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Loose steering-dealers response

5JeepsAz

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I'd like to ask the universe to solve this problem. Anyone should be able to go to a dealership and say I would like my steering tighter, looser, more responsive, less responsive. How do I do that? How much does it cost? It's a driver preference issue. Put it this way, if this happened in a self driving car, think it would be resolved? Of course we know how to fix it. That we lie to each other so easily speaks volumes about the corporate citizen. Imagine some board dudes sitting in a board room lying their asses off to themselves that this is acceptable. Do your job. Solve this problem. It's more than a safety issue, it is a customer preference issue. Either way, it's criminal malfeasance on the part of leadership who have sworn duty to do a simple job and instead choose to fail. #reckoning #howharddoyouwantit #responsiblecorporatecitizenshipnow



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ShadowsPapa

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Ah, but those with the LOOSE steering, the crazy play - that in itself isn't preference. That's a problem that even some dealers have agreed is a problem, and RESOLVED with a different box or some other repair/replacement.
If it was preference, then it would all be handled with adjustment of some sort or a simple part swap.
In this case, loose steering - where the steering wheel moves 2" before the truck responds, that's bad in any vehicle.
A person can change certain "preference" things with dampeners, shocks, springs, and so on.
It's more than a customer preference issue - it's a safety issue when there's so much slop the thing literally wanders and it takes so much movement to correct and by then you have over-corrected.
 

HWKIGRL

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What do you suggest?
I’ve been asked to do a. Photoshoot next week, with girls (women) and their Jeeps for a well known 4x4 Off-roading magazine!
I am the ONLY person in a gladiator....I WILL BE Jeep Gladiator’s representation for all to read...Cool right? NOPE!

‘Cause I’m ABOUT TO CANCEL THE PHOTOSHOOT BECAUSE ITS A DRIVE, I’d have to take my Gladiator on the highway for over an hour and then drive up a mountain...and my Gladiator is straight up DANGEROUS on the highway!!
My dealership service also told me “that’s just how it is”.
Please respond, are you telling us all that Jeep makes $54000 vehicles that are NOT SAFE on the highway? Bit expensive for an ATV?!
 

5JeepsAz

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Well, I said 'preference' issue to allow room for the new jeepers crowd who want it to steer like their old car (and who is to say they shouldn't have it their way, if they will pay?), and 'safety' issues for those who like to remain alive (I sure hope this isn't another one of those 'acceptable mortality rate' arguments we used to make before people compelled good corporate citizenship).

Side note: many times I have shaded millennials, wrongly. Here to modify my stance. Thank God for millennials! Met many now who are well versed in the precepts of the good old USA, and who simply won't tolerate the ism cultures predating their lifetimes. Onward and upward America...
 

ShadowsPapa

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Well, I said 'preference' issue to allow room for the new jeepers crowd who want it to steer like their old car (and who is to say they shouldn't have it their way, if they will pay?), and 'safety' issues for those who like to remain alive (I sure hope this isn't another one of those 'acceptable mortality rate' arguments we used to make before people compelled good corporate citizenship).

Side note: many times I have shaded millennials, wrongly. Here to modify my stance. Thank God for millennials! Met many now who are well versed in the precepts of the good old USA, and who simply won't tolerate the ism cultures predating their lifetimes. Onward and upward America...
My son (born in 82, graduated 2000) I was talking to him early on about the covid stuff - and how I'd seen all of the news articles about millennials and their parties, not even social distancing and so on and basically accusing them of being a reason Florida was having issues.
He quickly interrupted and said "Dad, it's my friends and me who are shaming those people you see - we are yelling at them, telling them to go home and leave Florida, go back to NY or whatever, we're being safe".

