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Jeep Gladiators Burn to Death During Battery Jump

ShadowsPapa

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Well, according to that, I hook the negative up after the positive (but above, they said that order of polarity didn't matter which got hooked up first or last), and the only thing I didn't do the same as that, was hook to an engine ground, instead of the negative terminal of the dead vehicle...

So, even though it will still spark if you touch something under the hood (while connecting it to an engine ground, and you happen to touch something ferrous under there), since it's telling you to do that step LAST, that it will make THAT much difference going directly to a grounding strap, than it will connecting it to the negative terminal of the battery?

I'm seriously asking these questions, I'm not being a smartass... I want to know WHY this is suddenly incorrect in the last 10 years, than it was the previous 120+ that we've had batteries?
There are times I feel sorry for Sheldon Cooper......... this is one. (sort of a personal, inside joke in a way)
I will apologize up front as I have no idea your experience, background, training, whatever - I don't know if you are a person who loves working with electricity or would prefer to avoid it where possible. So I may miss the mark and go too basic, or too far the other way!
I see others have tossed in the first thing - hydrogen. Hindenburg.
Water and acids have oxygen and hydrogen and other compounds in various mixes. When they break down or change state, hydrogen and oxygen may be released. Almost certainly, hydrogen. Very flammable gas. Again, Hindenburg.
Batteries charging OR discharging will generate hydrogen gas, even oxygen gas.
NOT TRYING TO BE SMART - and maybe you got this part but I'll put it here again because hundreds of people besides us will see it....... lurkers, non-members doing a google search.
My wife's GC - she left the tail gate open, it did oddly seem to close on its own at some point, anyway, by the time she wanted to drive it, days had passed. There was little risk because the battery was down for hours if not days, any hydrogen was likely gone in the ambient air moving in the garage.
My car sitting over winter and I forget the battery tender - dead battery come March, likely safe enough....... maybe, hydrogen should be gone by then.
Crank the car until the battery dies, then go to jump it - you have fresh hydrogen and oxygen right there above the down battery. .
Internal short, quickly drains battery, generates hydrogen - perfect explosive mix.

Power will always flow from the battery with the higher voltage to the one with lower voltage. So you have current flow. One is almost like a load, like a motor, and draws current, sort of like a short against the higher voltage battery.

So the idea is to keep the last connection away from any battery, especially one generating hydrogen, because there will be a spark if there's enough difference between the two and the lower battery is seen as a big enough load.
Sorry, not real good at explaining. I can show it, draw it, demonstrate it, but putting it in words so it's not insulting or talking down to - not easy for me.

I guess the summary is that there could be hydrogen - batteries being charged, discharged, whatever, can and do generate hydrogen. It burns really fast and hot - even explosively.
The only way to be dead certain to keep a spark away from a source of hydrogen is to make the last connection away from any hydrogen source, so the last connection to a ground point away from the battery is always best.
Even the battery that's good there's possibly hydrogen gas above it as the alternator is working to top it off, or if there's a minor draw the alternator isn't keeping up with.

Disclaimer - have I always done it "right" or the safest" HAHAHA -no.

Lest someone wonder what it takes -
I mentioned I use electrolysis for derusting parts - that involves a bucket, water, washing or laundry soda, electrodes, battery and/or charger, wires to connect it all. Water is broken down into hydrogen and oxygen in the process. It bubbles a lot. Not NEARLY the current involved in jumping a vehicle, not even close. I use 18 gauge wires and those are plenty big.
I explained to another engine guy how to set it up.
He had it running just inside the walk-in door of his garage. Then his daughter and grand daughter came for a visit. The little one went running out into the garage, tripped over one of the wires knocking it loose from the electrodes and flash bang boom. No one was hurt but the poor little girl was really shaken. Water everywhere. He let us all know as sort of a warning to be careful.

All I want is for no one to get hurt, everyone be safe, and no JTs burned down.

pretty poor explanation I'm sure. I guess it's easier if you have a background in electric and chemistry.
I think I'll just stop while I'm behind here. No intent on demeaning anyone in this thread.
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Hootbro

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I thought the OEM main battery was a AGM and therefore Hydrogen gas external venting is not really a big problem as the design has the Hydrogen being absorbed back into the glass mat material of the battery?
 

