dealer for 4-6 months waiting on new emissions parts that cost ~$6000 if they break and are not covered under warranty if it happened while off-roading.

 

[BlackRuby23]

You'll only know what the true value is when you actually sell it. Nothing else matters.

PS - Yes, I do think the value of used Gladiators has absolutely plummeted as of late, due in part to the massive discounts on the 2023 models by the manufacturer, and also because the entire auto market is correcting.

 

[Bluey]

I just checked the value of my Gladiator by VIN on KBB.com and it said $22,000-$30,000 for private party?????????????????!!!!

Is KBB smoking some powerful mind altering drugs or is this true????

Sounds completely insane..

Just last month I had it appraised for $35k at one dealership and $40k at another for trade in.

I bought a new '23 Mojave for $42K in January. MSRP was $58K. Its now at 8K miles KBB is showing trade-in value of $37-42K, Private party value $40-45K. They dealer offered $13K to buy my 2015 Ram with 170K miles. I kept it and registered it with farm plates. I'm in coastal TX(flat) and averaging 17mpg with a lot of idling. This is slowly becoming the kid hauler. KBB can be off quite a bit on classics/rare vehicles. Example my old AMC J10s, Ford Falcon, Eclipse GST. More of a niche market of buyers perhaps. Not sure.

If you are selling get as many appraisals/offers as you can handle. Just stinks waiting on it to be looked over, etc.

 

[foxwalkhq]

I just got offered $40,000 for a trade in today. That KBB value I got was complete bunk.

Interesting that on yours it shows $37-$42k.

My best bet is to sell it to a private party. The negative equity is still an issue. Dude at the dealership was like "Oh yeah. If you're able to sell it and not have negative equity that makes things way easier."

Incidently the Mojave is what I originally wanted. I got the Rubicon coz everyone said "You can buy the shocks and make it into a Mojave pretty much." But then that's like $5000-$6000 .. In hindsight I should have bought the Mojave because I quickly discovered that the Jeep Gladiator by itself even at the most basic trim is already extremely capable.

Not having a front locker isn't that big of a deal from what seasoned off-roaders told me. The only issue is the lack of a electronic swaybar disconnect.

But I honestly enjoy the suspension in the Mojave SO MUCH MORE than the Rubicon's soft suspension.

I bought a new '23 Mojave for $42K in January. MSRP was $58K. Its now at 8K miles KBB is showing trade-in value of $37-42K, Private party value $40-45K. They dealer offered $13K to buy my 2015 Ram with 170K miles. I kept it and registered it with farm plates. I'm in coastal TX(flat) and averaging 17mpg with a lot of idling. This is slowly becoming the kid hauler. KBB can be off quite a bit on classics/rare vehicles. Example my old AMC J10s, Ford Falcon, Eclipse GST. More of a niche market of buyers perhaps. Not sure.

If you are selling get as many appraisals/offers as you can handle. Just stinks waiting on it to be looked over, etc.

 

[Jefe1018]

@foxwalkhq Hope it all works out for you.

There is no bigger idiot at spending money than me, but I can’t take it with me when I leave and while I am healthy enough to work and play my ass off, I’m going to. It sounds to me like you made a decision with your heart on this truck. Keep the truck and learn to wheel it. Life is short brother. Godspeed.

 

[BlackRuby23]

There's a beautiful 2021 Gladiator Rubicon with 22k on it on Craigslist asking $42k private party and it has not sold for 2 months.

 

[ArchEtech]

If you overpaid for a used vehicle diring the price spike, paid any dealer markup, or in some cases paid sticker for a brand new, already somewhat overpriced vehicle, then the bubble is going to burst at some point.

If you bought new at $5000 to $15000 off sticker then you will take a lower depreciation hit. Paying closer to $70,000 for a loaded Rubicon is going to hurt a lot less in 5 years than paying $43,000 for a leftover.

What I have noticed anecdotally is that jeeps seem to hit bottom and then kind of keep value around $30,000 until the mileage gets well over 100,000 and even then like a lot of SUV and trucks keep a solid value. The less expensive trims still seem desirable used as well. If you do a quick used search on Carguru, gladiators are still $35,000-40,000 at 3 years old with a good chunk of miles.

I still think wranglers and gladiators seem to depreciate a bit less than most vehicles, less than expensive luxury cars, and certainly less than an EV/Tesla.

How do you think the model Y owners feel right now after they paid $70,000 at 8% interest in 2022-2023. They are probably $20,000 or more upside down in their car, and while it’s easy to say “well that’s their own fault” there are larger numbers of other buyers during that inflation boom that are also way upside down in their car, with a crappy rate and that does have an effect on the economy, their buying power, and their willingness to purchase a new vehicle etc. (really their willingness to buy anything). Part of this is also because of tax credit manipulation and Elon fiddling with prices so much every other month.

The confidence in Tesla and EV cars is taking a dump. The $65,000 top EV6 trims $15,000 off because they aren’t selling. The Cadillac EV is major money off because they are sitting and overpriced. Mercedes can’t sell their top trim EV for even $15,000 off now. There are Ford lightnings sitting at $20,000 off. I thought about a lightning but they are still $70,000. Those aren’t going to age well if they are already 5 figures off.

