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Loose Steering?

Oscar Indy

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PDI form for those who are saying the dealer should have done more at vehicle check in.
Easiest way to see if it was actually done.... If your tires are overinflated it wasn't done. The factory ships them with more air to prevent flat spots.
Ask for this sheet before you sign anything. If they can't produce it while you are watching they didn't do it.
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ShadowsPapa

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I do have a better than average understanding of mechanics, my question was directed to how much toe in degree was the 1/8” you suggested and I understand the longer the 2 angles the closer an intersecting point will get resulting in more actual toe.

So you are both right, the actual degree stays the same but with the larger tires it makes it more toe with the same degree. I get what you are both saying.

Also after watching the alignment guy adjust the toe it doesn’t look so simple to do in the garage
Was trained in alignment, did many dozens working my way through college - they publish only "inch" specs for passenger cars and vehicles with smaller tires or where tire size won't be an issue or enter into it.
Angle never changes regardless of tire/wheel size - so vehicles with larger wheels/tires or where things can vary - and with modern equipment (modern meaning newer than the Bear and other equipment of the 70s and 80s) it's easier for the computer to measure angles in degrees.
The exact same angle with a much larger tire will result not in more toe in degrees, but in a greater inch
With larger tires you have more footprint on the road - more fore and aft so toe has more impact than a tire with a much smaller footprint on the road where the fore to aft measurement of the footprint in likely half of what some of these tires put down. So these will be more sensitive to toe, toe out on turns and certain other angles and measurements.
If all the tech does or can do is read a computer screen and set according to what he's told - well....... I wouldn't want to use that guy to do my alignments (I used to do mine but I no longer have the equipment available to me since I moved and set up my own shop again).
 

ShadowsPapa

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PicsArt_10-27-09.33.30.jpg


PDI form for those who are saying the dealer should have done more at vehicle check in.
Easiest way to see if it was actually done.... If your tires are overinflated it wasn't done. The factory ships them with more air to prevent flat spots.
Ask for this sheet before you sign anything. If they can't produce it while you are watching they didn't do it.
That's about what they were supposedly doing yeeaarrs ago - so not much has changed - they are supposed to ROAD TEST it and that doesn't mean a trip around the block but for most, I bet that's the extent of it. Some dealers have to deal with 15 minutes of busy downtown traffic just to get to a place where they can go over 25 mph. We have a couple dealers like that - land-locked in busy city traffic. So they don't drive vehicles. You can bet many just put the check marks in there, sign it and pass it along. They do that when you go in for basic service these days - I've received those sheets where you go in for oil, filter, etc. and you look down the sheet where they are supposed to check the vehicle over - and they have things checked your vehicle doesn't even HAVE! They simply check the boxes. As a former tech, still restoring cars today, I know when someone is BS'ing and they often are on things like this.
 

Oscar Indy

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That's about what they were supposedly doing yeeaarrs ago - so not much has changed - they are supposed to ROAD TEST it and that doesn't mean a trip around the block but for most, I bet that's the extent of it. Some dealers have to deal with 15 minutes of busy downtown traffic just to get to a place where they can go over 25 mph. We have a couple dealers like that - land-locked in busy city traffic. So they don't drive vehicles. You can bet many just put the check marks in there, sign it and pass it along. They do that when you go in for basic service these days - I've received those sheets where you go in for oil, filter, etc. and you look down the sheet where they are supposed to check the vehicle over - and they have things checked your vehicle doesn't even HAVE! They simply check the boxes. As a former tech, still restoring cars today, I know when someone is BS'ing and they often are on things like this.
Yep. Time is money and the dealer will cut corners to make more money. If the tire pressure is wrong they will redo the whole thing while I watch.
 

Lumberjack500

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I know I shouldn’t have to but I put on the Fox 2.0. It made a world of difference. I have stock rubi tires with the mopar 2 inch lift. I was going to buy the adjustable Fox but I wanted to try the cheaper one first. One thing I did notice was how easy it was to flex the stock stabilizer. I wish I had a way to test and compare the pressure needed for the Fox vs Stock.
 

