Oh Jeep... Why you so backwards?

[ShadowsPapa]

Because there's this odd perception that it must be able to do "x" in "y" gear, regardless of design or capability. Then when it doesn't, the masses scream in horror. Doesn't matter if it's actually doing it right or not, if it doesn't meet some random "requirement" then it's wrong.

Just like this whole thread... "they put the shifter in wrong"... well, no, they didn't, you just have some made-up requirement that makes you think that. It's perfectly fine as-is.

I figure it was designed, engineered, to do what it does as far as RPM in what gear or what gear for a given load (torque applied) and road speed, etc.
I DO use it in the mountains and there were times when towing it was just pushing the limits too much (my 70 ran 3,000 RPM at 65 mph - so you can see what I'm used to)
When I found myself losing speed going up hill with 5,000 pounds behind me, I did a couple of times trounce it to force a downshift, or manually downshift (come on, losing speed?? It should already be downshifting) but for normal driving, it's fine most of the time.
Even my manual car, with a T5 (that's a 5 speed, folks - Borg-Warner design) I don't shift to 5th until or unless I'm doing about 60. It's made to run about 1800 rpm on the highway - I prefer about 2200 rpm at highway speeds otherwise I feel I'm loading it too much. Chalk it up to 5 decades of driving mostly sticks where the normal engine RPM was well over 2,000 RPM for almost any road speed, and on the highway, about 3,000 is what I've been used to.
My 2011 Chevy with the aluminum LS engine loved higher RPM for power - hills with a load 4,000-5,000 RPM were not uncommon. That was a V8.

Anyway, like said above - these automatics really do a good job. That German engineering is great. I think part of the thing is that manual mode is so seldom needed, so it's seldom used, there's no chance to get used to it. each time is new and backwards feeling if you grew up with floor shift automatics.

It is what it is - Jeep ain't gonna change it now.

I am also curious, and interested, in seeing if these can be reversed, however - that way those who feel it's backwards can have their cake and shift it, too.

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[Trickster]

Checks out.



Travis Pastrana beating his record time in the Mt Washington Hill Climb (7.6 miles in 5:28.67...Tops out over 130mph and averages 83 mph).

Thanks for that link. Been too long since I last watched it.
It should be a weekly watch.
The mans got nerves of steel.

 

[2TH MVR]

Ever drive in mountains? Sure you have - you're in AZ.
You'll appreciate the ability to downshift and use engine braking. I was thankful my 95 F250 had tow mode and the ability to downshift when I was towing over 6,000 pounds of car and flatbed through the mountains out east. And in CO, I was using it a lot, my brakes never got even close to "hot". I spent a lot of down-hill times in 2nd and 3rd manual mode.

I don't know. I'd rather burn through some cheap brakes than cause more stress on the transmission with engine braking.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I don't know. I'd rather burn through some cheap brakes than cause more stress on the transmission with engine braking.

Cheap? Glaze or turn the rotors blue............it's not so cheap.
You don't really stress the transmission with engine braking unless you are going at some speed and drop a gear or two. If you slow to the speed you want then drop into the appropriate gear, there's no more wear than if you are pulling a trailer at 70 mph. (I used to rebuild transmissions)

It's a lot safer than having brake fade from over-heated brakes on a tight narrow steep road. Hot brakes don't stop very well.

 

[Pescatoral Pursuit]

Funny. So true. I find it interesting that so many here actually use the manual shifting in their automatics. I'm sure there are times when towing up a hill or low speed obstacles ... you need a particular gear, but it's not like you are at the drag strip trying to break the 10 second 1/4 mile in a jeep.

Assuming one buys a Jeep because they intend on going off-road, and offroading more often than not requires manual gear selection, (amongst a myriad of other non drag race purposes,) why would you "find it interesting" that it gets used?

Those who like the current shift pattern because "racecars" are not the ones who've been using the industry standard for decades across all domestic manufacturers.

The rest of us find the occasional need to downshift (in particular) and when that need arises, because we haven't been playing "racecar" with our Jeeps, likely get the opposite desired effect, and that may come with significant consequences.

 

[sharpsicle]

Those who like the current shift pattern because "racecars" are not the ones who've been using the industry standard for decades across all domestic manufacturers.

