Payload Questions

[stickshifter]

Check my post in another thread where I do quote the paces these are run through to get their rating. It's not just math about weight and gear ratios. And I also posted where an attorney says you CAN be charged for anything that goes wrong if you are towing overweight or your payload is overweight. One mentions a federal law as well.
If you lose control while overloaded, you can be ticketed and even charged with negligence.

Hey there, you are writing like you are disagreeing with my post regarding liability, but this is exactly what I said. A driver of an overloaded vehicle can be held liable for any damages that result from an accident, and can be denied coverage by their insurance company. Maybe our wires got crossed. All the best!

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[Blade1668]

I'm not a mechanical engineer and didn't sleep in Holiday Inn last night or even in last few years.. my experience with my JT "MT"

The "listed" changes for a Max-Tow 4:10 gears, different springs, wide track axles, H.D. cooling (??? To be seen) and larger brakes plus same tow hitch as other models.
I do know the brakes are larger than other models stock from seeing them. Before I semi permanently added some gear in the bed of mine, I hauled about 800 lbs of bagged concrete and then some wood too that just about levelled the front to rear angle it handled like nothing was in it as is the same as any other day, other than smoother over rough roads. When mine is unloaded it rides like a 3/4 ton short bed truck. Do I know the difference between a 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and other trucks probably so I learned to drive in a 3/4 Ford P/U and few other larger trucks. Then my first truck a 77 Ford Explorer P/U my next one was and is a short bed MJ. In Army I have drove from 1/2 - 5 ton Civ. trucks, 998 Hummer to 1156 up armor, 2 1/2 - 5 ton and LMTV's. My JT rides more like 3/4 than a 1/4-1/2 ton P/U. Now I wasn't a 88M in Army but my first unit in Germany required all of us to be trained to drive everything the unit had available. "Ended up being a curse too".

Oh yes someone can be held accountable for a over loaded vehicle in a accident even if not over loaded. If the person or company has anything or wanted to.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Hey there, you are writing like you are disagreeing with my post regarding liability, but this is exactly what I said. A driver of an overloaded vehicle can be held liable for any damages that result from an accident, and can be denied coverage by their insurance company. Maybe our wires got crossed. All the best!

I suspect that's what happened - thinking about one post, responding to another, etc.


The rest is a general post- not a response to stickshifter or any individual necessarily, just sharing what I found from a statute standpoint, state and federal.

I just got off the phone with an official of the Iowa DOT - a Sgt. He's well-versed on laws, Iowa and federal. I can NOT speak to your local or STATE LAWS. I have read there's at least one state in the east with some laws and restrictions - so do check LOCALLY (maybe it was NJ? Can't recall now)

Here's the bottom line -
There is NO IOWA law and NO FEDERAL law related to payload numbers and towing numbers. (for light trucks, non-CDL, non-commercial)
There MAY be a local/state law (such as one eastern state) but the feds have nothing to say about it.

HOWEVER, there are federal laws that state you cannot exceed the TIRE rating. So if your tires ratings add up to say max of 7,000 pounds total (1750 each, just a number folks, grabbed out of the air) and you have a weight on them of 7500 pounds, you broke a federal law.

But if your truck GVWR is 5800 and you have 6200 pounds GVWR - you have not broken a law, but don't get into an accident. Insurance can drop you, you can be sued.
The man said the numbers are there for safety and handling more than anything. Sounds like he's been involved in that end. The testing done shows that if there's wind, rain, or you need to make a sudden move to avoid an accident - you likely won't be able to.
So ignore those numbers at the peril of others.

You CAN be held liable in an accident. You can be charged with negligence because you ignored safety numbers, stickers, whatever.

From a legal liability standpoint - PLEASE drive safely, avoid accidents, etc. - as a good attorney will get every asset you own except your home and one reasonable vehicle (I've gone through that and know the laws there pretty intimately when my father was killed by another driver)
They can sue the crap out of you and almost always win.
You knew the safety limits but willingly ignored them.
My bet is that if it's a couple hundred over, you'd be ok, (like was said, no one goes over a scale every time they tow or haul), but realistically, you KNOW your vehicle and you know your load to within a reasonable amount. And the courts will see it that way.

The Sgt. was pretty on top of things and I was shocked at the FAST call-back and response! Not the first time the Iowa DOT has gotten back to me in short order, though.

Just don't be stupid. You may think you are he-man, master of the universe, lord over all you see and can't see and can handle any situation better than anyone on the planet, but you ain't.

 

[DrJeep]

This may help

@jjs3845 @ShadowsPapa @usnavycdr
@Sal's Dad --- you have a valid point. I hear your frustration.

