Lessons learned in Moab

[HooliganActual]

Although I can’t afford it, Icon does make great components.

You know, one thing I didn’t mention is the the Icon stuff can be done in stages. Get into a Stage 1, 2, 3 or whatever you can afford at the time and then you can just upgrade components as you go. The other big Jeep suspension vendors are a little like Henry Ford and his paint choices. You can have their SD lift or their HD lift if they even offer that option. And if you want any other components that aren’t part of their kit, you then wind up with a Frankenlift with different brand components.

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[Camaroboi13]

You know, one thing I didn’t mention is the the Icon stuff can be done in stages. Get into a Stage 1, 2, 3 or whatever you can afford at the time and then you can just upgrade components as you go. The other big Jeep suspension vendors are a little like Henry Ford and his paint choices. You can have their SD lift or their HD lift if they even offer that option. And if you want any other components that aren’t part of their kit, you then wind up with a Frankenlift with different brand components.

Totally agree with the stages part, and that helps. Personally, I have 5 different companies in the suspension on my Gladiator. I researched what I wanted and how to make it work and did it. I would not recommend this to someone who doesn’t do their own labor. If you have brand x kit, it’s easy to make one phone call to brand x about parts, replacement, or problems. I have to figure it out on my own or listen to 5 companies blame each other.

 

[rafael004]

On the driver home last week from Moab I was thinking what upgrades would help on the next trip. A few things came to mind the last of which I need some advice.

Upgraded compressor hose from single to four. I might also upgrade my MESA to a MOAB with the hyperflex

Considering a front bumper of the stubby type

The most important is a lift. I have just started a quick search and came up with the AEV Galdiator specific 2 inch spacer lift. Not knowing whats best yet I thought I would open it up for some suggestions on options. I am more of the buy once cry once type within reason.

I would like to keep the current shocks and what to maintain good on road handling. No tire upgrade at this point since I have fairly new 35" BFG KO2s.

Thanks in advance.

Check the metal cloak lift for the Mojave I think it’s better for. Offfroad use than the spacer

 

[Sw00per]

FWIW, regarding the 4 hose air system, it's not quite as straight forward as being able to push only so much air down the line. Here's a link to an old post of mine. Take a second to read it. It really comes down to how you have the 4 hoses hooked up. In the post, you'll see that I have one manifold (larger than the hose diameter) that goes to all 4 wheels. Most of the 4 hose systems I've seen just keep teeing off of each other and that does inhibit the overall volumetric flow.

https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/threads/new-jeeper-airup-air-down.71349/post-1167327

I'll also agree with a couple of the previous comments which fall under the "buy once, cry once" concept. I have nothing against spacer lifts but it sounds like your use case (and that you're already planning to do more wheeling) would really indicate you should not throw money at the spacer lift and then have to eat that cost when you eventually go to a full suspension lift. Really consider skipping the intermediate step.

I also know that this wasn't really a "What lift should I get?" thread but let me throw out some food for thought: I agree that it sucks moving to a full suspension and "throwing away" the premium Mojave suspension that you already paid for, but there is a take-off market where you can recoup some of that money. I sold the entire suspension and rock rails from my JTR on this forum for several hundred dollars...all locally.

I have no bias for any particular lift; Clayton, MetalCloak, AEV, etc. In fact I have the AEV DualSport XT on my 2016 JKUR. Here's the curve ball, go find an Icon Vehicle Dynamics dealer and talk to them. We have a shop not far from me here in PHX that builds Trophy Trucks for running Baja races and Icon is what they use to build the suspensions on those trucks. I put a 2.5" Stage 6 Icon lift on my Rubicon and it is the best suspension I have run on a Jeep...ever. That's 40 years of owning Jeeps and I currently own 3. I want to rip the AEV out of my 2016 JKUR andput an Icon in.

