New owner, with a little buyers remorse.

[kd1yt]

Lol, I live in MA and also have a house in Maine I go to during the winter, pretty familiar with snow and driving in it.

I've lived in VT 32 years, most of them have involved living in or driving through some pretty wooly winter conditions on a fairly frequent basis - and I have plenty of practice at it and am successful at it (I lived for one winter on a literal top of a ridge, marginally maintained private road, with a 2wd open diff Ford Ranger (ran tire chains on about a half dozen ice storm intervals)). I've done the "good aggressive all seasons are good enough with 4wd or AWD thing" and also done snow tires. I have landed in the die hard "snows" camp. Snows on their own set of steel rims to make it straightforward to do the swap. Most decent tires will "go" - Steering and stopping and evading problems (like other people driving like fools) with snow tires is hands down better, in the worst moments when the small differences make a big difference. Especially since winters seem to be tending towards more sleet and ice and less snow. If the snow tires keep me out of one visit to the body shop they have paid for themselves in not laying out a deductible, not having my vehicle down, not having the upset and aggravation of damage to a vehicle that I really like, and not having a situation where I end up with, at best, "well-repaired" rather than 'never needed repair.' My snow tires are my frumpiest option/investment [and, in the scheme of what Gladiators cost, a very modest investment] to keep all the rest of the things that I really _like_ having invested in in good order.

But to each their own

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[kd1yt]

re: buyer's remorse and capabilities - my Gladiator is my tenth truck - prior = three Fords, three Rams, three Toyotas, of all vintages and sizes from compact to ridiculous- one of the Fords was a DRW 4x4 1 ton OBS diesel (non-turbo) beast with huge toolbox body, one of the Rams was a 2500 5.9 CTD 4x4. I routinely (3-7 times ++ per week) have to drive up a family member's 1/4 mile uphill, winding, unplowed driveway in the winter (potentially in a foot or more of snow), and the Gladiator with good tires is a dead-even tie with the 2500 Ram, and the two (Gladiator or Ram 2500) are miles ahead of any of the rest.

 

[NachoRuby]

That Rubicon has almost zero options and is virtually bare bones.

I personally would not buy that Rubicon.

I was able to get my Overland with all the bells and whistles for 47,000 That includes adaptive cruise, parking sensors, leather, premium soft top, upgraded audio and screen, auxiliary switches, spray in bed liner, trail rail system, under seat storage, truck bed outlet and led lights. A similarly equipped Mojave on the dealer lot was selling for 64,000.

The only thing I kinda regret is not getting the diesel, but I'm still very happy with my gasser.

The Rubis and Willys's are usually fairly basic around here, and fairly regularly, manual (maybe 20% of the time for those trims, based on when I was shopping). The Overlands and Sport S's, and sometimes Mojaves are more loaded up, and the regular Sports and High Altitudes are exceedingly rare. So basically, pretty much everything on the lot is always about $50k. Mine has a few more options than that one, and was a little less than it by the time I got out the door, but it's manual, so automatic, it would have been right at $50k. Anything outside that price range, I think they expect you to order around here, if you want more loaded up or more basic.

I'll also note that regardless of trim, they aren't charging over MSRP locally. I find it amazing that dealers can get away with a "market adjustment" over MSRP.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

People talk about driving in snow - but at least a few fail to take into account the differences in snow around the country. Even the "Eskimos" had several words for snow, so they say.
Snow in MT is going to be different than snow in MO or even IL and that's going to be different than the snow in Buffalo. And even in one state - like here, there's a real dry powdery snow that blows around freely and blows across the highways creating our black ice that you don't know until it's too late. Wet snow can drift across the highways causing solid drifts that can jerk the wheel right out of your hand and the wet slushy stuff makes your vehicle go every which way as if your steering is loose.
Snow isn't snow and ice isn't ice.
But those who know or learned the basics can adjust and do fine.
Tires matter - big-time. Every vehicle I've had, car, truck, whatever, tires were one of the biggest reasons things went well - or didn't

 

[foo.c]

I have no doubt JTR's can be found for different MSRPs based on options across the country. It makes sense a dealership would order what they can sell to their market, but in markets like the one I live in, unless you order your JTM or JTR it's going be fully optioned by the dealer so they can make maximum profit. Like I was saying people purely buy them around here as they are seen as the "highest trim" so it's a status thing.

At the moment it looks like they have 3 at my dealership all for just under $60k at the moment. For some reason they even have a Willys at $53k. These aren't even inflated MSRP numbers. That's the window sticker cost. What they did to me when I got there was I found out they tacked on an extra $2k for dealer add ons like tint, wheel locks, nitrogen tires, etc.

Interesting. I just bought my JTR in July off the lot at Maxwell in N. Austin.

I was going for the Willys but they were fixed on MSRP for it, and they would deal on the Rubicon.