LOL - it's a more of a truck than a car. I'd never expect one to steer or handle like a car - although amazingly mine does come really close. In fact, I'd almost compare the handing as far as steering to my SX4.
Can't have a truck AND a car all in one package. Something's got to give.
It's funny, though, when I follow the progression of cars and trucks in general over the years as sort of an automotive historian besides an auto tech - one of the reason Jeep had to beef up the 4.0 block and change the timing chain setup and add a "snubber" in the cover was because new Jeep owners were complaining of the noise - it sounded like a truck. Good grief, people, it was first put in Jeep trucks! DUH. Then as more women started buying SUVs - your grocery-getters, soccer moms and such, it got even worse.
It's just too funny the things that had to be done to make an internal COMBUSTION, piston-pumping engine with reciprocating and spinning parts smacking each other whisper quiet - in a JEEP.
 
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HWKIGRL

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My son (born in 82, graduated 2000) I was talking to him early on about the covid stuff - and how I'd seen all of the news articles about millennials and their parties, not even social distancing and so on and basically accusing them of being a reason Florida was having issues.
He quickly interrupted and said "Dad, it's my friends and me who are shaming those people you see - we are yelling at them, telling them to go home and leave Florida, go back to NY or whatever, we're being safe".

LOL - it's a more of a truck than a car. I'd never expect one to steer or handle like a car - although amazingly mine does come really close. In fact, I'd almost compare the handing as far as steering to my SX4.
Can't have a truck AND a car all in one package. Something's got to give.
It's funny, though, when I follow the progression of cars and trucks in general over the years as sort of an automotive historian besides an auto tech - one of the reason Jeep had to beef up the 4.0 block and change the timing change setup and add a "snubber" in the cover was because new Jeep owners were complaining of the noise - it sounded like a truck. Good grief, people, it was first put in Jeep trucks! DUH. Then as more women started buying SUVs - your grocery-getters, soccer moms and such, it got even worse.
It's just too funny the things that had to be done to make an internal COMBUSTION, piston-pumping engine with reciprocating and spinning parts smacking each other whisper quiet - in a JEEP.
I’m really happy your Gladiator drives to your satisfaction and is SAFE, I truly am.

I wish everyone’s did.

Mine does not, and is not. Frankly if you think I’m complaining because I’m a woman, good grief! I’m a Small business owner, baseball, football, LAX mom, I shoot, camp, horseback ride, off-road in my Jeep AND get groceries!

I happen to love the sound of a big throaty engine and I’ve driven trucks most of my life, my 2005 Chevy Silverado Z71 off road package drove like a “truck” but I sure as hell didn’t worry about killing myself or anyone else on the highway every time I got in it.

To liken the safety issue of dangerously loose, sloppy steering and soccer moms not liking the “noise” in SUVs is just plain silly, no actually it’s insulting!

I’m from Iowa maybe things have changed but traffic is non existent unless it’s Hawkeye football home game and you very rarely, well NEVER find yourself on a windy, winding mountain highway a few thousand feet up with all 4 lanes packed and nowhere to go...in town my Gladiator’s a dream, on quiet country roads out by my horse, dream, because I have time and room to correct the faults.
I’d prefer not to be a danger on the road because Jeep did a poor job on the steering box.

My husband had a CJ7, our neighbors have 7 Jeeps (all 2015 or newer) have had Jeeps for decades, I asked some of the Jeepers on my last ride to check it out, they all say my steering SUCKS, (One had an 89 YJ and one a 99 TJ their 20 and 30 year old Jeeps drive better than my 2020 $54000 Jeep!)

Sure, it’s a “Jeep thing” but not something I made up because I don’t have anything swinging between my legs, buy groceries or cheer at my son’s high school games...it’s because Jeep screwed up and hasn’t fixed the steering boxes that have hundreds of complaints.
 

ShadowsPapa

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I’m really happy your Gladiator drives to your satisfaction and is SAFE, I truly am.

I wish everyone’s did.

Mine does not, and is not. Frankly if you think I’m complaining because I’m a woman, good grief! I’m a Small business owner, baseball, football, LAX mom, I shoot, camp, horseback ride, off-road in my Jeep AND get groceries!

