How do you know you need a dual battery setup?

[bolingde]

Unfortunately those Jackery batteries and others like it won’t last very long. Probably not the whole night depending on the temps. Then how are you going to charge it back up?? Jackery’s are good for charging your cell phone and possible a portable fridge but not a heater.

Couldn't you charge the Jackery from the JT while under power? I've always kind of worry about use using a vehicle to power anything while not running.

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[mortalsphere]

Yeah anyone trying to run an electric heater from a battery is going to be disappointed. I recently talked my dad out of something similar in his greenhouse.

As for what 400 watts will get you in an inverter...

It could charge most devices, run most lights, fill up an air mattress, power a most household electronics (TVs, laptops, etc). I wouldn’t use it without running the engine, though.

Thanks, Alans17. That gives me a good idea. After a bit of research I can now grasp how to look at watts and amps, etc.,

Can you connect the bed outlet (which I think is very nice, with its color change and magnetic safety) to an aux battery, or must it be wired to the starter/main battery?

 

[Alans17]

The bed outlet is wired to the onboard inverter, which in turn is wired to the main battery by default. If by “aux battery”, you mean the little secondary one for start/stop, that’s not happening.

But if you mean something like Genesis, then the whole electrical system should load balance across both batteries, including the bed outlet and anything hooked to the aux switches.

 

[LostWoods]

Dual batteries in a daily driver are really a luxury that IMO is not worth the weight and headache. Yeah it's nice having it all integrated but it's not hard to build largely the same setup using a Jackery or similar which will allow for portable power in an emergency instead of restricting it to your truck.

It used to be that if you were wheeling and winching all day and running powerful off road lights through the night, you'd need a dual battery setup just to keep up. Fortunately with a 270A alternator and a significantly oversized AGM battery, it's not necessary for anyone but that 1% of off roaders really hitting it that hard.

If it's a dedicated trail rig, I think there's room for discussion but really, a dual battery doesn't accomplish anything a portable battery and jumper pack does not.

 

[mortalsphere]

The bed outlet is wired to the onboard inverter, which in turn is wired to the main battery by default. If by “aux battery”, you mean the little secondary one for start/stop, that’s not happening.

But if you mean something like Genesis, then the whole electrical system should load balance across both batteries, including the bed outlet and anything hooked to the aux switches.

Sorry, "aux battery" probably wasn't the best term. I did mean something like a Genesis or legitimate second battery. I realized as soon as I asked the question that I didn't phrase it right. I really meant to ask if you could easily transfer the wiring for the factory-installed outlet from the starter battery to the secondary battery, assuming it is in the engine compartment.

Dual batteries in a daily driver are really a luxury that IMO is not worth the weight and headache. Yeah it's nice having it all integrated but it's not hard to build largely the same setup using a Jackery or similar which will allow for portable power in an emergency instead of restricting it to your truck.

It used to be that if you were wheeling and winching all day and running powerful off road lights through the night, you'd need a dual battery setup just to keep up. Fortunately with a 270A alternator and a significantly oversized AGM battery, it's not necessary for anyone but that 1% of off roaders really hitting it that hard.

If it's a dedicated trail rig, I think there's room for discussion but really, a dual battery doesn't accomplish anything a portable battery and jumper pack does not.

Thanks for chiming in, LostWoods. I'm not really concerned with an emergency here. I'm a better contingency planner than most, and that's an entirely different conversation. I'm mainly concerned about how to run routine, day-to-day electrical devices in the bed, such as heated blankets for a dog, a winch, off road/fog lights, and maybe some other things. I don't think all of that could be run by a Jackery. At least, not for very long. The Jackery would run out soon and I'd have to charge it from the Gladiator's battery anyways, so it's portability is limited without lots of sun for the solar panels. It's a good backup option for some things, though. Plus, it's entirely possible I'd need to use all of the aforementioned extras at the same time, even if it's not an emergency (pulling someone out of a ditch during a winter night). What do you think? Am I wrong, could I actually run all of that simultaneously from the single main battery for hours? Well, not the winch for hours... But the rest.

