How big of a winch do I really need?

[Lost1wing]

I totally agree with buying quality. I’d rather have a 8k warn than a 12k HF. But I want extra power for those really bad situations. I’ve found time sensitivity to be a real thing in recovery. Sometimes there’s not time to do anything but hook it up and pull, or your friend is rolling off of a dune.

I’m not arguing that an 8k can lift my 6.2k Jeep. I’m sure it will. But I choose to have that extra power for the terribles. But that doesn’t make you wrong.

I have a 12k Warn, an 8k Warn, a 12k Apex, and a 12k Badlands. I use them all frequently. I don’t have a preferred winch. Which ever vehicle is easiest to get to is the winch I use. The 12k Badland is mounted on my trailer. I have been using it almost weekly and it is over 6 years old sitting out in the weather. I kind of thought Warn is made in China now, right next to the Badland factory. Just kidding about their proximity. The Apex 12k wireless feature is perfect. Warn however had a recall with the remotes corroding and possibly having a winch command signal randomly. That knocks out Warn for QC. Warn did replace the remote with a wired remote. They tossed in a $100 coupon for Warn gear. I bought the new wireless remote with my coupon.

I did have an issue at about year 3. The power cables corroded severely. I replaced them with marine battery cables and it has been fine since.

Some people complain about the force required to free spool the cable on the Apex. It is hard but no harder than my 8k Warn ( m8000).

You will see more Badlands out in the woods being used than Warn.

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[ShadowsPapa]

After checking out a lot of reviews and videos, I didn't feel like paying double for a name.
According to Wrangler and Bronco people - the only down side is the warranty.
I checked Wrangler forums before buying.

I like the fact the control is either wired OR wireless - with the same control.

 

[Zachanadandy]

Most winch manufacturers use the same motor for their winch lines. The larger capacity means more gear reduction. Not only does going bigger give you the capacity to not have to use snatch blocks all the time or have to spool all the line out to get enough pulling power, the extra gearing means slower and more controlled pulls. The idea that there's more danger with a bigger winch is the opposite of reality in my experience. Snatch blocks are great, but they add more potential failure points and typically the larger winch also comes with stronger line. Using an undersized winch is far more dangerous than an over sized one. Perfectly happy with the 13.5k pound winch on the JT and I've yet to ever need a snatch block even though I carry one just in case.

 

[WILDHOBO]

I think you'll find internally, the HF winches are pretty nice, and decently built. There's a guy out there who abused the crap out of his - bent the winch plate and twisted the winch a bit. He takes it apart on the bench and shows the internals and so on - nothing to suggest you'll be stranded just because of the HF brand. These days - I really wonder - is it a name for the most part?
A lot of people have used the HF winches on a pretty regular basis - I tend to think people are overlooking a quality winch just because of a name or stigma - "my Jeep peers will laugh if I won't buy a warn".

I don’t trust their electrical. And there’s really no way those planetaries are built as well. I’ll keep buying Warn.

 

[WILDHOBO]

I've been using Warn and Superwinch for a long - long time. Ramsey a little too. Decades, actually. Nearly 50 years.

I'm totally a Warn fanboy to this day. And I am an old man and could give a rats ass about impressing my friends. I just use what works and I have a long history with.

HF winch if that is what you can afford. I hear that they are good.

I’m with you. They’re maybe good, but they’re not great. Not great tires, fine. Not great shocks, also fine. Safety and recovery? I’m going with the gold standard.

 

[WILDHOBO]

I have a 12k Warn, an 8k Warn, a 12k Apex, and a 12k Badlands. I use them all frequently. I don’t have a preferred winch. Which ever vehicle is easiest to get to is the winch I use. The 12k Badland is mounted on my trailer. I have been using it almost weekly and it is over 6 years old sitting out in the weather. I kind of thought Warn is made in China now, right next to the Badland factory. Just kidding about their proximity. The Apex 12k wireless feature is perfect. Warn however had a recall with the remotes corroding and possibly having a winch command signal randomly. That knocks out Warn for QC. Warn did replace the remote with a wired remote. They tossed in a $100 coupon for Warn gear. I bought the new wireless remote with my coupon.

I did have an issue at about year 3. The power cables corroded severely. I replaced them with marine battery cables and it has been fine since.

Some people complain about the force required to free spool the cable on the Apex. It is hard but no harder than my 8k Warn ( m8000).

You will see more Badlands out in the woods being used than Warn.

That was the Evo series though. The zeons are wireless as well and did not have that recall.

 

[Zachanadandy]

I’m with you. They’re maybe good, but they’re not great. Not great tires, fine. Not great shocks, also fine. Safety and recovery? I’m going with the gold standard.

So the only contract with the road, that provides 100% of your traction 100% of the time you'll cheap out on but the item you'll rarely use you need the gold standard as their Chinese made planetaries just have to be better than the other guys Chinese made planetaries because they cost more? Half the winch shootouts I've read over the years end with the warn winch broken... but it still gets 1st place as they throw in a bunch of fluff points for packaging and clarity of instructions. That's what happens when your one of the major sponsors of all those magazines. You win not because you're better you buy titles to further convince people your big red W means something. Like your Chinese made winch is better than the other Chinese made winch because you charge more for it or used to be American made. Even their high end models are American assembled with foreign motors, solenoids, etc.