I happen to love the sound of a big throaty engine and I’ve driven trucks most of my life, my 2005 Chevy Silverado Z71 off road package drove like a “truck” but I sure as hell didn’t worry about killing myself or anyone else on the highway every time I got in it.

To liken the safety issue of dangerously loose, sloppy steering and soccer moms not liking the “noise” in SUVs is just plain silly, no actually it’s insulting!

I’m from Iowa maybe things have changed but traffic is non existent unless it’s Hawkeye football home game and you very rarely, well NEVER find yourself on a windy, winding mountain highway a few thousand feet up with all 4 lanes packed and nowhere to go...in town my Gladiator’s a dream, on quiet country roads out by my horse, dream, because I have time and room to correct the faults.
I’d prefer not to be a danger on the road because Jeep did a poor job on the steering box.

My husband had a CJ7, our neighbors have 7 Jeeps (all 2015 or newer) have had Jeeps for decades, I asked some of the Jeepers on my last ride to check it out, they all say my steering SUCKS, (One had an 89 YJ and one a 99 TJ their 20 and 30 year old Jeeps drive better than my 2020 $54000 Jeep!)

Sure, it’s a “Jeep thing” but not something I made up because I don’t have anything swinging between my legs, buy groceries or cheer at my son’s high school games...it’s because Jeep screwed up and hasn’t fixed the steering boxes that have hundreds of complaints.
Whoa - wasn't at all referring to you - was posting in response to 5JeepsAZ.
I've chatted with folks who have the 2" slop, likely what you are experiencing.

I didn't even have your steering problems in mind when posting, it was strictly in response to the other pose from 5JeepsAZ.

The "it's a jeep thing" to me is BS. My brother has owned multiple Wranglers and his haven't behaved the way some describe their JTs handling.

I believe you have the issue - I've talked to others who have -some in the private messaging here. I believe it's an issue and have even said many times - anyone in Iowa who has the steering problem, come on over - let's compare and check things out. I still say that.
(my daughter-in-law is about 5'2" and drove trucks in Korea - you ain't seen crazy until you've driven there - the turn lanes in some towns are literally just make a fast u-turn, no left turns at the intersections, too much traffic - 6 lanes both directions in the middle of town. My wife has driven my trucks, and my tractors when I had them)

Wow.

Check out my survey I posted months ago and how I've been advocating FOR people who have the 2" steering slop as well as other stability issues. I've privately helped folks check to see if we could find there the issue was in their specific case - we did nail it down to steering sector in at least one of them - it was amazing the slop - and I don't mean end play you can adjust out of it.

Will they ever compare in steering to a close ratio Camaro? No.
But mine sure feels at least as good if not better than ANY other truck I've ever owned, and better than some cars I've had.

So if there are JTs out there not behaving like that, there's a problem out there. I've said that since day 1.
 

5JeepsAz

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I’m really happy your Gladiator drives to your satisfaction and is SAFE, I truly am.

I wish everyone’s did.

Mine does not, and is not. Frankly if you think I’m complaining because I’m a woman, good grief! I’m a Small business owner, baseball, football, LAX mom, I shoot, camp, horseback ride, off-road in my Jeep AND get groceries!

I happen to love the sound of a big throaty engine and I’ve driven trucks most of my life, my 2005 Chevy Silverado Z71 off road package drove like a “truck” but I sure as hell didn’t worry about killing myself or anyone else on the highway every time I got in it.

To liken the safety issue of dangerously loose, sloppy steering and soccer moms not liking the “noise” in SUVs is just plain silly, no actually it’s insulting!

I’m from Iowa maybe things have changed but traffic is non existent unless it’s Hawkeye football home game and you very rarely, well NEVER find yourself on a windy, winding mountain highway a few thousand feet up with all 4 lanes packed and nowhere to go...in town my Gladiator’s a dream, on quiet country roads out by my horse, dream, because I have time and room to correct the faults.
I’d prefer not to be a danger on the road because Jeep did a poor job on the steering box.