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JOKER8R

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Was trained in alignment, did many dozens working my way through college - they publish only "inch" specs for passenger cars and vehicles with smaller tires or where tire size won't be an issue or enter into it.
Angle never changes regardless of tire/wheel size - so vehicles with larger wheels/tires or where things can vary - and with modern equipment (modern meaning newer than the Bear and other equipment of the 70s and 80s) it's easier for the computer to measure angles in degrees.
The exact same angle with a much larger tire will result not in more toe in degrees, but in a greater inch
With larger tires you have more footprint on the road - more fore and aft so toe has more impact than a tire with a much smaller footprint on the road where the fore to aft measurement of the footprint in likely half of what some of these tires put down. So these will be more sensitive to toe, toe out on turns and certain other angles and measurements.
If all the tech does or can do is read a computer screen and set according to what he's told - well....... I wouldn't want to use that guy to do my alignments (I used to do mine but I no longer have the equipment available to me since I moved and set up my own shop again).
I’ll have to read this a couple times to grasp everything and possibly shoot back a question or two
 

jrf

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Nice video not only showing the problem...but showing that it's not "Just a Jeep thing"



If you watch at about 1:15 forward you can see same stretch of road, You can CLEARLY see how much correction is needed in one vs the other.
 

Punkin Luvin

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So I've had issues with the steering on mine, all over the place and including bump steer/dw. I put the daystar spacer lift on yesterday with the replacement extended lower arms and got everything torqued. It drives so much different, feels like it should on the road. I'm running 35s at 33lbs, it is completely tolerable now.
 

Wizzard005

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So I've had issues with the steering on mine, all over the place and including bump steer/dw. I put the daystar spacer lift on yesterday with the replacement extended lower arms and got everything torqued. It drives so much different, feels like it should on the road. I'm running 35s at 33lbs, it is completely tolerable now.
That just masks the problem, the fix is to replace the defective parts.. I just got off of the phone with

DOT and they said people need to stop complaining here on forums and call them, they only have x amount open cases with the problem, people need to step up to much a difference...

United States Department of Transportation : 1-888-327-4236. x1 x2

Phone call takes 10mins
 

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Punkin Luvin

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The only mask factor in the changes is the tire pressure. All others effect suspension and steering geometry. Leads me to believe that there is a caster issue from factory in some. I'll air back up and test. Aired down before lift still had issues.
 

jrf

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JOKER8R

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@Oscar Indy & @JP1 per our previous discussion I finally took time to manually measure my toe. With my 35’s and factory recommended toe setting of 20° (21° actually was the closest he could get mine) total toe I had done a few weeks ago, I am sitting at 1/8” toe-in which is what the majority seem to suggest/recommend. I’m not implying either of you were right or wrong I’m just sharing my measurements. I measured as close to center (hub) as possible and measured from the front and rear of the tire. Hope this helps other members
 

BlackDog

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Been following this post and another one, didn’t wanna say much until I had a chance to really get a feel as to what mine was doing. I had a 9 hour drive home with mine after purchase (bone stock JTR) and I honestly wasn’t sure I was gonna make it, it was windy and the trucks were blowing me all over the road but as night came the wind and trucks died down and it was almost a dream to drive, still the occasional wander but wasn’t bad, hey it’s a box right? Next morning I aired the tires down from 40 something to 36 or 38 and it was much better but still wandered. Soon after I installed new wheels and 35” Ridge Grapplers, played with air pressure and got a little better. What I honestly felt was in ideal weather conditions it handled just fine, tracked straight as an arrow no wander, get it in windy conditions or semi trucks and it was very frustrating. After reading on this post and the other post and various FB ones I decided to have the alignment checked. See attachment below of the before and after, I also had them check the torque settings, some were correct and a few took a half turn to torque. So the ride home from the alignment shop was ideal, steering took less input and was notably tighter and it didn’t wander, any steering input was instant. Did several miles highway around semi trucks and it was a completely different experience. I am 100% satisfied with what was done that I could just leave it alone and drive it how it is however I am curious as to what air pressure will do so I will experiment with that, I also wanna see what a steering stabilizer will effect so I may try one as well but in no way do I feel I need one. I also wanna add that I used the alignment specs given on here and requested the total 20° toe, didn’t want to just get it close. Hope this helps.

7185417D-7C66-47DA-B3F2-8177B1228E92.jpeg


B3A035E9-E233-473F-86C8-FE1162E13F4E.jpeg
Definitely helps here, sounds exactly like what I'm experiencing with the off-center steering wheel and drifting (not the good kind of drifting :)). Trying to line up an alignment and re-torque and see if that takes care of it.
 

RickyR

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Taking mine to a shop next week, will try to get the before and after specs. For $65, I'm not going to wait for FCA.
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