Manual Sucks

[hjdca]

Note: with Larger tires, 4:88 or 5:13 rear gears make a big difference in "take off" from dead stop. Very little RPM is required to get moving. Saves the clutch and driving it is much easier. I have approx 54K miles on my JTR with 5:13 gears and 37s and the stock Clutch is fine. I have also done a lot of rock crawling in granny gear. 5th and 6th gear are also very usable. 5:13 gears really upgrade the personality of the clutch.

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[redriderjf87]

Trade it in and get a Max Tow. Tows great and tows 7650lbs, that's the best solution I can offer. Get a automatic as well. It's 2023, I'm surprised they still offer manual transmissions on trucks And SUVs.

The problem is then you're more dependent on more electric, electronic and software components / failure modes. Which requires going to the dealer if there's an issue.

If that's not a big deal to someone, then I'd agree with your point.

 

[Jeeperjamie]

The problem is then you're more dependent on more electric, electronic and software components / failure modes. Which requires going to the dealer if there's an issue.

If that's not a big deal to someone, then I'd agree with your point.

It's just reality, eventually everything is gonna be either electric or automatic. None of our 18 wheelers we have in our fleet is manual, 27 trucks all automatics. We rarely have issues out of them and they have been less maintenance than the manual were.

 

[ecidiego]

This thread made me think of this, 1 minute in:

 

[TheRealGinjaNinja]

I had the manual transmission on my JLUR...I am a hardcore manual guy and was really disappointed. As previously posted, it is basically a four speed with horrible ratios then two overdrives that the torqueless motor cant pull. Everything was exacerbated even further after 35s without regearing.

I went with the 8 speed on my gladiator and it is much better for this platform.

Cheers

 

[redriderjf87]

It's just reality, eventually everything is gonna be either electric or automatic. None of our 18 wheelers we have in our fleet is manual, 27 trucks all automatics. We rarely have issues out of them and they have been less maintenance than the manual were.

But the reality is that you're now more dependent on software and silicon, instead of just a gearbox and hydraulics. That's fine if you're ok with it, I don't see how that results in less maintenance / failure modes, which is what I'm trying to reduce.

 

[Jeeperjamie]

But the reality is that you're now more dependent on software and silicon, instead of just a gearbox and hydraulics. That's fine if you're ok with it, I don't see how that results in less maintenance / failure modes, which is what I'm trying to reduce.

Not sure why the maintenance is less but I'm particularly talking about having transmission failures compared to Manual transmissions needing mechanic work done. The cost is surprisingly less on a automatic 18 wheeler compared to a Manual one, to the tune of $91,000 in savings for 27 rigs in the first year alone when we finally got all automatics. I'm no mechanic so I can't say why, but we got about 30 DCs nationwide that are all autos now and the average maintenance cost savings company wide was $73,000 at each DC. Some smaller DCs, some bigger.

 

[Rahkmalla]

it is basically a four speed with horrible ratios then two overdrives

If show can show me a 5speed with no overdrive in a production car made in the last 50 years, I'll concede your comparison to a 4 speed. Otherwise, direct drive on 4th gear makes it a lot more like a 5 speed than a 4 speed. (A 4 speed would have 3rd as direct drive)

Manual C7s have 3 overdrive gears FYI. Are they also "basically a 4 speed"?

 

[TheRealGinjaNinja]

If show can show me a 5speed with no overdrive in a production car made in the last 50 years, I'll concede your comparison to a 4 speed. Otherwise, direct drive on 4th gear makes it a lot more like a 5 speed than a 4 speed. (A 4 speed would have 3rd as direct drive)

Manual C7s have 3 overdrive gears FYI. Are they also "basically a 4 speed"?

Fair point. I will certainly concede to it being more like a 5 speed ;-) Ultimately the point I am trying to make is given the limited torque and horrible aero, 5th gear is almost as equally worthless as 6th especially after putting 35"+ tires on without regearing. A better design decision would have been to have 1:1 in 5th with closer ratios between 1-5 and 6th as the only overdrive. Even on stock tires 6th gear was only useful on flat ground and often needed to go to 4th instead of 5th on any kind of hill.

C7 comparison however is apples/oranges since they actually have the torque, better ratios, low weight, and aero to pull 3 overdrives no problem. Put a LS motor in my Jeep and I would be a happy camper!

The cummins rams with 6 speed manual for instance had 1:1 in fifth gear and you would think a lower revving diesel would be a good use case for double overdrive. On the flip side the closer ratios 1-5 were probably needed for the limited RPMs of a diesel.

