Manual transmission ratings

[Dallas91]

The D478 has gotten positive reviews, but the main problem I see with it is that the ratios in 2nd thru 6th all got "taller" i.e. numerically higher. This is what adds to the sluggish feel that a lot of JL owners have been reporting.

My first two vehicles at 16 and 19 were manual pickups. After that I had a manual Mustang GT. I had two manual Jeep Wranglers, a YJ and a JKU. I currently have a Mach 1 with a manual (which I'm driving to work today actually). So obviously I wholly understand the love for manual transmissions.

But, the fact of the matter is that driving a manual is only "fun" if you're on a highway or uncrowded area. As soon as you hit thick city traffic it sucks. Nobody can with a straight face say that they actually enjoy driving a stick shift in a traffic jam. So, the "fun" aspect only happens half the time.

Then you've got all the other drawbacks: more dangerous offroad, have to set the parking brake every time you step out of it onroad due to increased fear of it popping out of gear, slower, less towing capacity, more maintenance over time, less interior space around the console, less resale value, slightly less fuel efficiency, increased engine wear if you lug it in lower gears often, etc. etc.

The only true positive I can think of is that most people these days can't steal it.

I might have a friend make that into a sticker for me. Love it!!! Best was watching my kids try to roll down the windows in my old cj7.

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[5JeepsAz]

Th

The D478 has gotten positive reviews, but the main problem I see with it is that the ratios in 2nd thru 6th all got "taller" i.e. numerically higher. This is what adds to the sluggish feel that a lot of JL owners have been reporting.

My first two vehicles at 16 and 19 were manual pickups. After that I had a manual Mustang GT. I had two manual Jeep Wranglers, a YJ and a JKU. I currently have a Mach 1 with a manual (which I'm driving to work today actually). So obviously I wholly understand the love for manual transmissions.

But, the fact of the matter is that driving a manual is only "fun" if you're on a highway or uncrowded area. As soon as you hit thick city traffic it sucks. Nobody can with a straight face say that they actually enjoy driving a stick shift in a traffic jam. So, the "fun" aspect only happens half the time.

Then you've got all the other drawbacks: more dangerous offroad, have to set the parking brake every time you step out of it onroad due to increased fear of it popping out of gear, slower, less towing capacity, more maintenance over time, less interior space around the console, less resale value, slightly less fuel efficiency, increased engine wear if you lug it in lower gears often, etc. etc.

The only true positive I can think of is that most people these days can't steal it.

What's this about more dangerous off road? I have thought manual performed better offroading. Guess I can learn... Why more dangerous?

 

[avc8130]

Traffic? I try to avoid that. Honestly, I'm so ingrained with manuals that I don't even notice it in traffic. If more people had manuals, we'd probably have less stop and go traffic!

ac

 

[MotoBrad]

I prefer manual transmission in traffic. Keeps me awake! Autotragic is just so boring. And as for more maintenance over time?!? A clutch is a whole lot cheaper and easier to repair than a slipping transmission. Automatics cost a FORTUNE to replace (and no one repairs them anymore, just Re+Re), manuals are far simpler.

 

[WXman]

Guess I can learn... Why more dangerous?

And as for more maintenance over time?!? A clutch is a whole lot cheaper and easier to repair than a slipping transmission. Automatics cost a FORTUNE to replace (and no one repairs them anymore, just Re+Re), manuals are far simpler.

Because when you're climbing hills, crawling over obstacles, etc. you're constantly trying to modulate that clutch pedal. If you stall out, you can roll downhill quickly without power assisted brakes. If you get it stopped, now you've got to start the engine and take off again without rolling further. It's also very hard on the clutch disc to be modulated a lot while crawling over obstacles. They're just not as safe or as ideal for offroad use.

As far as maintenance, the 850RE auto is a sealed, lifetime transmission with zero maintenance. By contrast, manual transmissions require periodic clutch, slave cylinder, throwout bearing, and fluid replacements and flywheel resurfacing each time you do it. And it's not uncommon to require syncro replacements once you cross 100k miles. The automatic is WAY cheaper to own over time. And if you do need a replacement, they don't "cost a fortune". You should check the pricing on a new D478 manual trans for a JL/JT. More money spent on that than you'd spend replacing the 850RE for sure.

 

[Raven257]

I wish jeep put a g56 (in particular the diesel) in the Gladiator, a truck transmission. Jeep says the Gladiator is all truck but they handicap it with a car clutch (IMO) . Put a truck clutch in it, it's a truck they aren't that hard to push in.

