I have some time to decide. opinions wanted. LTX or HEMI

[jwolfejt]

So there's a few swapping companies out there. Bruisers, AMW4x4, RubiTrux (pretty sure they just install AMW kits). I'm not seeing a powertrain platform in the future of the gladiator worth holding out for. I like my Mojave and want to keep till one of us ends in some way. the 3.6 ain't it however. Its a motor, and it works (most of the time). But its the instant mash potatoes of motors as far as I'm concerned. Generally these kits cost in the 35-55k depending on the power your looking for. So I'll list some basic info about what I'm considering and ya'll give that good ol' $0.02 bout it.

Bruisers - LX3 6.6 V8 550HP - stock trans (yikes) - $34k (for a stock trans setup, oof) - plug n' play - 93 pump gas

AMW4x4 opt 1 - 5.7 HEMI V8 395HP 410FT-LB (do ya need more?) - 8HP750 trans (nice) - 34k (still a kick in the pants) - plug n' play - 88 pump gas

AMW4x4 opt 2 - 6.4 SRT HEMI V8 505 HP 475FT-LB (thats alot) - 8HP750 trans (nice) - 36k ish (is the extra power worth the small price change?) - plug n' play - 91 pump gas

DIY - source a LS 5.3 and figure it out. (easy way to ruin a 50k truck and end up on jack stands for a decade, lol)

Magnusson - 3 LKQ spare motors to go with it - need to source a different ECM- 20k


Edit: as far as I'm aware the AMW kits require a 2in lift. This will be 392 Wrangler springs, I already have LCAs on the truck, 2in bumpstop spacers to keep my hydros, and then paired with an appropriate FOX Elite 2.5 tuned for this setup by accutune. It will still be for all intents and purposes an OEM+ Mojave. As if Jeep released a 392 Mojave as an option.

Going from the JT to the power wagon i can tell you the hemi will not disappoint in my 7600+lb truck the 6.4 scoots it along really well and the exhaust note is best in the business - i don't think there is a modern V8 that sounds as good as the gen 3 hemi's (especially the apache/eagle hemis). https://photos.app.goo.gl/hj1ghihc1rmnnTQJ9 - flowmaster fx cold start.

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[BourbonRunner]

@bleda2002 @BourbonRunner , From FCP euro. I'd figure the beemer boys would know since they have the same trans we do

As a faithful customer of FCP, I should have known they'd have the answers! Thanks.

Jeep and BMW owners have a lot in common- Primarily the massive amounts of credit card debt related to the absurd amount we throw at our vehicles.

 

[jwolfejt]

As a faithful customer of FCP, I should have known they'd have the answers! Thanks.

Jeep and BMW owners have a lot in common- Primarily the massive amounts of credit card debt related to the absurd amount we throw at our vehicles.

I can absolutely relate - i've dumped insane amounts of money and time into BMW's before realizing they were cheaply made (mostly plastic, crap connectors and insane maintenance items such as rod bearings in some cases). They make things that sound awesome on paper but are terrible to own (N63) - the E60 M5 is such a great driving car (especially the manual) - however its a terrible car to own (huge pain to work on and all the parts are massively expensive, and its terribly sensitive to maintenance - I can't believe BMW would tell its customers that rod bearings are a "maintenance item" lol).

 

[BourbonRunner]

I can absolutely relate - i've dumped insane amounts of money and time into BMW's before realizing they were cheaply made (mostly plastic, crap connectors and insane maintenance items such as rod bearings in some cases). They make things that sound awesome on paper but are terrible to own (N63) - the E60 M5 is such a great driving car (especially the manual) - however its a terrible car to own (huge pain to work on and all the parts are massively expensive, and its terribly sensitive to maintenance - I can't believe BMW would tell its customers that rod bearings are a "maintenance item" lol).

BMW ownership is not for the faint of wallet and certainly not for everyone in spite of the marketing. The infamous rod bearings issue aside, the reality is they are high performance machines marketed to the general public with an intense maintenance schedule that must be followed to ensure it doesn't wind up in a junk yard.

Problem is most of the owners out there are status seekers and dump them at the first A service not covered under warranty, or they skip them and wonder why they're stranded on the side of the road.

I say this as someone who daily drove a nearly 20 year old e46 for 3 years up until this past summer, and formerly had a 200K+ mile e34, and spent some track time in e36's and countless hours wrenching on them. I get it.