AggieJeep

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I thought the OEM main battery was a AGM and therefore Hydrogen gas external venting is not really a big problem as the design has the Hydrogen being absorbed back into the glass mat material of the battery?
They are designed to not vent much but are vented. Depending upon the nature of the depletion, there is still the possibility of a little explosive gas being present. Best to always be safe.
 

ShadowsPapa

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I thought the OEM main battery was a AGM and therefore Hydrogen gas external venting is not really a big problem as the design has the Hydrogen being absorbed back into the glass mat material of the battery?
Dang, I thought it was fission.
 

Delhux

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Dang, I thought it was fission.
I heard the 2021’s will have a Mr. Fusion© option, though—only if you get the flux capacitor package. Which hasn’t come out yet, but I have been enjoying for some time, so I know I will have been looking forward to it since I will have already picked it up after the first production run which occurred not quite yet, but eventually and I can say it was great.
 

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ShadowsPapa

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I heard the 2021’s will have a Mr. Fusion© option, though—only if you get the flux capacitor package. Which hasn’t come out yet, but I have been enjoying for some time, so I know I will have been looking forward to it since I will have already picked it up after the first production run which occurred not quite yet, but eventually and I can say it was great.
Marty!
 

redrider

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Lead-Acid batteries only outgas when the charge level reaches 80%. During the discharge cycle, the spongy lead absorbs the acid. When the charge cycle is activated, the voltage rises as the acid is remixed with the water. This why it in not advised to add water to any cell until charged to 80%. Adding water too soon will cause the electrolyte to overflow, creating a big mass of corrosion. I have seen far too many forklifts and pallet jacks damaged because of careless maintenance. Industrial Battery and Charger was the company I worked for as a service tech. Even sealed batteries have vents. Electricity flows from negative to positive, BTW.
 

jeepdriva

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I stupidly left truck in drive overnight because I had my doors off and no buzzer and came out to a dead battery n morning. Used a portable battery pack successfully to start but now my ESS stopped shutting off at stops ( which I like :) ) but I also have A yellow ESS lighht on my dash???? I havent checked fuses or the manual yet but wanted to see if anyone had this issue.
 

salvino

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Next time, put a distinguishing mark on the batteries, hidden from their view, and check it after you get it back to see if they REALLY are replacing the batteries or just blowing smoke up your ass, and being lazy POS's that are not doing the work, but then charging FCA for warranty work. LOTS of techs and dealers have been busted doing that over the years.
I hate to say it but that is a distinct possibility. My Grand Cherokee batteries were doing the same thing. Took it in and the dealer replaced both batteries, problem solved. But I have caught another dealer saying they did a 5 tire rotation after marking the spare, which never made it into the rotation.

Poor Internal communication, maybe but I doubt it.
 
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Bob502000

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Under-Pressure

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I have always said, the less people you let mess with your vehicle, the longer it will last. I don't even like letting the dealer change the oil, even when its free.
I agree 100%.
 

Mr._Bill

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I stupidly left truck in drive overnight because I had my doors off and no buzzer and came out to a dead battery n morning. Used a portable battery pack successfully to start but now my ESS stopped shutting off at stops ( which I like :) ) but I also have A yellow ESS lighht on my dash???? I havent checked fuses or the manual yet but wanted to see if anyone had this issue.
This should resolve itself when both batteries get fully charged. The ESS system doesn't operate unless the ESS battery is charged. The primary gets priority when charging.
 

Mike the mechanic

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There are two theories as to how current flows. Conventional Current assumes that current flows out of the positive terminal, through the circuit and into the negative terminal of the source. ... Electron Flow is what actually happens and electrons flow out of the negative terminal, through the circuit and into the positive terminal of the source.
 

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That kind of thing is going to happen when the jumper cables either have a short between the leads or they connected them backwards.
Most likely this!
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