Loose Steering?

[Renegade]

Different causes for similar symptoms. For about 3 years our agency had complaints about their email. They all seemed similar, so for those years the "experts" in central IT and other places struggled to find a common cause. They could not.
The boss's head was on the chopping block. He got a new boss who was hearing from the agency director who had heard from the most vocal employees.... I'd been telling my boss for several months I thought I could resolve the "email issues". Finally, during another chat about things I told him to give me a chance but we had to do certain things.
We created a detailed poll, a spreadsheet which my boss kept - and he sent messages to all users asking them to answer some simple questions. He got the director to direct everyone to respond.
I found patterns - and differences. I had all email issues resolved inside of a month - but I had to take control of the situation and the information had to be organized.

That issue - as well as the steering, can sometimes be complicated by perception - the user may see a problem and not perfectly explain it - it's not right, it's broken, it's not working. You have to narrow it down, was it specific offices or locations? What apps were the using at that time - and much more.
Here we may have seen similar - some had loose steering but no wander - the caster was fine, toe was fine....... others may have had wander and correcting that appeared as if there was loose steering. We don't know the specifics - models, when bought, equipment, tires - have they been modified vs. unmodified. (never lump the two together).

Forums are not good places for resolution unless you can control the thread and keep out the "me, too, but mine acts like this instead" because you muddy things up.
We have similar with HVAC - are there issues? Could well be - but some is absolutely perception, too. And the issues aren't all identical, so you get 10 threads about a topic that appears the same, but isn't quite.
Pretty soon it's pure chaos.

Offer still open to people around central Iowa with "steering issues" - bring it by, drive mine, I'll drive yours, we'll check the basics, what I know and narrow things down at least. May not "fix it" right there but have a better understanding of what it is not, making it easier to find what it IS.

Except that you’re the only Gladiator owner in central Iowa...

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[ShadowsPapa]

Except that you’re the only Gladiator owner in central Iowa...

Oh, yeah....... well........

There's at least three others. Another blue 30 minutes south, a red and a white somewhere east of DSM.

 

[Keller]

I made an appointment to take mine next Thursday. Have 450 miles on the Odometer.

Have 2 inches of play in center.

It’s not to annoying until I get cross winds or uneven road beds then it’s constant adjustments due to lack of being able to input proper corrections. It’s correct one way, then the other, then the other. I’m in the camp that believes this is a tolerance issue in the steering box.

 

[spazzyfry123]

My dudes... The steering box being replaced has fixed my issue. If I were to put a value against it, I’d say it is 80% better. I am thrilled. I am no longer a pinball bouncing in the lane. It tracks true and needs very minimal input from me to keep straight. Hit some good gusts at 70 and barely needed to do a thing. For the first time since I’ve owned the vehicle, I feel confident at speed. Not saying this is the same steering I had in my M3, but for a solid axle, big flipping off road truck, this will do.

Dealer says there was zero difference in labeling, revision, style, etc between the two boxes. Same part number and all. They also indicated that they have seen a few and can best describe the steering quality as luck of the draw. Despite the part numbers being the same, it would appear some of us have gotten steering boxes assembled at 4:30 on Friday. Not convinced it’s a batch issue.

Before with original steering box:

After with replaced steering box:

Keep in mind this is to show play. While driving down the road with the first steering box, constant input was necessary. With this new box, I can rest my hand on the wheel and it will drive straight with no real input at all from me. Much much calmer drive.

So here we are about 20 days after my steering box has been replaced and I am back into sad camp. I’m not even sure how, but I’d closer compare my steering to be like my first video above now. The lash in the box has somehow become more loose within the last three weeks like it was being “broken in.” It’s been gradual, but I’m back to fighting the wheel on uneven roads and bouncing in the lane. No undue stress or action from me; strictly, normal street driving. Guess I gotta open this one back up...

 

[futzin']

Now THAT sucks . . .

 

[jrf]

The lash in the box has somehow become more loose within the last three weeks like it was being “broken in.”

Now that's interesting!!! Thank you for that feedback.

So new box, dealer says "luck of the draw" and now one that loosened up fairly quickly. Wonder what all of those "good" boxes will be like in a few years...or maybe not. This is sounding more like a "engineering" issue than a assembly issue.

Remember what Ford went/is going through with that stupid transmission. Here if you don't know what I'm talking about.
And let me quote from that article: "Ford knew of the PowerShift transmission's inherent problems before production started but went ahead with it, telling dealers "to tell customers that the cars operated normally" when it knew they were problematic."

Ford internally fought over a KNOWN bad design but still let it go out...what's that tell you? Sound familiar?

 

[Scrubb84]

So here we are about 20 days after my steering box has been replaced and I am back into sad camp. I’m not even sure how, but I’d closer compare my steering to be like my first video above now. The lash in the box has somehow become more loose within the last three weeks like it was being “broken in.” It’s been gradual, but I’m back to fighting the wheel on uneven roads and bouncing in the lane. No undue stress or action from me; strictly, normal street driving. Guess I gotta open this one back up...

Dam. Did you ever check/re-check your track bar bolts that others had issues with? Im only asking cuz maybe your new box is now exaggerating another issue. If you can see the same slop as before by turning the input shaft by hand like mine, then forget I even asked. I’m just hoping this is your case because trying to get yet another ‘new’ box is not gonna be fun.