You have a good point about AGM batteries. I think it's a downfall of the Genesis system that it can only use Group 25 batteries, but space is limited and even those have great capability. But a "DIY" approach allows you to take full advantage of the best batteries out there. Plus, with the dual battery setup your jumper pack is already there, either in a Genesis-like system or with a removable/movable second battery and an Anderson plug, for instance. Unplug the second battery (if you have to), jump yourself, plug it back in.

Really, the Genesis system seems like a great "set and forget" route, but it's just so expensive when you factor in the batteries and the screen.

 

[LostWoods]

Thanks for chiming in, LostWoods. I'm not really concerned with an emergency here. I'm a better contingency planner than most, and that's an entirely different conversation. I'm mainly concerned about how to run routine, day-to-day electrical devices in the bed, such as heated blankets for a dog, a winch, off road/fog lights, and maybe some other things. I don't think all of that could be run by a Jackery. At least, not for very long. The Jackery would run out soon and I'd have to charge it from the Gladiator's battery anyways, so it's portability is limited without lots of sun for the solar panels. It's a good backup option for some things, though. Plus, it's entirely possible I'd need to use all of the aforementioned extras at the same time, even if it's not an emergency (pulling someone out of a ditch during a winter night). What do you think? Am I wrong, could I actually run all of that simultaneously from the single main battery for hours? Well, not the winch for hours... But the rest.

You have a good point about AGM batteries. I think it's a downfall of the Genesis system that it can only use Group 25 batteries, but space is limited and even those have great capability. But a "DIY" approach allows you to take full advantage of the best batteries out there. Plus, with the dual battery setup your jumper pack is already there, either in a Genesis-like system or with a removable/movable second battery and an Anderson plug, for instance. Unplug the second battery (if you have to), jump yourself, plug it back in.

Really, the Genesis system seems like a great "set and forget" route, but it's just so expensive when you factor in the batteries and the screen.

There is no battery system you can fit under the hood that will match the Jackery's capacity so I would forget that idea right out the gate. To hit that capacity you're talking group 31 sized lithium batteries or multi-battery setups that would need to go in the bed or in the cab somewhere.

Dual group 25 give you 118Ah (so ~60Ah usable max if you don't isolate or half that if you do). The Jackery 1000 will realistically give you 50Ah usable on top of the 30Ah you can draw from the starter battery but you can get as much as 80Ah out of one if you drive long days and/or supplement with wall power or solar.

There's a lot more to get into that frankly is better said elsewhere than I could post in this limited space but IMO, unless you have accessories that hit hard and don't allow for recovery, the Jackery design is probably better at a very comparable price. I mean the Genesis system with batteries is more than the 1000 before you add an inverter and by the time you do, you're into 1500 territory. Personaly, I'm just going for the latter as soon as I can find stock and any kind of discount.

 

[mortalsphere]

There is no battery system you can fit under the hood that will match the Jackery's capacity so I would forget that idea right out the gate. To hit that capacity you're talking group 31 sized lithium batteries or multi-battery setups that would need to go in the bed or in the cab somewhere.

Dual group 25 give you 118Ah (so ~60Ah usable max if you don't isolate or half that if you do). The Jackery 1000 will realistically give you 50Ah usable on top of the 30Ah you can draw from the starter battery but you can get as much as 80Ah out of one if you drive long days and/or supplement with wall power or solar.

There's a lot more to get into that frankly is better said elsewhere than I could post in this limited space but IMO, unless you have accessories that hit hard and don't allow for recovery, the Jackery design is probably better at a very comparable price. I mean the Genesis system with batteries is more than the 1000 before you add an inverter and by the time you do, you're into 1500 territory. Personaly, I'm just going for the latter as soon as I can find stock and any kind of discount.