I bought a 7 month old 2020 model 3 performance in 2021, overpaid a little maybe but still paid less than new at about $55,000 I think it was. It was a very good deal at the time with inflation just staring to fire a bubble. The model Y prices were out of control. In late 2023, it had continued to drop in resale to $23,000-24 with less than 30,000 miles. That’s a lot. Many dealers were not even interested in a trade at all. I ended up trading it for $30,000 in a gladiator with a steep $12,000 or so discount and that made up for the $5000 I was upside down on. One week later Elon announced more price cuts and the new 2024 model with more range, more this and that, faster and the price crashed yes again. So it could have been much worse. In 3 years, I still think my jeep rubicon will
Be worth $35-40,000 and after paying $44,000 that’s not that bad. Is that good or bad as compared to other vehicles, I think it’s on par with those that maintain value pretty well.

 

[foxwalkhq]

Yes, this is why I vowed to myself that I would never finance a vehicle again after first noticing this.

This thread is very long and so posts get lost. I did 6 years of research on the used market for all kinds of Jeeps. but then circumstances changed. The last time I got an appraisal before yesterday the guy told me "It's just a bad time right now." So because it's a bad time right now I got f*cked.

Usually we need to see a pattern before we do something and in 2011 I bought a brand new Chevy Silverado 1500. I ended up wanting to get rid of it and it was the same thing. Underwater for the longest time. It was the greatest feeling once I was able to get rid of it.

I didn't buy a new vehicle after that until this Jeep. And now it's the same thing.

Only problem is you need at least one vehicle to get you around and support your life while not breaking the bank in terms of gas/maintenance. I've modified that vow.

But any vehicles beyond the first one. Buying in cash only. And only if I'll never want to sell it. (this applies for all vehicles, actually it applies to EVERYTHING I would ever spend money on)

If you overpaid for a used vehicle diring the price spike, paid any dealer markup, or in some cases paid sticker for a brand new, already somewhat overpriced vehicle, then the bubble is going to burst at some point.

If you bought new at $5000 to $15000 off sticker then you will take a lower depreciation hit. Paying closer to $70,000 for a loaded Rubicon is going to hurt a lot less in 5 years than paying $43,000 for a leftover.

What I have noticed anecdotally is that jeeps seem to hit bottom and then kind of keep value around $30,000 until the mileage gets well over 100,000 and even then like a lot of SUV and trucks keep a solid value. The less expensive trims still seem desirable used as well. If you do a quick used search on Carguru, gladiators are still $35,000-40,000 at 3 years old with a good chunk of miles.

I still think wranglers and gladiators seem to depreciate a bit less than most vehicles, less than expensive luxury cars, and certainly less than an EV/Tesla.

How do you think the model Y owners feel right now after they paid $70,000 at 8% interest in 2022-2023. They are probably $20,000 or more upside down in their car, and while it’s easy to say “well that’s their own fault” there are larger numbers of other buyers during that inflation boom that are also way upside down in their car, with a crappy rate and that does have an effect on the economy, their buying power, and their willingness to purchase a new vehicle etc. (really their willingness to buy anything). Part of this is also because of tax credit manipulation and Elon fiddling with prices so much every other month.

The confidence in Tesla and EV cars is taking a dump. The $65,000 top EV6 trims $15,000 off because they aren’t selling. The Cadillac EV is major money off because they are sitting and overpriced. Mercedes can’t sell their top trim EV for even $15,000 off now. There are Ford lightnings sitting at $20,000 off. I thought about a lightning but they are still $70,000. Those aren’t going to age well if they are already 5 figures off.

I bought a 7 month old 2020 model 3 performance in 2021, overpaid a little maybe but still paid less than new at about $55,000 I think it was. It was a very good deal at the time with inflation just staring to fire a bubble. The model Y prices were out of control. In late 2023, it had continued to drop in resale to $23,000-24 with less than 30,000 miles. That’s a lot. Many dealers were not even interested in a trade at all. I ended up trading it for $30,000 in a gladiator with a steep $12,000 or so discount and that made up for the $5000 I was upside down on. One week later Elon announced more price cuts and the new 2024 model with more range, more this and that, faster and the price crashed yes again. So it could have been much worse. In 3 years, I still think my jeep rubicon will
Be worth $35-40,000 and after paying $44,000 that’s not that bad. Is that good or bad as compared to other vehicles, I think it’s on par with those that maintain value pretty well.

 

[Wheelin98TJ]

Yes, this is why I vowed to myself that I would never finance a vehicle again after first noticing this.

This thread is very long and so posts get lost. I did 6 years of research on the used market for all kinds of Jeeps. but then circumstances changed. The last time I got an appraisal before yesterday the guy told me "It's just a bad time right now." So because it's a bad time right now I got f*cked.

Usually we need to see a pattern before we do something and in 2011 I bought a brand new Chevy Silverado 1500. I ended up wanting to get rid of it and it was the same thing. Underwater for the longest time. It was the greatest feeling once I was able to get rid of it.

I didn't buy a new vehicle after that until this Jeep. And now it's the same thing.

Only problem is you need at least one vehicle to get you around and support your life while not breaking the bank in terms of gas/maintenance. I've modified that vow.

But any vehicles beyond the first one. Buying in cash only. And only if I'll never want to sell it. (this applies for all vehicles, actually it applies to EVERYTHING I would ever spend money on)

I have 2 vehicles financed right now and equity in both. I got lucky and bought at the right time and they're financed at good rates. One is a Ford with a 0% loan and I bought it on A plan. I've had equity in it every day I've owned it.

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