 

[OldButStillJeeping]

Most winch manufacturers use the same motor for their winch lines. The larger capacity means more gear reduction. Not only does going bigger give you the capacity to not have to use snatch blocks all the time or have to spool all the line out to get enough pulling power, the extra gearing means slower and more controlled pulls. The idea that there's more danger with a bigger winch is the opposite of reality in my experience. Snatch blocks are great, but they add more potential failure points and typically the larger winch also comes with stronger line. Using an undersized winch is far more dangerous than an over sized one. Perfectly happy with the 13.5k pound winch on the JT and I've yet to ever need a snatch block even though I carry one just in case.

So, same motor just different planetary gears? Might be true. I don't care enuf to challenge that, so let's just say that it is true:

But, there's no more danger in a bigger winch?

A 13,500 winch will rip your bumper off. Or bend your frame.

Show me a 13K winch mount for a JT. A Jt won't handle a 13K load from a central winch point. You will bend the frame.

You aren't thinking it through.

Somehow, many think that a huge winch is the best. You have to think about the vehicle frame.

When Jeep offers 13K or 16K winches on their trucks, then you are good. I think the RAM Power Wagon has a 12K. As does Ford on their Super Duties.

"You'll shoot your eye out"

Many folks DO NOT understand the pulling force of a winch. It will tear your truck apart. No joke.

 

[Zachanadandy]

So, same motor just different planetary gears? Might be true. I don't care enuf to challenge that, so let's just say that it is true:

But, there's no more danger in a bigger winch?

A 13,500 winch will rip your bumper off. Or bend your frame.

Show me a 13K winch mount for a JT. A Jt won't handle a 13K load from a central winch point. You will bend the frame.

You aren't thinking it through.

Everyone who runs a tiny winch says "just use a snatch block...or 2. That's 16-24k pounds. As far as bending the frame, maybe if you bolted the middle of the frame to something and started winching upwards at an angle? In the real world most of that force is on the axles, tires, etc that are what's stock in the mud anyway. Sure in a straight line pull a winch with more power could do more damage, add a single snatch block to an 8k and it's pulling harder. Rarely do you need a 12k+ pound pull, but often you'll find an 8k stalling out in my experience. Again I'd rather just hook up a straight pull to the nearest solid anchor and be on my way. I'm pretty sure the bumper on my rig said up to a 14k pound winch. The power wagons come with a 16.5k pound winch if I remember right. Better to have and not need and also a straight pull is safer than a multi- line pull. Clearly I have actually thought it thru and have decades of real world use that has me running a large winch on purpose. We were snapping the 10k pound rope in the pic below, dragging all 4 wheels on dry pavement, and 0 deflection in the bumper or frame. No a 13.5k won't rip your bumper off.

 

[OldButStillJeeping]

Bigger isn't better. They say one and a half times the vehicle weight for a reason.

 

[Zachanadandy]

Bigger isn't better. They say one and a half times the vehicle weight for a reason.

Who's they? Most say 1.5-2x anyway. And you're not always pulling out your own vehicle. Do you just abandon the guy in the stuck F250 because you bought a toy sized winch? Under your logic nobody should use a snatch block ever because they'll rip the bumper off and destroy the frame....

 

[ShadowsPapa]

So, same motor just different planetary gears? Might be true. I don't care enuf to challenge that, so let's just say that it is true:

But, there's no more danger in a bigger winch?

A 13,500 winch will rip your bumper off. Or bend your frame.

Show me a 13K winch mount for a JT. A Jt won't handle a 13K load from a central winch point. You will bend the frame.

You aren't thinking it through.

Somehow, many think that a huge winch is the best. You have to think about the vehicle frame.

When Jeep offers 13K or 16K winches on their trucks, then you are good. I think the RAM Power Wagon has a 12K. As does Ford on their Super Duties.

"You'll shoot your eye out"

Many folks DO NOT understand the pulling force of a winch. It will tear your truck apart. No joke.

How is it going to rip the bumper off? It's mounted to a winch plate bolted to spots on the frame that are very unlikely to bend because the bumper is a cross-beam across the front.
I've seen guys rip up and bend winch plates - Jeep frame and bumper ok. You don't run fast and constant. That's the point of a slower winch and control.

I've never seen any of the comparisons ever talk of destroyed planetaries. Those are very unlikely to go- in part because of the design of a planetary gear set. They are strong as heck, a lot of teeth on multiple gears making contact and holding the stress. Planetary gear sets are crazy strong.

Bigger isn't better. They say one and a half times the vehicle weight for a reason.

That "formula" is saying you need this much, not "don't go over this much".
It's you need this much, not that you don't ever need or want more.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Who's they? Most say 1.5-2x anyway. And you're not anyways pulling out your own vehicle. Do you just abandon the guy in the stuck F250 because you bought a toy sized winch?

Exactly - I bought mine-- like I do a lot of things I get - for me, but if I can help someone else, it's a bonus. I figured I'd use mine more for other things and other people more than me.

 

[OldButStillJeeping]

Thank you, Zach and Shadows. Evidently, My decades of winching mean nothing and you can consider me full-of-shit online.

That's fine. My experience means nothing and you folks are just an AI illusion in a Jeep forum.

An 8K winch is perfect for a JT. I have it. I use it.The rest is up to you all to decide.

 

[OldButStillJeeping]

Who's they? Most say 1.5-2x anyway. And you're not always pulling out your own vehicle. Do you just abandon the guy in the stuck F250 because you bought a toy sized winch? Under your logic nobody should use a snatch block ever because they'll rip the bumper off and destroy the frame....

The snatch block is at different location than the winch line. Beginners question.

You kids keep trying. That is commendable. Hat's off to you.

Get to real world, kids.

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