The old straight 6 BMWs were far superior to anything they've done in a turbo motor except the B58. The V8's were incredible- when they ran properly. But you can't just fire it up and forget to change the oil for 50K miles like a Camry or Accord. And those motors, especially the old NA straight sixes and V8's need to be wound up regularly. You have to DRIVE it.

And if you have one well maintained, especially older pre-Bangle butt era cars like e46's and e39's, you have one of the most rewarding driving experiences out there short of 911 or anything from Maranello. IE: My e46 gives me a big smile every time I take it out.

That being said, my aforementioned e46 is going to the BMW hospital later today for a random SES. Because it hates me and my money.

 

[vst]

I’m curious what happens with the 3.6 and tranny once pulled out? Do you keep it sell it?

 

[PuddleJumper]

I’m curious what happens with the 3.6 and tranny once pulled out? Do you keep it sell it?

i'd sell it or keep it as spares for my rubicon

 

[Zachanadandy]

As much as I love the gladiator, I can't see dropping $40k on a powertrain swap. That puts the thing at loaded trx cost, with much less power, far less suspension, and half the resale value. If I'm going to have $100k into a truck, I'll take the super truck that's resale value is much more in line with the cost. I could see going the supercharger route as the value for cost is realistic. $30k+ engine swaps? To each his own I guess.

 

[PuddleJumper]

As much as I love the gladiator, I can't see dropping $40k on a powertrain swap. That puts the thing at loaded trx cost, with much less power, far less suspension, and half the resale value. If I'm going to have $100k into a truck, I'll take the super truck that's resale value is much more in line with the cost. I could see going the supercharger route as the value for cost is realistic. $30k+ engine swaps? To each his own I guess.

power to weight is better. Suspension is arguable, especially with the gladiator having far more support to do things a TRX can only dream of, Solid axle or not. Resale i don't think is a concern to anyone who actually beats on thier Jeep or is going the extra mile to get a V8. and considering AMW4x4 doesn't sell a pre swapped truck for under 115k. You could easily sell at 75-90k depending on your condition. Which is about as equal to a new deisel. A TRX also doesn't fit in my garage and they get get stolen too often to leave outside. 15 mins alone in NOVA and you'd have a ram 1500 frame on blocks left. If i was gonna upsize to a bigger truck, the power wagon is a better buy imo. or a Tremor F250. the 1/2 ton segment is just small enough you'll try to get it down tighter trails and regret it but still doesn't have the tow or payload capacity to really build it the way you want. I moved from a Tundra TRD Rock Warrior for a reason. 1/2 tons are on odd segment if your gonna actually wheel hard but still wanna overland. and because everything is upsized but not upsized enough. You find yourself trying to put 3/4 and 1 ton parts to keep your 1/2 ton able to handle all your shit and offroad abuse. Its get insanely expensive real quick. I spent 20k on repair alone in 1 year with my Tundra. I'd take a Raptor over TRX in most of my use case cus its a bit smaller, has more support, and has better hardware on the bottom end to start with. My main driving force to the gladiator is because in all honesty its 1/2 parts crammed onto a midsize package. it wasn't long ago that 1/2 pickups had smaller axles and weaker transmissions than what the gladiator has now. But your write, it really boils down to the owner. But if you want a light weight, convertible, solid axles front and rear, v8, pickup. there is only one path to get it. You'll never be able to make a TRX excel at what a gladiator does, but you can make a gladiator do TRX stuff quite easily while still retaining what makes it a gladiator. At least that's how i see it.

 

[Zachanadandy]

power to weight is better. Suspension is arguable, especially with the gladiator having far more support to do things a TRX can only dream of, Solid axle or not. Resale i don't think is a concern to anyone who actually beats on thier Jeep or is going the extra mile to get a V8. and considering AMW4x4 doesn't sell a pre swapped truck for under 115k. You could easily sell at 75-90k depending on your condition. Which is about as equal to a new deisel. A TRX also doesn't fit in my garage and they get get stolen too often to leave outside. 15 mins alone in NOVA and you'd have a ram 1500 frame on blocks left. If i was gonna upsize to a bigger truck, the power wagon is a better buy imo. or a Tremor F250. the 1/2 ton segment is just small enough you'll try to get it down tighter trails and regret it but still doesn't have the tow or payload capacity to really build it the way you want. I moved from a Tundra TRD Rock Warrior for a reason. 1/2 tons are on odd segment if your gonna actually wheel hard but still wanna overland. and because everything is upsized but not upsized enough. You find yourself trying to put 3/4 and 1 ton parts to keep your 1/2 ton able to handle all your shit and offroad abuse. Its get insanely expensive real quick. I spent 20k on repair alone in 1 year with my Tundra. I'd take a Raptor over TRX in most of my use case cus its a bit smaller, has more support, and has better hardware on the bottom end to start with. My main driving force to the gladiator is because in all honesty its 1/2 parts crammed onto a midsize package. it wasn't long ago that 1/2 pickups had smaller axles and weaker transmissions than what the gladiator has now. But your write, it really boils down to the owner. But if you want a light weight, convertible, solid axles front and rear, v8, pickup. there is only one path to get it. You'll never be able to make a TRX excel at what a gladiator does, but you can make a gladiator do TRX stuff quite easily while still retaining what makes it a gladiator. At least that's how i see it.