I have ripped my big phat 6280# JTR rigged for overlanding down desert roads down here in Phoenix and I would put that suspension up against my AEV DualSport XT any day of the week.

Sorry for the diatribe. I get it when I hear Mojave owners say they don't want to give up their Mojave desert running suspension but then go and buy suspensions that are made for rock crawling. Look at Icon, seriously.

Cheers.

Thanks for the extended info. All great food for thought. I do not have a bias to any maker and will tend more toward quality when considering next steps. I will add ICON to my growing research list.

 

[HooliganActual]

Thanks for the extended info. All great food for thought. I do not have a bias to any maker and will tend more toward quality when considering next steps. I will add ICON to my growing research list.

And while Icon may be more expensive, it looks like the Stage 6 I’m running is only about $500 more than a DualSport XP. Yeah, it’s $500 bucks but it’s worth it. It’s worth noting as well that my local Icon dealer stocks parts. So if I “break” a lower control arm, I can go pick one up. If I damage something on my AEV, getting a replacement part isn’t as straightforward.

 

[b-roc]

Having a Mojave and having slowly increased the difficulty of my wheeling and my lift following that, I have a suggestion and an offer (as well as some observations).

I did Moab (among other locations) with the 2" AEV Spacer lift and ko2 37"s and only really found myself dragging the hitch skid from time to time. If that was all that I was going to do, I probably would have left that part of my build alone. Loved this setup for upper end moderate trails.

This also let my family get used to a lifted jeep.

As soon as my wife said yes to doing the rubicon, then the lift grew. While it is a bit of a Franken-lift, it is very roughly a metalcloak 3.5 lift.

I initially tried using the shock extensions with the metalcloak springs ... if you are running a lighter rig to stay close to where the mojave shocks handle well, then this combo rides horribly (the metal cloak spring rate and mojave shocks don't work well despite keeping a lower weight). My next step was to get tuned sdi eclik shocks and clayton springs. That combo rides beautifully but is expensive.

Other things to throw into the mix. 1) The rubber on the aev swaybar links breaks down pretty fast. 2) many mojave owners running spacer lifts either run front geo correction brackets and/or longer front lower control arms

If you like the way your mojave rides then
1) to go with a full/spring based lift, you either need to be ok with your ride quality decreasing or spending a chunk of change on shocks
2) go with a spacer lift ... your total shock travel would take a hit if you run something other than mojave shocks ... but this would be a non issue since you like the stock shocks

My offer with one requirement
Requirement: if you grow beyond the capabilities of a spacer lift, then you make the same offer to somebody else on the forum
Offer) I will send you the spring spacers and shock extensions from my aev spacer lift for $50 plus UPS's charge for shipping and packing.

Things that I would get if I were you in addition to above
1) carrier bearing spacer for the rear driveshaft
2) adjustable swaybar links front and rear (not aev)
3) at least one of the following- front geometry correction bracket and/or adjustable front lower control arms (the mojave starting with 1" more lift than the rubi pushes most of us in that direction)

I can't remember if the aev kit included longer bolts. I will send these if I find them, but you might have to source these.

Side note - I would just follow the aev instructions for the install and match the lower control arms to the stock control arms first and then extend by the extra length reported for the mopar control arms. Also, the aev instructions will have you remove the spring isolators... keep these in case you go to a larger lift.

Let me know what you think and if you have any questions.

 

[Sw00per]

Having a Mojave and having slowly increased the difficulty of my wheeling and my lift following that, I have a suggestion and an offer (as well as some observations).

I did Moab (among other locations) with the 2" AEV Spacer lift and ko2 37"s and only really found myself dragging the hitch skid from time to time. If that was all that I was going to do, I probably would have left that part of my build alone. Loved this setup for upper end moderate trails.

This also let my family get used to a lifted jeep.

As soon as my wife said yes to doing the rubicon, then the lift grew. While it is a bit of a Franken-lift, it is very roughly a metalcloak 3.5 lift.

