Oh Jeep... Why you so backwards?

[ShadowsPapa]

Those are ratcheting shifters. You guys are literally asking 'Why doesn't this orange taste like an apple?!?!'

Only the TCI is a ratcheting shifter - the others are ordinary shifters.

I'm showing that even in PERFORMANCE cars like a 2011 mustang (factory), 1 is back, higher gears are forward. I'm showing that Jeep has it backwards. Stock factory automatic floor shifters, mustang and camaro - it's all back to downshift.

The others are comparing the JT to race cars with reverse patterns - or to sticks with iinline shifters.
That's apples 'n oranges.

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[FrankFrqnkFrank]

For a while I had a performance ratchet shifter in my 73 Javelin with TF727
To start out you pulled it back holding a lever. Then to shift you simply smacked the shifter forward to the stop - it would upshift and the shifter returned back. For third gear you smacked it again, it would upshift and the shifter returned. To hit Neutral, R or P you had to hold a lever but for shifting between the forward gears you smacked it forward for upshift and a quick pull or smack back on the shifter would downshift.
The thing was installed wrong by the prior owner and it got tangled up in in the non-drive gears and it screwed up the cable and bracket so I have since removed it (I don't race it now)
I put the stock shifter back in - yeah, similar thing - bump it forward to upshift, lift a handle and pull back to downshift.

After running this thing through its paces then getting into my truck - the truck is just backwards to everything else I've ever owned or driven.

Sorry, not the best photo, but the car is apart for new door hinges and you have to gut the dash and part of the interior to get to them (and replacing all the glass with tinted) ->

There was a AMX restorer in nearby Michigan City IN. Looks like he did some quality work. Super nice guy who recently passed away.

 

[MrZappo]

Papa... I respect you. I think your heart is in the right place but you are just wrong.

These shifters replicate a sequential shifter. It sits in a neutral position, waiting input from the driver to shift either up or down. It doesn't ratchet from one position to another like the transmissions you are attempting to compare it to.

Even in a slow moving offroad situation, the current setup makes the most sense.

If I am downshifting, I am more often than not going to be leaning a little more forward than normal and going downhill. Weight shifted forward with gravity also pulling me forward. Why on earth would I want to have to pull a shifter back to downshift in that situation?

All of the above is inversely true when going uphill looking for more speed.

The way the shifter is setup is correct, no matter how many people attempt to claim otherwise on the internet.

Aren't you just a person attempting to claim something on the internet ?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

There was a AMX restorer in nearby Michigan City IN. Looks like he did some quality work. Super nice guy who recently passed away.

I do restorations on my own vehicles, and component restorations for others. (and I can't even keep up with that!)
I did the Pierre Cardin upholstery restoration - well, bought the material and did the seats. I think I bought the last panel of that fabric that was in existence. And people think Jeeps are expensive.....

 

[Levi.Butler]

I'm showing that even in PERFORMANCE cars, 1 is back, higher gears are forward. I'm showing that Jeep has it backwards. Stock factory automatic floor shifters, mustang and camaro - it's all back to downshift.

The others are comparing the JT to race cars with reverse patterns - or to sticks with iinline shifters.
That's apples 'n oranges.

Those are RATCHETING SHIFTERS. There is zero ratchet when you shift these transmissions.

What about every single PERFORMANCE mopar vehicle currently produced with an automatic transmission? You just ignoring those?

If it was meant to behave like a ratcheting shifter it would behave like a ratcheting shifter. It IS meant to behave like a sequential shifter, so..... it does.

You're wrong. Period.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Papa... I respect you. I think your heart is in the right place but you are just wrong.

These shifters replicate a sequential shifter. It sits in a neutral position, waiting input from the driver to shift either up or down. It doesn't ratchet from one position to another like the transmissions you are attempting to compare it to.

Even in a slow moving offroad situation, the current setup makes the most sense.

If I am downshifting, I am more often than not going to be leaning a little more forward than normal and going downhill. Weight shifted forward with gravity also pulling me forward. Why on earth would I want to have to pull a shifter back to downshift in that situation?

All of the above is inversely true when going uphill looking for more speed.

The way the shifter is setup is correct, no matter how many people attempt to claim otherwise on the internet.

Apparently even another automotive group agrees with the opposite -

This issue has infuriated a previous generation of "tiptronic" users already. VW group went "tip forward for upshifts" and BMW went "tip backwards for upshifts." Jeep appears to have sided with team BMW.

The problem is that most people are used to standard, normal, automatic floor shifters such as in the 2000s Mustangs and similar. To downshift those you pull back. Then you get out of your Mustang and into a Jeep truck and you try the same and it's the opposite of the Ford Mustang.
We're talking historically, and what people are used to coming from other vehicles.

Go drive that 2005, 2011, whatever Mustang for a few days, shift it manually - then get into a JT and do the same........... they are opposites. And apparently you'd have the same thing if you drove a modern VW normally, then got into a Jeep - it's backwards from what you were used to in the Ford or VW.