 

[Mac]

I've lived in VT 32 years, most of them have involved living in or driving through some pretty wooly winter conditions on a fairly frequent basis - and I have plenty of practice at it and am successful at it (I lived for one winter on a literal top of a ridge, marginally maintained private road, with a 2wd open diff Ford Ranger (ran tire chains on about a half dozen ice storm intervals)). I've done the "good aggressive all seasons are good enough with 4wd or AWD thing" and also done snow tires. I have landed in the die hard "snows" camp. Snows on their own set of steel rims to make it straightforward to do the swap. Most decent tires will "go" - Steering and stopping and evading problems (like other people driving like fools) with snow tires is hands down better, in the worst moments when the small differences make a big difference. Especially since winters seem to be tending towards more sleet and ice and less snow. If the snow tires keep me out of one visit to the body shop they have paid for themselves in not laying out a deductible, not having my vehicle down, not having the upset and aggravation of damage to a vehicle that I really like, and not having a situation where I end up with, at best, "well-repaired" rather than 'never needed repair.' My snow tires are my frumpiest option/investment [and, in the scheme of what Gladiators cost, a very modest investment] to keep all the rest of the things that I really _like_ having invested in in good order.

But to each their own

What 3pmsf tires have you run to compare with dedicated snows?
I have run Toyo AT IIs and BFG radial all terrains, neither are 3pmsf rated and do okay in the snow but not great, I have also run Toyo AT IIIs and Falken A/T 3Ws which are 3pmsf rated and there is a significant difference between all terrain tires that are 3pmsf rated and those that are not in the snow and cold wet conditions.

 

[steveorama]

Interesting. I just bought my JTR in July off the lot at Maxwell in N. Austin.

I was going for the Willys but they were fixed on MSRP for it, and they would deal on the Rubicon.

I checked around in May and June and none of the Jeep dealers locally were too interested in discounting from the sticker. I ended up at South Point as they offered the most on my trade and were advertising $4k off of the 2 Overlands they had in stock. It ended up being the best deal for what I wanted, so that’s why ended up there. All of the fully loaded Rubicons had no additional mark downs besides the advertised FCA incentives. I don’t think I ever even saw a Mojave on any of the lots to compare.

 

[kd1yt]

What 3pmsf tires have you run to compare with dedicated snows?
I have run Toyo AT IIs and BFG radial all terrains, neither are 3pmsf rated and do okay in the snow but not great, I have also run Toyo AT IIIs and Falken A/T 3Ws which are 3pmsf rated and there is a significant difference between all terrain tires that are 3pmsf rated and those that are not in the snow and cold wet conditions.

I think you are probably absolutely right that 3pmsf tires are probably closer to snows than anything other than 3pmsf, and I am not sure I have had 3pmsf, though the all seasons I've run in winters have been aggressively/highly siped, which helps a lot in snow and slush. The all-seasons I've previously chosen, I'd picked to be as close to a snow tire pattern as I could find (some of them Nokian all-seasons, that were all-season, but winter-rated, and if anyone knows snow, it's them)(not sure anyone had come up with the 3pmsf designation yet), except not actual dedicated snow tires. But the rubber compounds are still different. A good full-on snow tire will wear out almost while you watch, over a shockingly short span of miles, if you run it on dry pavement in July-August hot weather (been there, done that, won't do it again!). A snow tire's rubber compound is purpose-designed to be maximally grabby at low temperatures and sloppy conditions (and so becomes just about evaporative in truly hot weather). Nobody would tolerate that in a tire that stays on year-round and that may get driven in any region, any season.

I'm soon to become owner of some of the exact Falken A/T you mention. Don't plan to run them through the winter, they'll be my new summer shoes, while I keep running my dedicated snows in the winter, but I do see it as a big plus if I get in the middle of some freakish weather either before my snow tires go on or after my snows come off. Freakish weather of all sorts seems to be new normal.

I am not saying your choice is wrong for you or for anyone. Just suggesting that dedicated snows are not irrational or irrelevant, depending on where and how you drive and how you want to pick your balance of downsides.

 

[AstroZombie]

My advice, if you need more, is drive it stock for a while. You mention you have an hour commute and want better gas mileage.

I have had Jeep’s off and on since the 60’s. (Yeah, I’m getting up there) CJ5’s, CJ7’s, YJ’s, TJ’s. It was amazing what we did with stock CJ’s with no rear limited slip, no lift kits, and on, if I remember correctly, H78x15 tires!
You have a very capable Gladiator, enjoy it!

I have more stuff on my Rubicon than I will probably ever use. Buttons that tell me I need to be in 4 low. HAHAHAHA, I had a 4 banger YJ years ago and that thing went everywhere and it was bone stock and bald tires most of its life!

 

[Pescatoral Pursuit]

All gladiator trims are fundamentally the same. There’s only one area where any of the trims will come up short to a full size truck:

Towing.

 

[JAVIERGONZO]

Sounds like you wanted a Rubicon. It's essentially a small Power Wagon honestly. I thought of a PW before my Gladiator. I didn't need a Heavy Duty truck though. Also thought about a Rebel but landed on the gladiator instead.

 

[Bonanza]

OP,

I have a sport MT. Name a trail in southern CA, I've done it. Well, not the most extreme hammers trails like CT, backdoor, or buggy trails, but I've done everything a rationally minded person would attempt; sans lockers. You'll be fine. My advice is to get to 37s immediately.

