Ford Laying off 70% of EV Lightning employees [LOCKED DUE TO FIGHTING & POLITICS]

[WILDHOBO]

And to be honest, there shouldn't be an argument at all. EV's have a long way to go before they can ever supplant ICE cars. That is just a fact.

But the truly pressing issue is the lack of power plants being built to support them.

I can't remember how long it has been since a real power plant has been built. But it is years.

Not one of the solar, or wind plants can provide the power to the grid without a natural gas powered backup.

That too is a fact. One that these folks are either unaware of, or are ignoring.

We all love technology. I know I do. I want EV's to take over, but they won't until they are ready.

And yet I addressed this, and you ignored me. There’s a reason enough solar and wind farms aren’t being built. And it’s people saying no to them. Then those same people use the lack of power to claim that solar and wind don’t work. You are one of those people.

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[WestwallNF104A]

Of course the range drops, but from almost 400 to half ish. That’s the problem with the lightning. It starts at 200 max. It shouldn’t even be sold with a receiver.

I agree with you. The Lightning is a gimmick. The Rivian has a range of 280 miles (per the article I linked to) that then drops to 108 miles. I am not surprised by that. My gladiator gets 16ish mpg, but when I towed a trailer down to phoenix it dropped to 10mpg as an average. On a couple of the climbs I was getting 5!

 

[WILDHOBO]

I agree with you. The Lightning is a gimmick. The Rivian has a range of 280 miles (per the articel I linked to) that then drops to 108 miles. I am not surprised by that. My gladiator gets 16ish mpg, but when I towed a trailer down to phoenix it dropped to 10mpg as an average. On a couple of the climbs I was getting 5!

My parents have the quad motor Mack daddy rivian, and it’s 335 miles. The dual motor was just under 400 miles of range.

 

[WestwallNF104A]

My parents have the quad motor Mack daddy rivian, and it’s 335 miles. The dual motor was just under 400 miles of range.

I like everything about the Rivian except the front end! It reminds me of a character from a kids TV show!

 

[WILDHOBO]

I like everything about the Rivian except the front end! It reminds me of a character from a kids TV show!

Cosmetically, it’s not my thing either. I didn’t know it had a front trunk though. That’s pretty great. I didn’t use it as an example because I’m a rivian fan boy. I’m not. I used the example to describe what’s possible with the EV tech that exists today. They drove it from central Colorado to Santa Fe without needing to charge, and without using brakes. That’s pretty compelling. We’ve had three pure electrics and three PHEVs including our current one. We switched ti PHEV a few years ago to deal with range, but that’s when the big ranges were just over 200. We’ll go back to full electric for daily driving pretty soon. As soon as the recon is on lots for test driving, I’ll be there ti check it out. But I won’t pre order something I can’t see. To address solar, our previous home was a two EV home, no ICE, and we put solar on the roof. We paid for the panels in 3 years, and we’re paying around $400 in electric bills annually. Putting panels on our current home is on my short list.

 

[WestwallNF104A]

Cosmetically, it’s not my thing either. I didn’t know it had a front trunk though. That’s pretty great. I didn’t use it as an example because I’m a rivian fan boy. I’m not. I used the example to describe what’s possible with the EV tech that exists today. They drove it from central Colorado to Santa Fe without needing to charge, and without using brakes. That’s pretty compelling. We’ve had three pure electrics and three PHEVs including our current one. We switched ti PHEV a few years ago to deal with range, but that’s when the big ranges were just over 200. We’ll go back to full electric for daily driving pretty soon. As soon as the recon is on lots for test driving, I’ll be there ti check it out. But I won’t pre order something I can’t see. To address solar, our previous home was a two EV home, no ICE, and we put solar on the roof. We paid for the panels in 3 years, and we’re paying around $400 in electric bills annually. Putting panels on our current home is on my short list.

I love solar for household use. It doesn't scale up currently, but my hope is that it eventually will. My problem is I only have 5 months of the year where I would get any power generation. I figured that out by checking the live feed that the city had for the solar panel installation at one of the schools. Summer time was awesome, September was ok, May was ok, but the rest it read near zero.

If the price drops down to where I can do a 14KW install for around 18k it would be worth it over the lifespan of the modules. But at the 29k I was quoted it basically pencils out that I save 6000 bucks over the life of the system.

The simple cost of money says that that's not going to fly.

 

[WILDHOBO]

I love solar for household use. It doesn't scale up currently, but my hope is that it eventually will. My problem is I only have 5 months of the year where I would get any power generation. I figured that out by checking the live feed that the city had for the solar panel installation at one of the schools. Summer time was awesome, September was ok, May was ok, but the rest it read near zero.