My husband had a CJ7, our neighbors have 7 Jeeps (all 2015 or newer) have had Jeeps for decades, I asked some of the Jeepers on my last ride to check it out, they all say my steering SUCKS, (One had an 89 YJ and one a 99 TJ their 20 and 30 year old Jeeps drive better than my 2020 $54000 Jeep!)

Sure, it’s a “Jeep thing” but not something I made up because I don’t have anything swinging between my legs, buy groceries or cheer at my son’s high school games...it’s because Jeep screwed up and hasn’t fixed the steering boxes that have hundreds of complaints.
You have a right to be safe in a Jeep. Period. And you, the consumer, determine if you feel safe. Not some corporate algorithm indicating life is expendable, which it is never, and which weak or no character leaders have hidden behind to validate the myth that an error rate in production is acceptable. It is not. A faulty steering Jeep truck should not make it off the assembly line, ever. We have all read tons of posts on this and other forums. We have seen the change in society about what American people will no longer tolerate. We are the richest and most advanced culture ever to inhabit earth, and excellence in social and industrial outcomes is the only acceptable option from here on out. Think I am dreaming? Watch the news, then read about the French cake lady. People are done with elitists (here meaning corporate leaders who ignore and tolerate any form of inequity in their entity, specifically one truck sold with faulty steering, which they themselves wouldn't let their grandmother drive daily, but which they'll sell to JQ Citizen without qualm, wrongly). And it is past time for corporations to live up to the duty of citizenship if they want the tax break afforded them as corporate citizens. Meaning this. You are 100% correct. Jeep has the duty to correct this steering issue... My thoughts only, not anyone else's. Good luck with your situation.
 

ShadowsPapa

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You have a right to be safe in a Jeep. Period. And you, the consumer, determine if you feel safe. Not some corporate algorithm indicating life is expendable, which it is never, and which weak or no character leaders have hidden behind to validate the myth that an error rate in production is acceptable. It is not. A faulty steering Jeep truck should not make it off the assembly line, ever. We have all read tons of posts on this and other forums. We have seen the change in society about what American people will no longer tolerate. We are the richest and most advanced culture ever to inhabit earth, and excellence in social and industrial outcomes is the only acceptable option from here on out. Think I am dreaming? Watch the news, then read about the French cake lady. People are done with elitists (here meaning corporate leaders who ignore and tolerate any form of inequity in their entity, specifically one truck sold with faulty steering, which they themselves wouldn't let their grandmother drive daily, but which they'll sell to JQ Citizen without qualm, wrongly). And it is past time for corporations to live up to the duty of citizenship if they want the tax break afforded them as corporate citizens. Meaning this. You are 100% correct. Jeep has the duty to correct this steering issue... My thoughts only, not anyone else's. Good luck with your situation.
There WILL be errors in production, but the rate of the errors here is just crazy.
Plus making is worse is the RESPONSE from dealer shops........... it's one thing to have an issue and get it fixed, it's another to have that issue and being told "it's a Jeep thing" and that's pure unadulterated BS.

I can see if among the members of this forum you have 2 or 3 owners with a steering issue (even that's big, really), but the numbers are way beyond that. Just among those who have had other solid axle Jeeps, the number is at least 28, and that 28 is based on a poll that likely not everyone has even seen let alone voted in. 28 with loose steering that is either a risk or bordering on being one.

https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/threads/steering-issue-poll.24943/

IMO, that's a pretty high number. It's a worse number when you consider dealer responses.
Yes, it's a truck, yes it's solid axle, but we're beyond the days of things flexing, poor engineering, issues not yet resolved - modern solid axle vehicles should be stable even at higher speeds.
Mine is rock solid, easy to control, even at 85 (that's ALL I will admit to online)
 

HWKIGRL

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I’m really happy your Gladiator drives to your satisfaction and is SAFE, I truly am.

I wish everyone’s did.

Mine does not, and is not. Frankly if you think I’m complaining because I’m a woman, good grief! I’m a Small business owner, baseball, football, LAX mom, I shoot, camp, horseback ride, off-road in my Jeep AND get groceries!

