Livernois Motorsports Tune claims 50HP gains (on E85) for V6 JL Wrangler and JT Gladiator

[DanW]

That E85 bit is myth anyway. I
t doesn't damage engines. State vehicles are mandated to run it and those cars go as long as any other engine would. It doesn't wash off oil. For one thing, it shouldn't be so wet in the combustion chamber that it could wash anything if it would.
Too many myths from those haters who haven't used ethanol like I have.
Besides, 4 cycle engines have two times per cycle where the piston is up at the top - TDC, and the rings and piston carry oil up the cylinder wall, and the rings themselves are "Scrapers" and scrap oil off the cylinder walls as the piston goes back down.
The alcohol is also so hot when it gets into that compressed mix it's not liquid - there's no liquid to wash oil off the cylinder walls. I see a lot of people out there claiming it while real life studies show otherwise. Another hate myth.
A study from Finland years ago showed equal wear ethanol fuels vs. straight gas.

We had state cars with 100,000 miles on them and no engine trouble.

Well, I've heard that it DOES cause more long from an actual powertrain engineer with Stellantis who designed the gen 1 of the 3.6 in most Gladiiators. He won't run it in his own flex fuel 3.6. I'd think he's in the know about it. I also know a racing engine builder who will tell you exactly the same thing, and many of his engines run on E85 and some on pure alcohol fuel. He obviously isn't concerned about long term wear, but understands what it does in an engine compared to gasoline.

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[npgeorgeuw]

I REALLY wish these things (the JT 3.6) was optimized for E85. More power, cooler running, cleaner chambers.
93 octane will help as they can bump timing and make other changes to increase power a bit but the real power advantage would be an engine made for E85.
If I could convert mine to E85 for 500 bucks, I'd do it. But I don't know that these 3.6s have the compression to make them really that great with E85.
E85 engines should be made more like diesel engines, not open deck light-weight gas engines.

It's funny that E85 use leads to less carbon and a cleaner fuel system. In my experience, using 0% ethanol in my cars and small engines seems to do a great job of keeping things burning clean. Maybe after a certain percentage the simplicity of E85 chemically helps as it's just CO2 and water when burned? But if you're talking 10-15% ethanol, way more varnish, coating, smoking, etc....

 

[Aonarch]

Well, I've heard that it DOES cause more long from an actual powertrain engineer with Stellantis who designed the gen 1 of the 3.6 in most Gladiiators. He won't run it in his own flex fuel 3.6. I'd think he's in the know about it. I also know a racing engine builder who will tell you exactly the same thing, and many of his engines run on E85 and some on pure alcohol fuel. He obviously isn't concerned about long term wear, but understands what it does in an engine compared to gasoline.

That's a general statement.

What exactly is damaged?

 

[DanW]

That's a general statement.

What exactly is damaged?

Exactly what I said before. It breaks down and strips oil from the cylinder walls. And there IS a film of oil on the cylinder walls, which accelerates wear.

 

[Aonarch]

Great video from my buddy Paul who owns Deutsche Auto Parts, a very respected individual in the German car community.

 

[MudderNuker]

Reviving this from the dead. Emailed Livernois asking for information on their 91 octane tune which is the highest I can get in my area. If the gains are somewhere around 20-25 HP, I might pull the trigger. Right now I can't do gearing since the money is earmarked for a car lift so I figured a little extra power might make up for the increase on tire size 33 to 35s. Anyone on here have any experience with the 91 tune?

 

[WK2JT]

Reviving this from the dead. Emailed Livernois asking for information on their 91 octane tune which is the highest I can get in my area. If the gains are somewhere around 20-25 HP, I might pull the trigger. Right now I can't do gearing since the money is earmarked for a car lift so I figured a little extra power might make up for the increase on tire size 33 to 35s. Anyone on here have any experience with the 91 tune?

Yup, it's nice. Not life changing, but you can definitely tell it has more power. The trans tune helps a lot also. I'm sure it would feel much better if I wasn't at 6k+'. Full disclosure, I do have 5.13's with 37's.

 

[MudderNuker]

Yup, it's nice. Not life changing, but you can definitely tell it has more power. The trans tune helps a lot also. I'm sure it would feel much better if I wasn't at 6k+'. Full disclosure, I do have 5.13's with 37's.