Nobody said they're using Jeeps as "racecars". And there is no industry standard for this, or have you not read the whole thread? Quit turning your wants or preferences into a "standard". It's not. I've driven tons of cars over the last few decades and can tell you, #1 there is no standard for shifters and #2 it doesn't matter anyway. I like the Jeep's shift pattern because it is logical. You can choose to not like it, that doesn't make either of us wrong.

The rest of us find the occasional need to downshift (in particular) and when that need arises, because we haven't been playing "racecar" with our Jeeps, likely get the opposite desired effect, and that may come with significant consequences.

Learn how your vehicle operates when you purchase it. Just like where the headlight switch is or how the wipers work, learn how to shift it. Nobody's fault but your own if you never looked down and noticed where the little "+" and "-" was. Doesn't matter which way they build it. I didn't like how my Subaru shifted, but did I go running to the forum complaining about how they built the shifter? No. I learned how to use it and moved on. You can too.

If you bought a manual and didn't bother to look at where Reverse was, would you be on here complaining that it might lead to unspecified consequences? Because that's exactly what this is like, and it's asinine.

 

[Rocksalt]

Is there a tuner that remedies this?

From the dawn of creation, upshifting an automatic transmission was done by pushing the shifter towards the firewall in the natural motion that God intended. Conversely, downshifting was done in a pulling motion.

Anyone else having difficulty making the shift?

try removing the plastic bag ?

 

[syreeves]

I can agree with your tiptronic views but disagree of the 6MT. It is completely wrong to put a manual transmission in reverse at 70mph!! I have never drove a 6speed until recently.. thats just weird!

I am confused. In the JT/JL 6MT reverse is up and to the left of first, and there is a lockout collar that prevents you from shifting into reverse accidentally.

 

[Pescatoral Pursuit]

Doesn't matter which way they build it. I didn't like how my Subaru shifted, but did I go running to the forum complaining about how they built the shifter? No. I learned how to use it and moved on.

Sure you didn't, yet here you are, running to the forum to complain about the complainers, lol.

 

[jbmdux]

Is there a tuner that remedies this?

From the dawn of creation, upshifting an automatic transmission was done by pushing the shifter towards the firewall in the natural motion that God intended. Conversely, downshifting was done in a pulling motion.

Anyone else having difficulty making the shift?

Jeep is not alone. BMW and Jaguar also do this and to make it worse on both of those reverse is forward and drive is back? dumb, dumb, dumb.

 

[jbmdux]

I don't know. I'd rather burn through some cheap brakes than cause more stress on the transmission with engine braking.

good point but if there is a need to shift down with the automatics, it should be a logical motion

 

[Rockabillyroy]

Besides that, this auto is so good at finding the right gear, I don't know why anyone would bother except for long steep descents on mountain roads.

Last time I drove through Indiana... I mean drove through (it was a sunday and I tried to buy some beer at a walmart. hahaha), I remember it being relatively flat. But yes, here on the West Coast, we've got national parks up the wazoo and there's lots of down(forward) shifting on those roads.

 

[kooltoys]

I am confused. In the JT/JL 6MT reverse is up and to the left of first, and there is a lockout collar that prevents you from shifting into reverse accidentally.

I grew up in the 80-90's 5spd manual, reverse is right and down, which is your 6th gear!

My kids JK has a 6spd and reverse is far right and down. I still cant get use to putting it in 6th..

 

[iammacey]

It seemed to be that automatic transmissions with a manual shifting mode were forward for upshifting, back for downshifting.

Vehicles equipped with SMG, dual clutch transmissions we're forward for downshifting and back for upshifting.

You could buy a Porsche 911 with PDK and an automatic Cayenne and they manually shifted opposite of each other.

Over the past few years, it seems the approach has been to standardize. My assumption is the rise of dual clutch has seen manufacturers flip how the autos do it to better align and make it consistent.

Regardless, it's the way it is. And while frustrating for some, if you use manual mode often, the mental rewiring doesn't take long and you will adjust.

 

[ZoneArc]

Just because something was a certain way, doesn't make it right. Pulling closer to you is more natural when accelerating than pushing away from you .. its more comfortable because it doesn't require the person to lean forward against the g-force pushing you in to the seat.
Also, if you've shifted a manual, you know that when you shift from 1st to 2nd, it's top to bottom.
Think about how you write on a page, in the Western world we write from top to bottom.
Jeep can change it. It's their rig, and honestly, without the context of an older vehicle, this makes more sense in every way.

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