The crawl control, while in no way whatsoever replaces a locker, has actually helped me in a pinch. The brake-control "diff" has also helped as well. If I did it all over again, I'd do Rubicon as it suits my needs better and having kids makes me rush on any wrenching projects and I don't enjoy it as much as I did before.

But capability wise? 37s and a lift to fit them are the name of the game.

 

[Gvsukids]

Attempting to make any one vehicle be your "Dream Vehicle" for all scenarios is arguably a frustrating road to mediocrity. I hope you get it all sorted out and end up extremely happy with your upgrade choices. You have ended up with some very credible answers on this, your thread, so far. My example, I needed a part time driver only to pull my 4k lb Off road RV trailer, but I wanted to do jeeping, so I ended up with a MAX tow, but once again, it pulls my RV trailer to remote locations mountain, and I have 12 BOH trails under my belt with 5 more on the way by the end of OCT, so its also my RV/SxS/ Jeep, off road vehicle. I hate it as a commuter, don't get me wrong, I love to show it off & drive it to work once in a great while, but gas is $4 a gallon here, and tires are $420 ea. now ( I paid $340ea x5) and driving to my job, 38 miles round trip, gets unnecessarily expensive, fast. 10-11 MPG when I pull the trailer isn't great either, but 17-18 mpg with no trailer and headed to Jeep trails is manageable. So what I'm saying is, be flexible and build it how you need to use it, then have fun. I'm most proud of my vehicle when it is off road, in its element. Gas is projected to hit $5 a gallon here in the near future, so a 40ish MPG econo car goes a long way toward saving $'s toward JT upgrades and prolonged life with less upkeep. Just my
$0.02

What tires did you get?
I too bad Max Tow for towing but I'm adding 35s for better clearance off-road. Otherwise, the stock tires have done most everything we wanted to do in Michigan.

 

[jbehrn]

I checked around in May and June and none of the Jeep dealers locally were too interested in discounting from the sticker. I ended up at South Point as they offered the most on my trade and were advertising $4k off of the 2 Overlands they had in stock. It ended up being the best deal for what I wanted, so that’s why ended up there. All of the fully loaded Rubicons had no additional mark downs besides the advertised FCA incentives. I don’t think I ever even saw a Mojave on any of the lots to compare.

I just traded my 20 Overland for a 21 Rubicon last week at Covert Jeep. They came off the price by several thousands and Jeep had an additional $1k discount. I was able to get a trade in on my Overland for $500 less than I paid for it after some negations . I tried working with another local dealer and they tried to screw me on my trade in value and didn’t want to move on the price. Regarless, I got a loaded Rubicon for just over $50k.

 

[jbehrn]

Greetings community! My name is Ben, and I am the owner of a new gladiator overland. I got out of my 18 power wagon for it, for multiple reasons which I will explain shortly.
This may be a rather lengthy initial post, with the underlying intent being that I’m having some buyers remorse. Not remorse for buying a gladiator, but specifically for buying an overland. For me to explain why, I have to explain why I ditched my wagon, and why I bought it in the first place.

First of all, I have an hour commute to work. The mileage was pretty terrible and I’d get from 10-12mpg. I can’t fault the truck for that, I knew that getting into it, but regardless it was still a factor. I don’t do any, what I call, “on purpose” off-roading. I’m outdoors a significant amount camping, fishing and hunting. Because of my location, the majority of this requires miles of traveling in, let’s say, less than ideal circumstances. There is no way I could get an open differential 2wd vehicle in to and out of the places I typically go. Not to mention my job requires that I be there, and on the days we get some snow in the winter I can’t stay home. These things all made me very happy to have the PW. In fact, I was looking to trade for a new PW when I saw this gladiator being pulled off the truck.

The vehicle I had that I traded for the PW a few years ago was a JK. It was the only time I had had anything except a pickup truck and while I loved that thing, I could never get past needing a pickup bed. Once the gladiator became available I really wanted one, but went for the full size pickup instead given the price of a similarly equipped rubicon.

Make no mistakes, I do love the smooth ride and the gas mileage. But I do fear that when push comes to shove and I call on this thing to do what I need it to, I’m going to end up in trouble.

So, I’m calling on the expertise of the community to assist me in modding this thing to meet my needs. Obviously I need some real tires and I understand that it’s going to be less capable overall than the wagon was and I’m prepared to deal with that. I would just like some guidance on what direction to go before I start sinking a bunch of money into crap I don’t really need.

Apologies for the long winded post, and I do appreciate anyone taking the time to read and respond.

My 2cents worth - I was in the same boat as you. When i first looked at Gladiators I had my eye on the Rubicon trim. Unfortunately for me I settled and bought a 20 Overland because of the selling price. I had growing buyers remorse since that purchase.

Fast forward almost a year this past week - I finally decided that instead of sinking the monies into a lift, tire upgrades, etc. I would rather just own the one I had originally wanted. There were some other reliability issues I had on the Overland (and black exterior paint…) that made the justification easier. I couldn’t be happier with the new Rubicon!

Long story short, if you’re not happy - you’re not happy. I would rather spend the extra money on what I had originally wanted instead of settling.

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