Personally, I think jeep included this manual transmission option in hopes no one would buy it-then drop it (because no one bought it). A 1990 Jeep Commache manual 4.0l could tow 5000 lbs.

FYI Ram no longer offers a manual in 2500 and up (no demand). Also, I've never replaced a clutch in any vehicle or any part on a manual transmission in 37 years of driving a manual (most I've ever driven a manual is 150000+ miles).

 

[Jeepdude413]

The hydraulic throw out bearing went bad on my 2002 TJ at 120k miles. Clutch was still ok but changed it all since i had the transmission out already. Recently traded in JK with 94k and no transmission issues ever and it was wheeled. Point is, mechanical stuff breaks just like any other component. My JT is auto and honestly, its probably the best option it has. Other than having to retrain my brain to drive it, it is much more enjoyable and time will tell as to its reliability in off road situations but I am confident it will hold up.

 

[5JeepsAz]

Because when you're climbing hills, crawling over obstacles, etc. you're constantly trying to modulate that clutch pedal. If you stall out, you can roll downhill quickly without power assisted brakes. If you get it stopped, now you've got to start the engine and take off again without rolling further. It's also very hard on the clutch disc to be modulated a lot while crawling over obstacles. They're just not as safe or as ideal for offroad use.

As far as maintenance, the 850RE auto is a sealed, lifetime transmission with zero maintenance. By contrast, manual transmissions require periodic clutch, slave cylinder, throwout bearing, and fluid replacements and flywheel resurfacing each time you do it. And it's not uncommon to require syncro replacements once you cross 100k miles. The automatic is WAY cheaper to own over time. And if you do need a replacement, they don't "cost a fortune". You should check the pricing on a new D478 manual trans for a JL/JT. More money spent on that than you'd spend replacing the 850RE for sure.

Okay. Not my understanding though. No offense meant.

Here's my take: safety is control.

We've got an emergency brake for the downhill control.
We've got the clutch for disengaging tires (no spin).

Harder? Sure.
Better driving fun? You bet.

Automatic slips like all hell under most conditions, break modulation is like stopping butter from melting, it's still slick.

Power steering is nice but you don't need it.

 

[MPV]

I had posted this elsewhere, but thought the MT club would find this interesting. Jeep Brand Manager explains (at 10min30sec) that "You can tow up to 6,000lb” with manual trans....

 

[LongTimeListener]

Because when you're climbing hills, crawling over obstacles, etc. you're constantly trying to modulate that clutch pedal. If you stall out, you can roll downhill quickly without power assisted brakes. If you get it stopped, now you've got to start the engine and take off again without rolling further. It's also very hard on the clutch disc to be modulated a lot while crawling over obstacles. They're just not as safe or as ideal for offroad use.

I see you've owned plenty of Jeeps and I respect your opinion, but your case against the manual seems a bit overstated. I've got 10 years of overlanding experience, all with a manual. A buddy of mine has taken his manual JK 260,000 miles, much of it on overlanding trips (he's retired). I'm very familiar with how manuals perform off-road. With the crawl ratio on the Rubicon, a manual is very easy over obstacles. Indeed, first gear in 4-Lo is often too low for all but the most technical of situations.

If you're "constantly trying to modulate the clutch pedal" then you're either doing it wrong, or you're involved in some pretty serious rock crawling, not the kind of obstacles that come up even on demanding overlanding trips. And if you're doing serious rock crawling, you shouldn't have bought a Gladiator.

Now, you're right that an automatic has some marginal benefits and that a purely rational analysis would suggest it's a marginally better choice. But driving a stick is a way of life for many of us, and it's perfectly easy to overland with one.

 

[augustwest]

Sounds like WXman isnt good with the stick. Love manual trans, cant wait to get back into one. Been over a decade since in stick shift. The wife is not thrilled about it cuz she has no clue how to drive it, hahaha

 

[Slapping_Rabbits]

Sounds like WXman isnt good with the stick. Love manual trans, cant wait to get back into one. Been over a decade since in stick shift. The wife is not thrilled about it cuz she has no clue how to drive it, hahaha

Yeah mine wasn't thrilled either but my friend's wife said she wants to learn and all of a sudden "it's no big deal and I'll pick it up quick"

 

[Godfadr]

Last Dyno run at Powerteq....(Automatic transmission)....

 

[bmount]

Last Dyno run at Powerteq....(Manual transmission)....

What is the Performance vs. Stock? Is that from a chip/recalibration?

 

[Godfadr]

What is the Performance vs. Stock? Is that from a chip/recalibration?

Yes - SuperChips testing.

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