Man, honestly you've got me thinking about it now. haha! If you got one of the larger capacity Jackerys, you could use it as a backup for your house if the power/heat went off. Recharging it on the road still bothers me, as well as cold weather performance, but I can't imagine running it empty in a day with what I'd use it for. You can even run something like a Warn winch with it. Pretty cool, honestly. Thanks for helping me see that in a different light.

 

[AmishMike]

Not sure how cold or what kind of dog, we have a Cozy-Cave dog bed for our GSP but not all dogs like them. The key will be insulating from the steel floor more so than the top. I have spent many a night with the dog in the bed of a truck with a fiberglass cap on. What about pre-heating the bed with a plug in type blanket while driving then you could throw on a Buddy type heater for a short time before actual bed. Those heaters are quite versatile.
As far as the Toyota vs. the Gladiator, well the Jeep has a bigger back seat than the Tacoma but probably not the Tundra. The Gladiator is definitely more fun! (I have owned 3 Hi-Lux, a T100 and had several Tacos in the family.)

 

[mortalsphere]

Thanks, @AmishMike. In some respects, this is all theoretical because my family and I haven't moved yet. We are very interested in Alaska, actually, but our move is coming at the end of the year. But we are familiar with cold weather and snow, despite living in Georgia now. I was thinking something similar... Insulating the bed and cap, using heated blankets, then running a Buddy type heater if needed.

Regarding getting a Toyota, I'm still test driving the Tundra on Friday but it's really already a done deal. I'm getting a Gladiator for a few reasons. It's smaller, more fuel efficient, better offroad, better tech, more versatile... Eh, you get the idea.

I emailed the Jackery staff and they said that Jackery storage and charge temperature range is from 32 - 104F, and discharge is between 14 - 104F. That's pretty good, but it sometimes gets below 32F in Savannah where I am now. And this place is hot. Goal Zero might be better with cold, but I'm still researching. Yeti recommends keeping a portable power station in a cooler, so the natural heat given off through dis/charging warms the unit.

 

[AmishMike]

@mortalsphere What about a rechargeable heated coat that the dog could lay on? Some of my guys where Milwaukee heated jackets. They run for several hours on rechargeable tool batteries; the M12 will run for a claimed 8 hours. Lower voltage so less of a worry if the dog eats it. Easily washed and shared with you (until the wife realizes that you and the dog have heated coats and she does not). Same battery as smaller tools. Maybe some deals out there this time of year.
Look into automotive insulation, I like the foam that is aluminized on both sides. I have used it on many a hot rod/custom. The foam doesn't hold moisture, comes in 3 foot wide rolls and could be glued to the inside of a cap. You could get fancy and glue some to 1/4 inch plywood that is made to fit the bed so that it is removable. Could also just make an insulated box for the dog.

 

[Jaxmax]

OK, the heater could be a Dickinson Newport P9000 direct vent freplace, runs a long time on a 5lb. propane bottle, safe to use in a confined space as exhaust is ducted outside and sucks air for combustion into sealed heater, people use them in boats. You are going to live in Alaska, it gets colder then Georgia. Someone just posted in overlanding section of installing it in his aluma camper on Gladiaator. It's not cheap, but I so want to justify it for my Mojave with cap... dickinsonmarine.com .......Jack

 

[itsdapk]

Dual batteries in a daily driver are really a luxury that IMO is not worth the weight and headache. Yeah it's nice having it all integrated but it's not hard to build largely the same setup using a Jackery or similar which will allow for portable power in an emergency instead of restricting it to your truck.

It used to be that if you were wheeling and winching all day and running powerful off road lights through the night, you'd need a dual battery setup just to keep up. Fortunately with a 270A alternator and a significantly oversized AGM battery, it's not necessary for anyone but that 1% of off roaders really hitting it that hard.

If it's a dedicated trail rig, I think there's room for discussion but really, a dual battery doesn't accomplish anything a portable battery and jumper pack does not.

If you are running a fridge it is definitely needed. I always run 2-3 batteries on all my vehicles for lights, stereo, arb fridge, etc. Never really have to worry about battery problems.

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