I happen to love the sound of a big throaty engine and I’ve driven trucks most of my life, my 2005 Chevy Silverado Z71 off road package drove like a “truck” but I sure as hell didn’t worry about killing myself or anyone else on the highway every time I got in it.

To liken the safety issue of dangerously loose, sloppy steering and soccer moms not liking the “noise” in SUVs is just plain silly, no actually it’s insulting!

I’m from Iowa maybe things have changed but traffic is non existent unless it’s Hawkeye football home game and you very rarely, well NEVER find yourself on a windy, winding mountain highway a few thousand feet up with all 4 lanes packed and nowhere to go...in town my Gladiator’s a dream, on quiet country roads out by my horse, dream, because I have time and room to correct the faults.
I’d prefer not to be a danger on the road because Jeep did a poor job on the steering box.

My husband had a CJ7, our neighbors have 7 Jeeps (all 2015 or newer) have had Jeeps for decades, I asked some of the Jeepers on my last ride to check it out, they all say my steering SUCKS, (One had an 89 YJ and one a 99 TJ their 20 and 40 year old Jeeps drive better than my 2020 $54000 Jeep!)

Sure, it’s a “Jeep thing” but not something I made up because I don’t have anything swinging between my legs, buy groceries or cheer at my son’s high school games...it’s because Jeep screwed up and hasn’t fixed the steering boxes that have hundreds of complaints.
Whoa - wasn't at all referring to you - was posting in response to 5JeepsAZ.
I've chatted with folks who have the 2" slop, likely what you are experiencing.

I didn't even have your steering problems in mind when posting, it was strictly in response to the other pose from 5JeepsAZ.

The "it's a jeep thing" to me is BS. My brother has owned multiple Wranglers and his haven't behaved the way some describe their JTs handling.

I believe you have the issue - I've talked to others who have -some in the private messaging here. I believe it's an issue and have even said many times - anyone in Iowa who has the steering problem, come on over - let's compare and check things out. I still say that.
(my daughter-in-law is about 5'2" and drove trucks in Korea - you ain't seen crazy until you've driven there - the turn lanes in some towns are literally just make a fast u-turn, no left turns at the intersections, too much traffic - 6 lanes both directions in the middle of town. My wife has driven my trucks, and my tractors when I had them)

Wow.

Check out my survey I posted months ago and how I've been advocating FOR people who have the 2" steering slop as well as other stability issues. I've privately helped folks check to see if we could find there the issue was in their specific case - we did nail it down to steering sector in at least one of them - it was amazing the slop - and I don't mean end play you can adjust out of it.

Will they ever compare in steering to a close ratio Camaro? No.
But mine sure feels at least as good if not better than ANY other truck I've ever owned, and better than some cars I've had.

So if there are JTs out there not behaving like that, there's a problem out there. I've said that since day 1.
Thank you I appreciate the clarification, I’m willing to admit I’m a bit defensive about the JT situation cause as much as I love it, I’m hating it! Damn technology lol...the timing of posts, because I’ve always thought you were a champion of our cause, looks like I jumped the gun and you still are so please accept my apology.

Believe me if I still lived in Iowa or if I was brave enough to drive the darn thing home for a visit I’d take you up on the steering comparison, we could video it and send it to Jeep!!
 

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You have a right to be safe in a Jeep. Period. And you, the consumer, determine if you feel safe. Not some corporate algorithm indicating life is expendable, which it is never, and which weak or no character leaders have hidden behind to validate the myth that an error rate in production is acceptable. It is not. A faulty steering Jeep truck should not make it off the assembly line, ever. We have all read tons of posts on this and other forums. We have seen the change in society about what American people will no longer tolerate. We are the richest and most advanced culture ever to inhabit earth, and excellence in social and industrial outcomes is the only acceptable option from here on out. Think I am dreaming? Watch the news, then read about the French cake lady. People are done with elitists (here meaning corporate leaders who ignore and tolerate any form of inequity in their entity, specifically one truck sold with faulty steering, which they themselves wouldn't let their grandmother drive daily, but which they'll sell to JQ Citizen without qualm, wrongly). And it is past time for corporations to live up to the duty of citizenship if they want the tax break afforded them as corporate citizens. Meaning this. You are 100% correct. Jeep has the duty to correct this steering issue... My thoughts only, not anyone else's. Good luck with your situation.
Thank you, I appreciate that!
 