I initially tried using the shock extensions with the metalcloak springs ... if you are running a lighter rig to stay close to where the mojave shocks handle well, then this combo rides horribly (the metal cloak spring rate and mojave shocks don't work well despite keeping a lower weight). My next step was to get tuned sdi eclik shocks and clayton springs. That combo rides beautifully but is expensive.

Other things to throw into the mix. 1) The rubber on the aev swaybar links breaks down pretty fast. 2) many mojave owners running spacer lifts either run front geo correction brackets and/or longer front lower control arms

If you like the way your mojave rides then
1) to go with a full/spring based lift, you either need to be ok with your ride quality decreasing or spending a chunk of change on shocks
2) go with a spacer lift ... your total shock travel would take a hit if you run something other than mojave shocks ... but this would be a non issue since you like the stock shocks

My offer with one requirement
Requirement: if you grow beyond the capabilities of a spacer lift, then you make the same offer to somebody else on the forum
Offer) I will send you the spring spacers and shock extensions from my aev spacer lift for $50 plus UPS's charge for shipping and packing.

Things that I would get if I were you in addition to above
1) carrier bearing spacer for the rear driveshaft
2) adjustable swaybar links front and rear (not aev)
3) at least one of the following- front geometry correction bracket and/or adjustable front lower control arms (the mojave starting with 1" more lift than the rubi pushes most of us in that direction)

I can't remember if the aev kit included longer bolts. I will send these if I find them, but you might have to source these.

Side note - I would just follow the aev instructions for the install and match the lower control arms to the stock control arms first and then extend by the extra length reported for the mopar control arms. Also, the aev instructions will have you remove the spring isolators... keep these in case you go to a larger lift.

Let me know what you think and if you have any questions.

Thank you for all the tips and the generous offer. Lots of research to do since I will be out of action in a little over a week with a full shoulder replacement. This will give me time to research. Its ironic you mentioned The Rubicon as this is not far from me and after Moab it is now on the list although not solo.

BTW thanks for the tip on the AEV issue with the rubber on the swaybar links.

 

[b-roc]

Thank you for all the tips and the generous offer. Lots of research to do since I will be out of action in a little over a week with a full shoulder replacement. This will give me time to research. Its ironic you mentioned The Rubicon as this is not far from me and after Moab it is now on the list although not solo.

BTW thanks for the tip on the AEV issue with the rubber on the swaybar links.

For the 3.5 lifts when I was reading my final 3 were clayton, metalcloak, rock krawler.
Articulation and ride quality will come into play too.

If you are doing the rubicon soon'ish, skip my offer. I just did very well on the rubicon with 39"s and a 3.5 lift and an added front locker (I've done a few other things for highway manners but that isn't applicable for this part of the discussion) ... gladiators on 37s and 3.5 did ok ... those with less had a harder time but made it

If you are doing the work , you will want to do it before your surgery (or a while after your surgery) ... the control arm bolts torque specs are no joke!

If you take the offer, all of the items not from me would be reusable on any other lift.

No matter what ... keep having fun!

 

[Josh00333]

Lots of good advice in this thread. First thing is to outline what you want. Don’t squiggle change or alter that outline it then plot what you’re after.

If you’re after flexibility for a Rockcrawler, for example then I would be looking at icon Metalcloak and Clayton.

If you’re after road handling and payload capability, I would be looking at AEV And Claton.

If you’re just after some extra heights and going to Starbucks, then the Mopar 2 inch kit is perfectly fine.

Also look at upgrade ability like icon. They’ve got stages where you can add the individual components and bring it up a stage or two. if you get into Overlanding AEV has two different sets of springs. They also have the above mentioned 8100.

If you decide you want to build your own, then companies like icon, Clayton metal cloak you can buy all individual components and build your own.

I was looking for road handling and payload characteristics so AEV was the fit for me.