Apparently BMW went the other way so there's no standard any more - not like there was 15-20 years ago.
That's the real point (IMO)
@syreeves has the best point so far, again, at least IMO. He pretty much explained it in his quote I put above.
Many of us got used to our factory standard street vehicle shift patterns of pull back to downshift - then get into these electronic nudge a button thing and it's backwards from all cars and trucks with floor shifters, I mean PRODUCTION CARS right from the factory before about 2010 or so.

 

[MrZappo]

Those are RATCHETING SHIFTERS. There is zero ratchet when you shift these transmissions.

What about every single PERFORMANCE mopar vehicle currently produced with an automatic transmission? You just ignoring those?

If it was meant to behave like a ratcheting shifter it would behave like a ratcheting shifter. It IS meant to behave like a sequential shifter, so..... it does.

You're wrong. Period.

I've seen it both ways. Others have seen it both ways ... If the Gladiator is the same as what you are used to than it feels right ... If the Gladiator is different than what you are used to than it feels wrong ...

It feels wrong to me ... But now I've gotten used to it ... So, now I can live with it fine ... Until I drive another car where it is the opposite ... Whatever ...

Probably better to take a breath ... You seem agitated ...

 

[Levi.Butler]

Only the TCI is a ratcheting shifter - the others are ordinary shifters.

I'm showing that even in PERFORMANCE cars like a 2011 mustang (factory), 1 is back, higher gears are forward. I'm showing that Jeep has it backwards. Stock factory automatic floor shifters, mustang and camaro - it's all back to downshift.

The others are comparing the JT to race cars with reverse patterns - or to sticks with iinline shifters.
That's apples 'n oranges.

Every single one of those shifters you posted, moves from one position to another and stays put until moved again. The shifter in our trucks does not. Apples don't taste like oranges because they are not suppose to taste like oranges.

 

[syreeves]

@syreeves has the best point so far, again, at least IMO.

This is the nicest thing anyone has said to me this week thank you! ?

 

[TheRealGinjaNinja]

I drive in manual mode about 80% of the time and I prefer how Jeep did it because....well...physics.

A few years ago I had a VW Golf R with the DSG that was backwards from the Jeep and didn't like it as much. Pressing forward to shift is certainly cool when releasing your inner Vin Diesel bang shifting a muscle car with a ratcheting shifter...but doesnt make sense to me in modern cars.

Cheers

 

[Levi.Butler]

I've seen it both ways. Others have seen it both ways ... If the Gladiator is the same as what you are used to than it feels right ... If the Gladiator is different than what you are used to than it feels wrong ...

It feels wrong to me ... But now I've gotten used to it ... So, now I can live with it fine ... Until I drive another car where it is the opposite ... Whatever ...

Probably better to take a breath ... You seem agitated ...

I'm actually sitting over here laughing. I'm not even slightly agitated. I was trying to mimic the way @ShadowsPapa was typing certain words in caps.

 

[DAVECS1]

Ummm I race my jeep, and I find the configuration jeep put forward very accommodating. Just saying.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I've seen it both ways. Others have seen it both ways ... If the Gladiator is the same as what you are used to than it feels right ... If the Gladiator is different than what you are used to than it feels wrong ...

It feels wrong to me ... But now I've gotten used to it ... So, now I can live with it fine ... Until I drive another car where it is the opposite ... Whatever ...

Probably better to take a breath ... You seem agitated ...

You did a good job explaining the over-all thing. You nailed it (not unusual for you, though)

I'm used to my cars - well, the SX4 is a stick, no comparing a T5 pattern to anything else, but my Javelins I always ran them through the gears manually.
I hated their stock shift points and besides - with the cams and carburetion I have, you really need to wind them up before shifting. So I'm used to the stock shift pattern of stock production automatics prior to 2015 or so. My 73 has a 2500 rpm stall converter in it. You wind it up and it goes. I love the feel of a shifter that actually MOVES and clicks.
When I drive the Javelins then get into the truck, it's freaky backwards.
Don't even mention the stupid shifter Jeep used in their other vehicles like the WK2 for a while - those sucked like crazy. Glad to see they scrapped those stupid things. No tactile feel at all, you had to watch the dash to see what gear you were in. It was the worst shifter design ever.
I know kids today love electronic shifting, drive by wire, and all that, me - I want to FEEL the shift. I'd be happy if there were steel rods from that shifter going to a lever on the side of the transmission LOL. Well, maybe not, but I bet you get the idea.

 

[TimC]

I got used to it, as backwards as it is..

 

[bleda2002]

I guess I'm just used to back for lower rpms up for higher rpms. The tiptronics in the 90s for bmw were like this, sequentials were like this. Besides those I drove manuals or automatics with paddles, and from a 6 speed pulling back feels more natural to me too since I usually went 1-2-4-6 in normal cruising.

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