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bottom line: there are milliions of newer trucks on the highway.. none should feel unsafe to drive
 

ShadowsPapa

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Thank you I appreciate the clarification, I’m willing to admit I’m a bit defensive about the JT situation cause as much as I love it, I’m hating it! Damn technology lol...the timing of posts, because I’ve always thought you were a champion of our cause, looks like I jumped the gun and you still are so please accept my apology.

Believe me if I still lived in Iowa or if I was brave enough to drive the darn thing home for a visit I’d take you up on the steering comparison, we could video it and send it to Jeep!!
I don't always follow in an easy to follow way....... it's a problem I inherited from my mother (brilliant woman, but her ADHD caused some problems). I jump around. Middle, last, first, ready, fire, aim.

I do truly believe there's a problem.
I also know a truck can't possibly handle as well as a sports car, you won't do autocross with these things, heck, my Ford and Chevy were both worse as I'd tried some really hairy stuff with those and nearly went off the embankment. But I don't think anyone is expecting sports car handling. It's obvious and has been that you know trucks and aren't expecting Corvette performance.

We get this - even from JEEP people - "Oh, but it's not independent front suspension (IFS)! It won't handle well!"
So what? It's 2020. Engineering, experience, technology - it's not 1930. IFS has limits these things don't. These will never give a silky smooth ride of a Mercedes but there's zero reason they can't go straight down the highway with tight steering.
IFS is more about ride than steering but they do have inherent advantages.
These will have steering issues on rough and bumpy roads where IFS won't but we aren't talking about driving on boulders here.
IFS tie rods pivot at roughly the same points the lower control arms do so a bump won't impact steering. ( a semester in college studying suspension and steering design didn't hurt me any and doing alignments and brakes for college money just drove it home)

I still wonder if part of the trick here isn't that there's multiple things going on in SOME cases.
LOOSE steering is a problem by itself, wander is another. Maybe some customers are calling one thing something else - just a wondering......

I have watched videos where the driver had to move the steering wheel back and forth a strong 2" to maintain control - mine? Meh, very little, and then it's a smooth action, not jerking back and forth. If I tried to shake the wheel back and forth 2" while driving I'd knock a passenger out the door. When I let go of the wheel at about 45-50 on a rural highway, if the road crown changes and the Jeep starts to go off from straight, a simple 2 finger move of the wheel just a little bit puts it back on straight. That's how it should be.

I had one other thought, it's not a mature thought, really haven't dug into it but on the surface it makes sense - I noticed mine did even better after I re-centered the steering wheel after the spring swap............... so if I did another poll about steering, I'd add the question - is your steering wheel perfectly centered when the truck IS going straight down a flat (not crowned) highway?
Almost every road around here is crowned so it's not easy to test things. We have to align to compensate for road crown in Iowa (likely you knew that LOL)

That there's a loose steering problem at all is an issue, that the dealers are brushing it off as "A Jeep thing" is a response that raises my hackles. Especially when SOME dealers have actually resolved the issue by replacing the steering sector.
In some cases there may be stack-up of tolerances - other problems, things loose, track bar not torqued, frame flex, whatever, but these guys need to all be brought into a huge room and none of them allowed to leave until they talk to each other - the ones who have FIXED customer jeeps talk to those who refuse to, those who refuse to help explain to those who did why they refuse, whatever.
In the old days we'd follow-up with regional reps - don't know if there is such a thing today. I saw a service manager working parts at a Chevy dealer a month after I brought regional reps in on a case I had in the 80s.
 

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