I run the mojave pretty hard in the desert and I'll whole heartedly disagree it can do what a TRX or Raptor can when pushing freeway speeds in the dirt. You'd need at least $5-10k in suspension and the $40k engine swap to start getting close. I agree that those long travel trucks are light duty for heavy truck work, but they are still better at medium/heavy truck use than the gladiator. For tight trails and rock crawling the gladiator wins, but you don't need a v8 swap in either of those uses. My 5.7L hemi ram rebel was every bit as good at speed in the desert as the mojave bone stock, it was cheaper, and had way more power. The interior was way more comfortable, the thing towed a 9k lb trailer with the JLUR on it through the rockies like it wasn't there. Hauled a 2500lb pallet no issues. You can buy a full prerunner long travel kit for that truck for $15k with 14" of front travel and 20" rear. The gladiator solid axle will never be that good off road. I'm not trying to talk anyone out of the v8 gladiator build, just discussing the points I see for my own future plans. Not sure I agree on the power to weight either. A swapped/ built JT will be 5500lbs minimum and even if you go 392 you're looking at .085hp/lb. A loaded TRX could push 7k lbs, but with 707hp you're at .1hp/lb. Sure if you hellcat swap the gladiator it shoots well past the TRX there.

 

[PuddleJumper]

I run the mojave pretty hard in the desert and I'll whole heartedly disagree it can do what a TRX or Raptor can when pushing freeway speeds in the dirt. You'd need at least $5-10k in suspension and the $40k engine swap to start getting close. I agree that those long travel trucks are light duty for heavy truck work, but they are still better at medium/heavy truck use than the gladiator. For tight trails and rock crawling the gladiator wins, but you don't need a v8 swap in either of those uses. My 5.7L hemi ram rebel was every bit as good at speed in the desert as the mojave bone stock, it was cheaper, and had way more power. The interior was way more comfortable, the thing towed a 9k lb trailer with the JLUR on it through the rockies like it wasn't there, and it was the same price as the gladiator. You can buy a full prerunner long travel kit for that truck for $15k with 14" of front travel and 20" rear. The gladiator solid axle will never be that good off road. I'm not trying to talk anyone out of the v8 gladiator build, just discussing the points I see for my own future plans.

Your right stock for stock on the quick stuff. but you can get there. And it does boil down to how much sketch can you handle. I like my ride more on wild side, I'm not trying to lose what makes it fun. i don't want 70mph to feel like 30. But i still think my point stands that you can make a gladiator hold pace with a TRX or Raptor while still out wheeling them on the rocks. I've done 80 mph on sand and gravel with lots of whoops and with air time. Its plenty for me but I know where i can get more out of it and i want that more. Going to a TRX albeit the easy way, would still have me compromise, especially with the tight slow rocky trails here on the east coast. I would confine myself to the beaches, doing so just for my peace of mind. I think its easier to justify a bigger truck the farther west you go. But with how i wheel and travel, to me the midsize pickup is about as big as one can go, before find your size is a huge restriction on some trips. I've seen and experienced having to wait or turn around (sometime forcing the whole group to do so) simply because there isn't a safe way to get Ram 1500 where these JLs and 4Rs are going. But like most midsize they come a little lack luster on the power segment. sure a v8 isn't the most cost effective way of doing it. but if you couldn't tell, I don't do compromise if i don't have too. Besides, that moment passing a Raptor doing 15 mph faster while on bigger tires and no doors. The Raptor owners face would make every penny worth it aside from the shit eating grin i'd have cold starting that sucker every morning and smoking plenty of unassuming sports cars at the light. However for your argument, I'd think the Ranger Raptor is the best move. Its cheaper than all other stated options, has the hardware, and the power. No changes needed. But i want 7 bars, and a V8 and a bed. which again, only one way to do it. If ya ever get the chance, drive one. Then you'll realize, if the money wasn't an object, you'd do it too.

