Pentastar power increase

[Lunentucker]

I also drive an overland Suburban 2500. It has a 6.0 V8 that is modified and has a supercharger. I can stick it on any speed up to nearly 80 with the cruise control and it just pulls in OD all the time. No fussy shifting all over the place. The reason is the motor produces around 550 torque to the tire (Dyno tested) and has that big ole abundance.

That's an apples to bowling balls comparison.
Mine gear hunts quite a bit as well, but from what I've read, the tune is setup to do that and it's perfectly normal, if not even preferred.

My JTM has much more response and power than my 05 Tacoma did, and it actually will stop when I hit the brakes.

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[TheRealStreetcommander]

I'm afraid there's nothing easy. The Pentastar is not underpowered and already makes more HP and TQ at low RPM, than any Jeep 6-cyl before it. I love the jeep 4.0, but it was a turd --it's just that our memories are short and everything made today has so much power we've lost grip with reality.

We also have an abundance of auto-journalist and social media influencers telling us baselessly that the pentastar lacks power. Automatic Jeep Wranglers and Cherokees from the 4.0 era are dawgs. The manuals are too, but their meager torque built quickly and their affective gearing was lower so when the power did hit, it felt good.

It's a natural law, no amount of power will ever be good enough. We always find a way to want more.

Check out these dyno-graphs I quickly pilfered from an internet search --credit to the original creators. Note the Mopar example is power measured at the ENGINE not the wheels. This is a somber reality check.

 

[Zachanadandy]

Half the people on this thread talk like the pentastar is all new and there's no data on tuning it since the gpec5 computer swap. They changed computers not engines. The tunes and increases will be the same once they Crack the code. 41 wheel horsepower and 37 wheel torque from the 93 tune from livernoise as dyno proven. May not sound that substantial until you realize we're only getting 225ish hp to the wheels stock. That's 15% more horsepower for a couple hundred dollars. Run their e85 tune and it's even more impressive. 50hp and 55ftlbs to the wheels from a tune. 20% power increase is nothing to scoff at and will drive like a different truck.

 

[legacy_etu]

Well, I suppose it is impossible to keep this discussion focused on increasing power or generating aftermarket interest.

I like how some people are set to the "Nick pick" mode. I'll bet they have loads of friends. Target a comment or twist it just a bit and there you go, I suppose you "Caught" someone or something like that. Perhaps that adds credibility to some egos, dunno.

It is difficult to carry on a conversation when you know people are only looking to try and catch you on something. Take the AEV commentary. Does anybody actually think the AEV conversion is a Jeep factory modification? Of course not, so my bad, I said factory when I should have said dealership. Dealerships do order these things from Jeep, then sell them and that's where mine comes from. So I'm a bad man for saying it that way.

Oh and I liked this comment as well, " it means you know what you're saying is bunk." Why of course! If someone says something out of order or not quite right, then it must be true, that everything that person says is false, incorrect or as was stated, "bunk." I seriously tire of people like this.

But for those who weren't looking to nick-pick and just generally remain a part of a friendly conversation, thank you.

I agree with you here. I read your post as simply trying to gauge how much interest there is out there in order to motivate the aftermarket to invest some time and money. Unfortunately , it has devolved into “ nit pick “ mode as you put it.

Here’s a datapoint from me:
Personally I‘m “ok” with the stock power currently. I would love more torque but am not willing to open up the engine “at this point” in order to get there. I also know that tuning a NA engine isn’t going to give me the gains I‘d be interested in.

 

[Flyin6]

Half the people on this thread talk like the pentastar is all new and there's no data on tuning it since the gpec5 computer swap. They changed computers not engines. The tunes and increases will be the same once they Crack the code. 41 wheel horsepower and 37 wheel torque from the 93 tune from livernoise as dyno proven. May not sound that substantial until you realize we're only getting 225ish hp to the wheels stock. That's 15% more horsepower for a couple hundred dollars. Run their e85 tune and it's even more impressive. 50hp and 55ftlbs to the wheels from a tune. 20% power increase is nothing to scoff at and will drive like a different truck.

Exactly what I am saying

Although you said it a bit differently

But, yea, let's get the tuning problem solved!

 

[Great Offender]

open deck engine

I had never heard the term so I researched it, quickly (first hit). And got the following information:

Pros of Open Deck:

Better cooling efficiency due to an open cooling channel between the block and the cylinder and having full contact between the coolant and the upper portion of the cylinder.
Lower manufacturing costs since less material is used.
Easier manufacturing since it has fewer details and takes less time in production.

Cons of Open Deck:

Low support for the cylinders at the most pressure point throughout the stroke.
Cracking the cylinder walls or having at least a cylinder distortion when pushing the engine to produce more power.
Cannot tune the engine or use high compression or a turbo to push it to produce a lot more power than the stock.

 

[Flyin6]

That's an apples to bowling balls comparison.
Mine gear hunts quite a bit as well, but from what I've read, the tune is setup to do that and it's perfectly normal, if not even preferred.