 

[Sw00per]

For the 3.5 lifts when I was reading my final 3 were clayton, metalcloak, rock krawler.
Articulation and ride quality will come into play too.

If you are doing the rubicon soon'ish, skip my offer. I just did very well on the rubicon with 39"s and a 3.5 lift and an added front locker (I've done a few other things for highway manners but that isn't applicable for this part of the discussion) ... gladiators on 37s and 3.5 did ok ... those with less had a harder time but made it

If you are doing the work , you will want to do it before your surgery (or a while after your surgery) ... the control arm bolts torque specs are no joke!

If you take the offer, all of the items not from me would be reusable on any other lift.

No matter what ... keep having fun!

Surgery is in a little over a week so I have some time to research. Also added EVO to the research list.

 

[b-roc]

If going/researching a full lift, after getting your general bearings, I would suggest the following if not buying a full kit
1) pick the spring/shock combo based off of articulation, driving characteristics, load characteristics, etc
2) select control arms that provide at least the articulation that your shocks can achieve (you will quickly realize that many control arms provide travel that many shocks will never allow you to use)
3) consider an aluminum tie rod to take hits
4) consider a Synergy drag link so if you ever decide that you want a high steer system then you are already set (can be mounted either way)
5) the rest is a little in the noise ... one small thing that I didn’t consider ... pick front bump stop spacers that are smoother on the contact surface to avoid tearing up the rubber on your hydro jounces

I should clean up my signature but you can scan through it to see where I landed as far as components (can verify that I have optimized my articulation for my given shocks and that it has road manners similar or better than the stock Mojave... I have not tested this, but I would assume that I am slightly worse on high-speed washboard roads now since I don't have a bypass shock ... should be close though) ... better articulation than my setup is definitely achievable using shocks with more travel but it would take serious work to improve the road performance beyond this setup

 

[HooliganActual]

If you get into Overlanding AEV has two different sets of springs.

@Sw00per This brings up a good point and one I forgot to mention. Springs!

It seems that at times we get a little "programmed" into what is being marketed to us. As Jeepers we feel compelled to stick with Jeep parts companies; MetalCloak, AEV, Rockkrawler, etc. and forget that there are companies that specialize in trucks; and at the end of the day, our Gladiators are trucks.

When it comes to springs, you aren't relegated to the springs that are offered by those same companies to go with the lifts they sell. This was where, once again, I was overly pleased with my Icon set up. My Gladiator is set up as an overlander and the springs that Icon sells weren't going to cut it. So the shop that was doing the work said "No problem, we'll just call Deaver Spring and give them the specs of what you want, have them make the right springs, and charge you the difference." Easy peasy. I didn't have to pay for springs that come in a kit and then pay for the right springs. I also didn't have to buy someone's "HD" springs that still might not be rated (too little or too much) for the load I was planning. I calculated my final payload by knowing what my build was intended to be and Deaver made springs that would work in a range across that payload. I think I had to wait an extra week for the springs to be made and it was about a $600 upcharge but it has been perfect.

Heck they are even just right down the road from you, sort of, in Anaheim.
https://deaverspring.com/

More food for thought

 

[HorneyBadger]

If you do the Rubicon with the JT you will not come out undamaged! Take friends with winch capability and spare parts....

 

[JTGuy]

I did a lot of research before I did any mods. Although not as popular, I went with Synergy. My springs are Mopar 2 inch and if I ever change them they will be Synergy. Everything is easy to adjust and very strong . All the others mentioned are also very well built. About the only thing I have left to do is the front CAs as they are still factory and doing well. Synergy has a great suite and the factory will answer the phone. Enjoy the mods.

 

[Sw00per]

Synergy added to the list. I will likely have a shop do the work so I will need to find a reputable shop or in the case of ICON maybe a platinum dealer that I can work with.

The list is growing - thanks for all the advice.

AEV RT/XT
ICON
Clayton
Metalcloak
EVO
Synergy

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