is 0W-20 really the right oil ?

[ShadowsPapa]

Withou my reading the back and forth I’m sure is happening here. 1.) engineers are smarter then someone who questions oil weight for regular vehicle use. 2.) yes, engines are exponentially built with tighter tolerances and manufacturing perfection every year. 3.) the one that matters the most, VVL. Oil does wayyyy more then lubricate engines components. It. Opens valves, it’s ability to hold the same vesocity under immense pressures, rotate VVT phasers and more. 0w20 and even 0w16 for Toyotas is ideal for these requirements when your running an NA engine. In boosted applications you’ll see those 5w40 and 5w30 weights still since they will experience increased temperatures comparatively.

The voice of logic. It's not viscosity that protects. All that's necessary is for oil to reach the end of the line internally - the last part of the oil flow process. Viscosity is what ensures it gets there. Viscosity does not lubricate. Strength of the oil film does.

As long as there's adequate flow and pressure to get to the last parts - viscosity is ok.
These have a lot tighter tolerances than what people want to compare to from years ago. The oil doesn't "leak out" of the bearing clearances and so on as quick as it did in 1980.
Too high viscosity and there's resistance to flow - it won't get there quickly or enough of it.
Too thin and if the clearances are great, it isn't going to make it to the end of the line.

Thick oil flows more slowly through the bearings, generating more heat, oil gets hotter, doesn't dissipate the heat as well or quickly. The sheer forces of thicker oil also generate heat themselves.

Thinner oil moves more quickly, generates less heat from sheer, and keeps moving cooling the oi more quickly, carrying more heat away from the bearing areas.
The higher flow rate of thinner oil, supplies more oil volume to the main and rod bearings, helping to maintain the wedge of oil formed between the crank journal and bearings.

Heat can be generated just from an oil’s internal shearing action taking place within the oil.

If this matters to anyone - This is from FCA -

It's not oil pressure or viscosity that lubricates, it's the strength of the oil film on parts like followers, etc. and the incompressible liquid oil between the crank journals and bearings - thick or thin, that liquid oil is there, it can't be compressed, it protects.
QUALITY oil will handle higher pressures - more PSI, more load. That's nothing to do with viscosity, that's the base oil quality with the quality of the additive package that determines that.

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[seven30]

Anyone ever considered that manufacturers don't want their product to last forever? When I was a kid, we had the same washer and dryer my entire life, never did anything to them. Been married for 21 years, on my 4th set now...they fail, and it costs more to repair than to replace.
Maybe the auto manufacturers are shooting for a 100K mile target, putting you right in range of a 5-6 year loan payoff and ready to buy again... I am a bit cynical, but if I were the manufacturer, this is a legit strategy.

Well, you probably had an old Maytag. That plant was closed when Maytag was bought out. Modern manufacturing has made it possible to really tighten up clearances. Not only are they designed for thinner oils a thick oil's low flow may not cool the bearing properly. Viscosity does not have much to do with preventing metal to metal wear contrary to common sense. I know my 5.7 Hemi GC will log a code if you put 5w30 in it! I dont have a reader for the Gladiator but I can promise you if you put 5w30 in it it will flag it in the ECU. The dealer will know.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I think Lucas Oil Stabilizer is a mixed bag. Nothing I would even entertain especially in warranty.

You are trying to mask a problem that rarely a "miracle in a bottle" product fixes.

Any quality oil supplier will tell you - adding things to oil can make it protect LESS, mess up their additive package. Testing has proven that.
I'd never ever add anything to oil, I never have, never will. Using a great oil to begin with is the solution, adding things to the oil can take you backwards. Again, testing has shown that to be the general rule - and it's one reason why oil companies say don't do it.

 

[seven30]

Manufacturers ABSOLUTELY design things with a limited lifespan. Planned obsolescence.
Every single part in an automobile is planned and manufactured with economics in mind. They design parts and fasteners and motors to only be as durable as they need to be, not more.
Unless you’re Porsche ?

Tool companies are becoming good at this. Watch some tool tear down videos like what AvE does; newer tools definitely are made more cheaply.

Of course is has a limited life span. Whether 50k or 500k you have to have some design point. But I would not call that planned obsolescence. The idea is to introduce new models that entice buyers. Making a crappy vehicle is a good way to ensure they dont buy your brand again.
To bad our health care system isnt as competitive

 

[seven30]

There's a white paper out there somewhere where there is some literature about the newer 3.6s having valvetrains specifically designed to use 0w20. Something about the oil passages being smaller than they used to be. If I were to get researchy, I'd buy the highest film strength 0w20 I could find. Maybe when the engine gets older, I'll use something thicker.

I have a manual, If you stall it and watch the oil pressure drop its surprising how long it takes. Same thing if you rev past 3k and let it drop to idle. The only real reason I can think of to use a 5w20 over a 0w20 would be if its film strength was significantly better but so far I haven't found that to be the case.

 

[MrZappo]

I can't for the life of me figure out why otherwise intelligent people resort to old wives tales, or 20 years ago a diesel mechanic said something that now has relevance to my modern gas engine nonsense.

Or why many has some desire to "improve" things that are fine left alone.

Or to debate intentionally designed obsolescence. Seriously. Yes they design to a reasonable lifespan which is directly tied to costs, profit, reputation, consumer purchase trends etc.

Please please please someone point to a single pentastar that has had a catastrophic failure due to lubrication while using 0w20 or one that was so worn out at 100k miles (with documented evidence) that it failed or was rendered useless.

Otherwise, everything is hot air and speculation.