Cheers

 

[bd100]

given the limited torque and horrible aero, 5th gear is almost as equally worthless as 6th especially after putting 35"+ tires on without regearing. A better design decision would have been to have 1:1 in 5th with closer ratios between 1-5 and 6th as the only overdrive.

Don't expect them to gear it for 35s by default. Very few people do that.

But I agree that it'd be nicer with five closer gears and one overdrive. And a steeper reverse as well.

For mine, around 500 miles the engine suddenly behaved better at low RPM. And now at 15,000 miles it again suddenly became even better still. It was like a step-change in low RPM performance. Maybe some engine programming kicks in at those points.

Our WK2 with automatic routinely uses low RPM in overdrive, so I figured the JT eventually would be able to do so as well. Same diff ratios.

 

[hjdca]

I had the manual transmission on my JLUR...I am a hardcore manual guy and was really disappointed. As previously posted, it is basically a four speed with horrible ratios then two overdrives that the torqueless motor cant pull. Everything was exacerbated even further after 35s without regearing.

I went with the 8 speed on my gladiator and it is much better for this platform.

Cheers

People that want manuals are the small, small minority. It is really not a debate between the 8 speed auto and the 6 speed manual. It is just the simple desire to have a manual. I feel like we are lucky that Jeep is still offering it for us. Of course, Jeep will gear the manual for mpg with 33s or 31s ... It is what OEMs do.... 4:10 gearing on the Rubicon helps, but, for me, I assumed I would have to re-gear when I put on 37s, and go low... So, hence, the 5:13 diff gears, and the big smile I have when I drive it.

 

[TheRealGinjaNinja]

People that want manuals are the small, small minority. It is really not a debate between the 8 speed auto and the 6 speed manual. It is just the simple desire to have a manual. I feel like we are lucky that Jeep is still offering it for us. Of course, Jeep will gear the manual for mpg with 33s or 31s ... It is what OEMs do.... 4:10 gearing on the Rubicon helps, but, for me, I assumed I would have to re-gear when I put on 37s, and go low... So, hence, the 5:13 diff gears, and the big smile I have when I drive it.

Yep I get it. I went 5.38s on my Gladiator and 37s it’s amazing! Was just about to regear my JLUR then got a killer deal for the gladiator that I could not pass up. ($4500 over what I paid new for my 3 year old JLUR in trade and still got $2k off my Gladiator)

Cheers

 

[BearFootSam]

The problem is then you're more dependent on more electric, electronic and software components / failure modes. Which requires going to the dealer if there's an issue.

If that's not a big deal to someone, then I'd agree with your point.

There are so many other electronic failure modes aside from the transmission that your choice in that department has little bearing on reliability. Between throttle by wire and the myriad sensors, just look at the aux battery issues, we are beholden to electronics for better and worse.

Counter point - the fluid coupling of the AT reduces drive line and engine stress (less shock loading potential) and eliminates a number of operator error failure modes like missed shifts and clutch abuse, especially off road. Given the JT manual is not well rated while the 8HP50 is widely considered one of the best ATs ever made, on paper there is a clear choice. I love manuals dearly but have found the AT very well suited to the JT and it's purposes, it makes very good use of the eight speeds to balance economy and torque.

Besides fixing some of the design weaknesses, if Jeep put a seven speed in the next generation along the lines of the Bronco, I think the manual would be a much more compelling choice.

 

[redriderjf87]

There are so many other electronic failure modes aside from the transmission that your choice in that department has little bearing on reliability.

Disagree.

Eliminating all electric / electronic / software failure modes from the transmission is significant.

 

[570gladiator]

I have owned several jeeps all with manual transmissions. The latest is the gladiator and that one is disappointing to say the least. I have changed out the clutch and flywheel with a centerforce clutch and high inertia flywheel. That helped with running slow, but it didn't fix the high reverse gear. You still have to feather the clutch to back up a trailer of any weight or drop it into low range. Why did jeep source such a crappy transmission and clutch? Are they trying to get people to not buy manuals? Or do they not care. I love the gladiator otherwise, but when i found out about the reduction in towing because of the manual my love wavered. Does anyone know of transmission swaps for the JT?

Agree. The gearing could be better. I can get by, but reverse is awful. Either I have to put it in low or feather the clutch when backing up with or for the trailer. I am sure the clutch recall has to do with smoking the clutch in reverse.

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