You running the 91 tune? Do you remember what were the gains? I'm probably going to stick with 35s for the time being. My neighbor has a shop that specializes in Jeeps and does gears all the time. I'm thinking 4.88s next year. Just waiting on him to give me a good neighbor discount.

 

[WK2JT]

91 tune as that's the highest octane you can get in CO. You get all the tunes in the programmer and you select the one you want to use. I don't recall the gains, but they did a video with a gray JL and did dyno runs on all the tunes. I think it was in the 25-30hp range for 91. 93/e85 was close to 50 or something.

 

[WILDHOBO]

91 tune as that's the highest octane you can get in CO. You get all the tunes in the programmer and you select the one you want to use. I don't recall the gains, but they did a video with a gray JL and did dyno runs on all the tunes. I think it was in the 25-30hp range for 91. 93/e85 was close to 50 or something.

I’m also in CO, currently living at 8600’. Do you still notice yours running well when you go up higher, like where I am? I’m also on 37’s and 5.13’s.

 

[WK2JT]

I’m also in CO, currently living at 8600’. Do you still notice yours running well when you go up higher, like where I am? I’m also on 37’s and 5.13’s.

Yeah, it definitely feels like combustion is optimized. It does feel down on power up there, well, because it is. Other than the trans tune that optimizing shifting, they flatten out that 4k RPM dip in the stock tune. You can really feel it there. I recently had to set it all back to stock for the cam replacement and it was night and day. You get used to the extra power and better shift points to where you won’t notice them until you have to revert. I feel it was well worth the money. Not life changing HP and torque, but improvements to drivability for sure. I did the same with my eco diesel with a green diesel tune. Both have been great.

 

[WILDHOBO]

Yeah, it definitely feels like combustion is optimized. It does feel down on power up there, well, because it is. Other than the trans tune that optimizing shifting, they flatten out that 4k RPM dip in the stock tune. You can really feel it there. I recently had to set it all back to stock for the cam replacement and it was night and day. You get used to the extra power and better shift points to where you won’t notice them until you have to revert. I feel it was well worth the money. Not life changing HP and torque, but improvements to drivability for sure. I did the same with my eco diesel with a green diesel tune. Both have been great.

Thanks very much. You don’t think the tune contributed to the cam failure, do you?

Do you mind sharing what specifically you bought for your 3.6? I already pump 91 almost exclusively.

 

[WK2JT]

No, the passenger cam is a known “issue”. Occurrences are enough to feel safe that the tune had zero to do with it. I had been using 91 just because of the compression ratio of the 3.6 and the subjective feeling of how the engine performed compared to 87 and definitely 85. Since I was already pumping 91, figured I might as well maximize the premium I’m spending.

The tune is the only powertrain mod I’ve purchased. Completely stock except for the tune. I did purchase a second PCM in case the tuned unit bricked or I needed to put it back to stock for sale or whatnot.

 

[WK2JT]

No, the passenger cam is a known “issue”. Occurrences are enough to feel safe that the tune had zero to do with it. I had been using 91 just because of the compression ratio of the 3.6 and the subjective feeling of how the engine performed compared to 87 and definitely 85. Since I was already pumping 91, figured I might as well maximize the premium I’m spending.

The tune is the only powertrain mod I’ve purchased. Completely stock except for the tune. I did purchase a second PCM in case the tuned unit bricked or I needed to put it back to stock for sale or whatnot.

Made several edits to that last post. Need more coffee today.

 

[WILDHOBO]

no, the passenger cam is a known “issue”. Occurrences are enough to feel safe that the tune had zero to do with it. I had been using 91 just because of the compression ratio of the 3.6 and the subjective feeling of how the engine performed compared to 87 and definitely 85. Since I was already pumping 91, figured I might as well maximize the premium I’m spending.

the tune is the only powertrain mod I’ve purchased. Completely stock except for the tune. I did purchase a second PCM in case the tuned unit bricked or I needed to put it back to stock for sale or whatnot.

As much as I’m sure to get haters and pushback, I’ve had the same experience with 87. I only used it for a short time. It runs noticeably better with 91. I abandoned my high performance coil pack experiment as they kept failing. So I’m still looking for some performance improvements due to altitude. It’s a different vehicle entirely at low altitudes.

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