This was also a question of mine, I have a 2022 Sport S with M/T and my door sticker says my payload is 1046 lbs (I thought it should be closer to 1700 lbs!!!), my truck is fully loaded with hardtop, hard tonneau cover, bed liner, leather seats, etc. I still highly doubt that these extra options are 656 lbs!! the max payload is 1700 lbs for my year, model, and transmission based on the Jeep website.

After researching more and seeing this thread, here is my tentative conclusion: it looks like they have subtracted tongue weight (10 percent of 4000 lbs = 400 lbs) from the max payload for trucks that have the Trailer tow package in their build. Thus, when they say 1700 lbs on the website, they assumed you never tow as you don't have a hitch receiver, to begin with.

Therefore, take it with a grain of salt if you would: if you are not towing and only hauling, you can hypothetically add 400 lbs to your payload. That being said, my truck would be at 1446 lbs and all those extra options from the factory should be around 254 lbs which makes sense (@unsavycdr) Just to be safe, I would never exceed the limit on the sticker though until someone from Jeep engineers confirm this. @JeepCares

 

[ShadowsPapa]

@jjs3845 @ShadowsPapa @usnavycdr
@Sal's Dad --- you have a valid point. I hear your frustration.

This was also a question of mine, I have a 2022 Sport S with M/T and my door sticker says my payload is 1046 lbs (I thought it should be closer to 1700 lbs!!!), my truck is fully loaded with hardtop, hard tonneau cover, bed liner, leather seats, etc. I still highly doubt that these extra options are 655 lbs!! the max payload is 1700 lbs for my year, model, and transmission based on the Jeep website.

After researching more and seeing this thread, here is my tentative conclusion: it looks like they have subtracted tongue weight (10 percent of 4000 lbs = 400 lbs) from the max payload for trucks that have the Trailer tow package in their build. Thus, when they say 1700 lbs on the website, they assumed you never tow as you don't have a hitch receiver, to begin with.

Therefore, take it with a grain of salt if you would: if you are not towing and only hauling, you can hypothetically add 400 lbs to your payload. That being said, my truck would be at 1446 lbs and all those extra options from the factory should be around 254 lbs which makes sense (@unsavycdr) Just to be safe, I would never exceed the limit on the sticker though until someone from Jeep engineers confirm this. @JeepCares

No, they do not subtract that.
Do you have MAX TOW? A Sport S without max tow is like an Overland, about 1100 or so pounds payload and 6,000 pound towing.

Sorry, that's bad info - they don't subtract anything. Payload is payload.

You must subtract tongue weight, cargo weight, family weight, dog weight, food and water, etc. from that 1046.
Looks to me like you have a Sport S but NOT the max tow option. Your payload numbers match a Sport S

If you do not have the receiver hitch, you definitely do not have max tow, and you do not have 1700 pounds payload and you don't have 7,600 pound tow capacity and adding a hitch can't change that.
Plus - the book's tow rating is the max with base options on a basic truck with max tow. That's the maximum, not a given regardless of options.

They do not subtract tongue weight, they don't assume you will or will not tow. They can't do that. That payload is the payload, period. NO, you cannot add 400 pounds if you are not towing. Doesn't work that way.
We've been down this road dozens of times in many threads, the real info is out there.

 

[NachoRuby]

@jjs3845 @ShadowsPapa @usnavycdr
@Sal's Dad --- you have a valid point. I hear your frustration.

This was also a question of mine, I have a 2022 Sport S with M/T and my door sticker says my payload is 1046 lbs (I thought it should be closer to 1700 lbs!!!), my truck is fully loaded with hardtop, hard tonneau cover, bed liner, leather seats, etc. I still highly doubt that these extra options are 656 lbs!! the max payload is 1700 lbs for my year, model, and transmission based on the Jeep website.

After researching more and seeing this thread, here is my tentative conclusion: it looks like they have subtracted tongue weight (10 percent of 4000 lbs = 400 lbs) from the max payload for trucks that have the Trailer tow package in their build. Thus, when they say 1700 lbs on the website, they assumed you never tow as you don't have a hitch receiver, to begin with.