 

[techteacher]

Added a point of reference - seems like it will go right further than left.

They replaced the drag link with Mopar 68309364AC Drag Link Outer Socket. https://www.quadratec.com/p/mopar/drag-link-outer-socket-jl-jt-m210-wide-front-axle-68309364AC

Here is the latest video clip.


I'm still feeling a dead space that seems excessive - maybe that dead space was reduced slightly with this fix. They did firm up the steering beyond the dead space which leads me to believe we are chasing multiple problems. Whatever they tightened up the first time firmed up the steering beyond the dead space and the new drag link firmed it up even further.

I'll be back at the dealer next week. Going to push for a new steering box and see what they say.

UPDATE: Went back out to pick up dinner and on a whim switched over to look at tire pressure and holy overinflated tires Batman! Dealer blasted them up to 39-40 all the way around (running 35" KO2s). Reduced them down to 33 and have a bit stickier feeling with the wheel. Will reevaluate tomorrow morning when I can get on a longer stretch of straightaway.

 

[Gatorized]

So here we are about 20 days after my steering box has been replaced and I am back into sad camp. I’m not even sure how, but I’d closer compare my steering to be like my first video above now. The lash in the box has somehow become more loose within the last three weeks like it was being “broken in.” It’s been gradual, but I’m back to fighting the wheel on uneven roads and bouncing in the lane. No undue stress or action from me; strictly, normal street driving. Guess I gotta open this one back up...

If those videos are running at normal speed than I am not seeing any improvement. That is way too much input for running in a straight line. I can wiggle my steering wheel back and forth like that too, but I don’t need to. And if I take my hands off the wheel it will track straight. Will yours?

 

[spazzyfry123]

If those videos are running at normal speed than I am not seeing any improvement. That is way too much input for running in a straight line. I can wiggle my steering wheel back and forth like that too, but I don’t need to. And if I take my hands off the wheel it will track straight. Will yours?

I said it at some point on here, but that isn’t necessarily what is needed to stay in a straight line. They are at normal pace, but the videos were to give light on how much of a dead space there is at center. The videos show how much movement is needed in either direction before the front wheels react.

So my recent post is just saying that the dead area, which was reduced initially after my steering box was replaced, is now similar to before the replacement.

Toss in imperfections in the road, or a swift wind, or a crown... I’m sawing at the wheel. Company car is a FWD Equinox and I feel like I’m in a GT3 Cup Car compared to my JT.

 

[Scrubb84]

I also noticed these two threaded holes are empty. I wouldn't have thought twice about them but they are shiny and clean. Everything else is filthy from running through some mud holes, so these spots are a little suspicious. Not sure what if anything was screwed in here.

That must be where the computer is supposed to go that a few JL guys were saying a re-flash fixed their steering problems. Maybe I’m just not educated enough on the subject, BUT.... how can a steering box sector shaft play be fixed with electronics if the steering box has 2 hyd lines, 1 input shaft, 1 output shaft, & 4 mounting bolts? Nothing electric about the box itself what-so-ever. Riddle me that. Sorry for being random, but it’s been on my mind lately.

 

[Slalom]

That must be where the computer is supposed to go that a few JL guys were saying a re-flash fixed their steering problems. Maybe I’m just not educated enough on the subject, BUT.... how can a steering box sector shaft play be fixed with electronics if the steering box has 2 hyd lines, 1 input shaft, 1 output shaft, & 4 mounting bolts? Nothing electric about the box itself what-so-ever. Riddle me that. Sorry for being random, but it’s been on my mind lately.

I agree completely and I have been thinking the same thing. It is just gears in the steering box and the best way to feel the play is when the jeep is not running and you move the wheel back and forth. You can literally go to a dealer and get them to open up a few vehicles and without them running, some are nice and tight and some have slop in the steering box. I have an appointment on Tuesday next week where a Jeep rep is supposed to be at the dealership to look at it.

 

[Hoss63]

That must be where the computer is supposed to go that a few JL guys were saying a re-flash fixed their steering problems. Maybe I’m just not educated enough on the subject, BUT.... how can a steering box sector shaft play be fixed with electronics if the steering box has 2 hyd lines, 1 input shaft, 1 output shaft, & 4 mounting bolts? Nothing electric about the box itself what-so-ever. Riddle me that. Sorry for being random, but it’s been on my mind lately.

The pump is electric and they reflash it with programs for how it pumps. Different pressures can be programmed in.

 

[Scrubb84]

The pump is electric and they reflash it with programs for how it pumps. Different pressures can be programmed in.

Had a feeling someone would say that. Kinda makes sense. Where my brain is getting stuck is it should either have pressure or not. Not just exactly enough to make it work. Does it get better gas mileage with lower pressure? Lol

 

[Slalom]

Had a feeling someone would say that. Kinda makes sense. Where my brain is getting stuck is it should either have pressure or not. Not just exactly enough to make it work. Does it get better gas mileage with lower pressure? Lol

I can see where the flash update could maybe help some aspects of the steering like maybe making the vehicle easier to turn. At least in my case it is pretty obvious that the gears in the S.B are not meshed together tight enough and unless I am crazy no flash will fix that.

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