If the price drops down to where I can do a 14KW install for around 18k it would be worth it over the lifespan of the modules. But at the 29k I was quoted it basically pencils out that I save 6000 bucks over the life of the system.

The simple cost of money says that that's not going to fly.

Our last system was 14kw and it cost 18.5k after the 30% tax credit.

 

[WestwallNF104A]

Our last system was 14kw and it cost 18.5k after the 30% tax credit.

You have competition in your area. We have one solar provider with a 2nd one trying to get set up here. So they get to control the prices currently

 

[WILDHOBO]

You have competition in your area. We have one solar provider with a 2nd one trying to get set up here. So they get to control the prices currently

I’m also going to try wind generation. The tornado style is intriguing. We get serious wind year round and that style would allow me to mount it just high enough to not have someone put a hand in it.

 

[texanjeeper]

Try contributing to the forum instead of being a raving lunatic

San Diego. Yep.

 

[WILDHOBO]

San Diego. Yep.

If we're pointing fingers at where people live, enjoy your distributed power grid system. That’s worked great for Texas. (Insert sarcastic tone)

 

[WestwallNF104A]

I’m also going to try wind generation. The tornado style is intriguing. We get serious wind year round and that style would allow me to mount it just high enough to not have someone put a hand in it.

There is a guy who tried it in the Washoe and he only used it for about a year before he shut it down. His was the normal style blade, not the new advanced designs they have and he said he hated the constant beating sound.

The newer blade designs shouldn't have that issue.

 

[BourbonRunner]

And to be honest, there shouldn't be an argument at all. EV's have a long way to go before they can ever supplant ICE cars. That is just a fact.

But the truly pressing issue is the lack of power plants being built to support them.

I can't remember how long it has been since a real power plant has been built. But it is years.

Not one of the solar, or wind plants can provide the power to the grid without a natural gas powered backup.

That too is a fact. One that these folks are either unaware of, or are ignoring.

We all love technology. I know I do. I want EV's to take over, but they won't until they are ready.

Bingo. I'm all in favor of EV as well, the tech is amazing even in its infancy but I want the decision to buy it to be made by ME, not a bureaucrat and definitely not before it is ready for prime time and not at the cost of everything else.

I speak from a position of expertise in the matter as I have been intimately involved with the legislative efforts to completely electrify our grid.

The capacity for generation of green energy is still not there and won't be for some time.

13% of total power generation in my state is renewable, including solar, hydro, wind, biomass, and recapture of landfill gasses and waste-to-energy. Further refining that, about 6% is solar, less than 1.5% is wind, and the balance of the remaining is the aforementioned sources. Yet we import 75% of the renewable energy from other states. 73% of the total power generation here is from combined nuclear and natural gas, and 14% coal.

Our largest utility has stated without equivocation that in order to support the projected electrical needs of its service area in Central Maryland, it will need approximately 230-250 additional substations (additional generation capacity notwithstanding) and would cost between $35B-55B+ depending on whether the state allows existing gas infrastructure to continue to be used or abandoned and replaced entirely by electric.

This figure from the utility does not account for the cost of each of us potentially being forced to replace our gas and oil furnaces with heat pumps or stoves, water heaters, etc. But I can tell you in an emergency last week I had a heat pump installed in a rental property for the low low price of $14K.

Each of those substations requires 2-3 acres minimum. In my home county, there is less than 2% of all land available to be built on for any purpose. The utility has the ability to use eminent domain to take property if need be but to be very clear from their govt affairs staff: They don't want to have to use ED at all. They cannot quantify the cost the inevitable lawsuits over land taking, etc would cost but the back of the napkin math discussed over beers is expected to be in the 9-10 figure range.

Now, if you can get the rabid anti-nuclear activists out of the picture, that is an angle that can and will remove our reliance on fossil fuels entirely.

And yet I addressed this, and you ignored me. There’s a reason enough solar and wind farms aren’t being built. And it’s people saying no to them. Then those same people use the lack of power to claim that solar and wind don’t work. You are one of those people.

To the contrary.

The reason they're not getting built is because they are either too expensive for the generation capability provided, have ancillary deleterious effects (wind power and migrating birds, life span and inability to recycle the windmills, access to rare earth minerals for panels, batteries, etc to scale up to the capability required), there isn't enough land available to make them make economic sense where it is needed, environmental concerns about the stations themselves, etc. It isn't just nimbyism.

Where it does make sense is solar on your roof if you're in the Sunbelt especially. And as Tesla further refines the solar roof tiles, I expect to see it become even more common.

BTW: I checked with Tesla a year ago on a traditional panel install on our roof. Wouldn't generate enough to make it worthwhile for us given our attitude to the sun. Damned shame because I'm all for it.

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