Therefore, take it with a grain of salt if you would: if you are not towing and only hauling, you can hypothetically add 400 lbs to your payload. That being said, my truck would be at 1446 lbs and all those extra options from the factory should be around 254 lbs which makes sense (@unsavycdr) Just to be safe, I would never exceed the limit on the sticker though until someone from Jeep engineers confirm this. @JeepCares

My Rubicon M/T with towing package is 1216. Hard top. Metal bumpers, spray-in liner. No other add-ons that affect weight. That's too close to the maximum of 1300 on my trim for them to be subtracting anything else

 

[ShadowsPapa]

My Rubicon M/T with towing package is 1216. Hard top. Metal bumpers, spray-in liner. No other add-ons that affect weight. That's too close to the maximum of 1300 on my trim for them to be subtracting anything else

Bumpers, skid plates, bed liner, tonneau cover, etc.
Oddly, if I recall correctly, the hard top isn't much different in weight than the soft top. In fact, someone suggested with all the fabric and metal framing and such the soft top was actually a bit heavier. I don't know but seems I did read that here somewhere - someone had one still in the box.

It's really not magic - the number on the door jamb sticker is what it is, and no amount of wishing or trying to figure it out by suggesting Jeep figures you won't tow or whatever will change that. In fact, if you don't have a hitch, that absolutely confirms you do not have a max tow with big payload! That cinches it right there. No hitch, it's not max tow and your payload is lower and your towing numbers are down there, too.

Wishing or equations won't make it different.

 

[ecidiego]

My Rubicon M/T with towing package is 1216. Hard top. Metal bumpers, spray-in liner. No other add-ons that affect weight. That's too close to the maximum of 1300 on my trim for them to be subtracting anything else

I haven't seen any rhyme or reason to it. I have a seen a Mojave with all the of the options mine has - plus 6 more - with more payload. What?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I haven't seen any rhyme or reason to it. I have a seen a Mojave with all the of the options mine has - plus 6 more - with more payload. What?

Some options weigh nothing.
And that makes it more weird.
But it is what it is. They are the ones that checked and certified these things.
Maybe some guy was on a break sitting drinking coffee in yours when the calculated things?

We are seeing why FoMoCo tried to cheat the system by taking their trucks through testing and certification with missing parts.

 

[NachoRuby]

Is GVWR 6250 lbs across the board, all models? I think so, but it's listed on the door jamb. If so, getting weighed at a scale should tell you all you need to know. Heavier jeeps have less payload. Lighter ones have more. We can't go over 6250.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Is GVWR 6250 lbs across the board, all models? I think so, but it's listed on the door jamb. If so, getting weighed at a scale should tell you all you need to know. Heavier jeeps have less payload. Lighter ones have more. We can't go over 6250.

No, it's not the same. I looked it up in the March order guide or where-ever I saw it. Sport and Overland have lower numbers, Rubicon and Mojave have that higher number.
I'll see if I can find that chart again in a few minutes - making an oak ruler rack for her quilting rulers, just got it stained, so I'm ready for a break.....

 

[ecidiego]

Is GVWR 6250 lbs across the board, all models? I think so, but it's listed on the door jamb. If so, getting weighed at a scale should tell you all you need to know. Heavier jeeps have less payload. Lighter ones have more. We can't go over 6250.

Mojave

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Is GVWR 6250 lbs across the board, all models? I think so, but it's listed on the door jamb. If so, getting weighed at a scale should tell you all you need to know. Heavier jeeps have less payload. Lighter ones have more. We can't go over 6250.

Here ya go.
4 columns are, left to right - Sport; Overland; Rubicon; Mojave ->

Sport/Sport S and Overland are 5800
Rubicon is 6250
Mojave is 6140

Those are "unless replaced by options" so the Sport with MAX TOW will have higher numbers than these.
These numbers are standard numbers. So a Sport and Sport S have the lowest numbers (with Overland) - and that explains the low payload number posted above.

Now to finish washing the oak stain off my hands and have some lunch........

 

[DrJeep]

No, they do not subtract that.
Do you have MAX TOW? A Sport S without max tow is like an Overland, about 1100 or so pounds payload and 6,000 pound towing.

Again if you read my post carefully, I have a 2022 manual transmission Sport S. None of the manuals come with the max tow package. The point you are missing is that you think max tow is the one that has the max payload. That is not correct. See this table that is from the 2022 Jeep gladiator catalog: https://cdn.dealereprocess.org/cdn/brochures/jeep/2022-gladiator.pdf

1700 lbs is the correct payload number for the truck's trim that I own. Well, you could argue that Jeep is lying. We are all here to chat and have a good time at the end of the day.

 

[NachoRuby]

1700 lbs is the absolute correct payload number for my truck's trim that I own.

Why not go weigh your truck, and compare to your GVWR? That should be the definitive answer. You may just have some really heavy options. Question: do you have the dual top group? Another member thought they might be counting both tops in the curb weight, therefore reducing apparent payload.

Mine weighs 4,813 when full of fuel, no driver.

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