I already know that the answer is no.

But I'm sure someone will swear that a buddy who worked for Chrysler knows of one and recommends 5wWhatever contrary to the manufacturer. Because he is "in the know" so must be followed.

0w20 is fine. 5w30 is likely ok. Lucas or other whizbang additives will likely do no harm but also will likely not help either. Probably not needed. Or more clearly, let's just say NOT needed.

Manufacturer recommendation is fine. I guarantee the engine will last just as long. If I'm wrong your can berate me in 20 years or so.

 

[MrZappo]

Well, you probably had an old Maytag. That plant was closed when Maytag was bought out. Modern manufacturing has made it possible to really tighten up clearances. Not only are they designed for thinner oils a thick oil's low flow may not cool the bearing properly. Viscosity does not have much to do with preventing metal to metal wear contrary to common sense. I know my 5.7 Hemi GC will log a code if you put 5w30 in it! I dont have a reader for the Gladiator but I can promise you if you put 5w30 in it it will flag it in the ECU. The dealer will know.

I don't believe you.

You can promise that putting in 5w30 will throw a code ? How would it know ?

 

[seven30]

I don't believe you.

You can promise that putting in 5w30 will throw a code ? How would it know ?

My 2011 5.7 Hemi did EXACTLY that. I put in 5w30 for cam breakin and when monitoring I saw a new DTC. I dont remember the exact wording but it was something like improper oil viscosity. I knows because it monitors pressure and temperature along with pump speed. A given pump speed and temperature will result in a pressure range. Thicker oil will move that pressure range up.
Note, this did NOT throw a check engine light. Just an DTC you need a code reader to access.
But the dealer hooks up to the car every time you bring it in. So rest assured if you use heavy oil they already know.

 

[MrZappo]

My 2011 5.7 Hemi did EXACTLY that. I put in 5w30 for cam breakin and when monitoring I saw a new DTC. I dont remember the exact wording but it was something like improper oil viscosity. I knows because it monitors pressure and temperature along with pump speed. A given pump speed and temperature will result in a pressure range. Thicker oil will move that pressure range up.
Note, this did NOT throw a check engine light. Just an DTC you need a code reader to access.
But the dealer hooks up to the car every time you bring it in. So rest assured if you use heavy oil they already know.

Wow, well news to me. I'd love to know more about that.

 

[seven30]

Wow, well news to me. I'd love to know more about that.

P1521 CHRYSLER Code - Incorrect Engine Oil Type

I used Appcar DiagFCA software in a laptop and the right OBD2 bluetooth adapter to access all that. They sell a per car license or more expensive general license. Originally I bought it to work on the dumb air suspension system and stumbled on the oil DTC by accident. I would assume the 3.6 also monitors since it already has all the sensors.

 

[DanW]

I would love to see proof of this.

The only thing different between a VVT and original Pentastar is the head. And that's only a minor change. Everything else on the VVT has the same part numbers as the original from 2010-2012. Bearings, pistons, rings, rods, oil pump, block. All the same.

Just like in 2013 when they switched from 5w30 to 5w20. Zero changes made to the engine, yet lighter oil. And then we started seeing an increase in follower/cam failures.

Now I'm tempted to pull a valve cover off both my '12 and '21 to look at the oil passages.

Believe what you want. The fact is that ALL of the development work on the PUG was done on 0w20. The heads are where the complexity is anyway in the Pentastar. There are several reasons, including reduced friction, tighter tolerances, smaller oil journals and yes, ESS. But one other big reason is out there......The Pentastar had already specified 5w20 since 2011. No reason under God's sun to even consider spending a dime on messing with 5w30.

I posted an article awhile back that had the dimensions of the oil journals in the head. You can go find it if you want. It'll save you some time pulling heads and getting your calipers in there.

 

[JTinVA]

If I run mobil 1 0w-20 and something happens to motor. Can dealership run oil sample and determine it was Mobil 1 and not penzoil?

 

[Hootbro]

If I run mobil 1 0w-20 and something happens to motor. Can dealership run oil sample and determine it was Mobil 1 and not penzoil?

Oil Sampling is not a thing dealerships do and you would be hard pressed to find a instance of one for a warranty claim. They will go by presented receipts of what oil you claim to have bought/used and other documentation like a maintenance log you may have kept. If purchase receipt dates roughly match time/date of maintenance log, they are not going to be critiquing it too much. Even if you are one to buy oil on sale and stock up, those receipts and a maintenance log kept by you will minimize issues.

I am somewhat of a fan of utilizing the Jeep Wave oil changes as it shows and puts a record of your attempt at following a maintenance regime regardless if you no longer use the dealership and self maintain after the Jeep Wave runs out.

 

[JTinVA]

Oil Sampling is not a thing dealerships do and you would be hard pressed to find a instance of one for a warranty claim. They will go by presented receipts of what oil you claim to have bought/used and other documentation like a maintenance log you may have kept. If purchase receipt dates roughly match time/date of maintenance log, they are not going to be critiquing it too much. Even if you are one to buy oil on sale and stock up, those receipts and a maintenance log kept by you will minimize issues.

I am somewhat of a fan of utilizing the Jeep Wave oil changes as it shows and puts a record of your attempt at following a maintenance regime regardless if you no longer use the dealership and self maintain after the Jeep Wave runs out.

Thank you. I will run mobil 1 then

 

[JTinVA]

I’m pretty sure I have a rocker arm issue. Dealerships are backed up 2 weeks. Figured I would change oil and see if that helps. Only 2500 miles on current oil change which was done at dealership

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