 

[wildtaco]

I may have my own shop at the planned time. AMW4x4 is a lot cheaper if you purchase to install yourself.

How much are the kits for DIY?

 

[PuddleJumper]

How much are the kits for DIY?

18k was my last quote. 32k was AMW install with me paying for shipping to them. its 40k if you want to keep your stock motor and trans. If your scared to put down that lump sum even if you have it. You can finance it and have GAP on it. easy way to cover your ass if you think it'll get totaled and insurance won't repay your swap. I wouldn't do that tho. I'd just go to a insurance broker and get a custom plan for your truck when it is done.

 

[Zachanadandy]

Your right stock for stock on the quick stuff. but you can get there. And it does boil down to how much sketch can you handle. I like my ride more on wild side, I'm not trying to lose what makes it fun. i don't want 70mph to feel like 30. But i still think my point stands that you can make a gladiator hold pace with a TRX or Raptor while still out wheeling them on the rocks. I've done 80 mph on sand and gravel with lots of whoops and with air time. Its plenty for me but I know where i can get more out of it and i want that more. Going to a TRX albeit the easy way, would still have me compromise, especially with the tight slow rocky trails here on the east coast. I would confine myself to the beaches, doing so just for my peace of mind. I think its easier to justify a bigger truck the farther west you go. But with how i wheel and travel, to me the midsize pickup is about as big as one can go, before find your size is a huge restriction on some trips. I've seen and experienced having to wait or turn around (sometime forcing the whole group to do so) simply because there isn't a safe way to get Ram 1500 where these JLs and 4Rs are going. But like most midsize they come a little lack luster on the power segment. sure a v8 isn't the most cost effective way of doing it. but if you couldn't tell, I don't do compromise if i don't have too. Besides, that moment passing a Raptor doing 15 mph faster while on bigger tires and no doors. The Raptor owners face would make every penny worth it aside from the shit eating grin i'd have cold starting that sucker every morning and smoking plenty of unassuming sports cars at the light. However for your argument, I'd think the Ranger Raptor is the best move. Its cheaper than all other stated options, has the hardware, and the power. No changes needed. But i want 7 bars, and a V8 and a bed. which again, only one way to do it. If ya ever get the chance, drive one. Then you'll realize, if the money wasn't an object, you'd do it too.

I moved from the ram to the JTM so I obviously agree with some of your points. If money were no object I'd probably have a dozen plus off road vehicles. No matter how built the gladiator wheelbase gives up a lot to a JLU built the same on those tight trails and in the rocks. For open desserts it would be full pro4 truck. Sure there'd be a hellephant swapped mojave because why not? There'd be a full rock bouncer for when I want to do dumb shit in the rocks at speed. A moon buggy fire the most extreme lines in the steepest rocks. Unfortunately I haven't found the billionaire relative to mage that a reality so here I am. It is rewarding to walk away from the raptors and trxs in the desert in my underpowered mojave simply because most of those drivers won't do 90+ in the dirt even though the rigs are capable.

 

[PuddleJumper]

Tha

I moved from the ram to the JTM so I obviously agree with some of your points. If money were no object I'd probably have a dozen plus off road vehicles. No matter how built the gladiator wheelbase gives up a lot to a JLU built the same on those tight trails and in the rocks. For open desserts it would be full pro4 truck. Sure there'd be a hellephant swapped mojave because why not? There'd be a full rock bouncer for when I want to do dumb shit in the rocks at speed. A moon buggy fire the most extreme lines in the steepest rocks. Unfortunately I haven't found the billionaire relative to mage that a reality so here I am. It is rewarding to walk away from the raptors and trxs in the desert in my underpowered mojave simply because most of those drivers won't do 90+ in the dirt even though the rigs are capable.

that’s fair. I plan to have a 3-4 car stable anyway. This is just project 1

 

[Zachanadandy]

Tha

that’s fair. I plan to have a 3-4 car stable anyway. This is just project 1

The wife's JLUR on 39s handles the rocks better than the JT would on 42s so I'm with you there. The JTM is the desert runner. Being my use, if I was spending $100k on A truck it would be TRX. It would be better at everything I use the JTM for. Thanks to the deals on 2023s and the deal I got on the 37s and AEV lift I'm only about half that into the JTM.

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