My JTM has much more response and power than my 05 Tacoma did, and it actually will stop when I hit the brakes.

Not really.
Comparison is a truck with power to one that has none
More neutral and to the point is power to weight ratio. Using that metric, the statement distills down to how more "push" benefits the vehicle.
Next time I'll use my jeep and a 747 but keep it all math... ;-)

 

[Wheelin98TJ]

I'm afraid there's nothing easy. The Pentastar is not underpowered and already makes more HP and TQ at low RPM, than any Jeep 6-cyl before it. I love the jeep 4.0, but it was a turd --it's just that our memories are short and everything made today has so much power we've lost grip with reality.

We also have an abundance of auto-journalist and social media influencers telling us baselessly that the pentastar lacks power. Automatic Jeep Wranglers and Cherokees from the 4.0 era are dawgs. The manuals are too, but their meager torque built quickly and their affective gearing was lower so when the power did hit, it felt good.

It's a natural law, no amount of power will ever be good enough. We always find a way to want more.

Check out these dyno-graphs I quickly pilfered from an internet search --credit to the original creators. Note the Mopar example is power measured at the ENGINE not the wheels. This is a somber reality check.

It’s not underpowered, it makes more power than a turd. ?

 

[TheRealStreetcommander]

Cracking the cylinder walls or having at least a cylinder distortion when pushing the engine to produce more power.
Cannot tune the engine or use high compression or a turbo to push it to produce a lot more power than the stock.

Generally, closer to true than false, but many many high HP turbo engines have open decks. The real trouble is that they are not as forgiving when clownmanship tuning and overheating are involved. The benefits of open-deck on well designed and tuned engines are significant.

 

[TheRealStreetcommander]

It’s not underpowered, it makes more power than a turd. ?

LOL. Yeah, significantly more, while also being very energy dense, reliable, and fuel efficient, particularly when compared to its' peers.

 

[Lunentucker]

Not really.
Comparison is a truck with power to one that has none
More neutral and to the point is power to weight ratio. Using that metric, the statement distills down to how more "push" benefits the vehicle.
Next time I'll use my jeep and a 747 but keep it all math... ;-)

Have you tried a cold air intake? I hear they add 20 horsepower.
And a Banks Pedal Monster, another 30.

 

[sharpsicle]

Not really.
Comparison is a truck with power to one that has none
More neutral and to the point is power to weight ratio. Using that metric, the statement distills down to how more "push" benefits the vehicle.
Next time I'll use my jeep and a 747 but keep it all math... ;-)

You're not serious, are you?

You're asking "why can't my Gladiator be more like my Suburban", and then when someone rightly says "well, because they're significantly different" your response is "not really, because math exists"?

You're asking why a stock NA 3.6 V6 in a Gladiator doesn't act like your modified & supercharged 6.0 V8 in a Suburban. That is the absolute wrong question to be asking. And it kinda shows a lack of understanding of what's at play between the two. You're trying too hard. Square peg, round hole.

Want to eek out a few more HP from the Pentastar, no problem. I don't think anyone is saying that's a bad thing. But if you want it to perform like a supercharged 6.0 V8, well you should probably drop in a V8 then. You can't say stuff like this and then get upset that people are "nitpicking" when they're simply responding to your very own statements.

I'll say again what I said last time. Based on what you've said so far, I think that even if cracking the -5 happens and you get maybe 15% more usable HP as a result, you're going to still be wondering why it isn't like your Suburban, and still unhappy. No tune will ever make a 3.6 V6 feel like a supercharged 6.0 V8.

 

[Koolcarguy]

Jeep gave you the answer… came in a 3.0 variation… ??‍

You nailed !!, Glad you mentioned it. I've had 401 Jeep's and a 392 Jl . But honestly if you want that kinda power your looking for a street machine not a Jt. The 3.0 is the answer to be offroad monster and can roll down the highwsy at 85 very comfortably with 37's. Thats my answer anyway

 

[Flyin6]

You're not serious, are you?

You're asking "why can't my Gladiator be more like my Suburban", and then when someone rightly says "well, because they're significantly different" you're response is "not really, because math exists"?

You're asking why a stock NA 3.6 V6 in a Gladiator doesn't act like your modified & supercharged 6.0 V8 in a Suburban. That is the absolute wrong question to be asking. And it kinda shows a lack of understanding of what's at play between the two.

Want to eek out a few more HP from the Pentastar, no problem. Want it to perform like a supercharged 6.0 V8, well you should probably drop in a V8 then.

Read what I wrote. I am distilling the argument down to a single factor: Power-to-weight ratio. No considerations for Size, weight, number of cylinders, drag, manufacturer, color, time of day, political affiliation, nada. Just power to weight.
Jeep has what, say 5500 lbs and say 300 hp with my mods and measured at the wheel, say 200ish, OK...Following?
That's 27.5 pounds for each one of those skinny horsepowers...27.5
Now my hunkering Suburban with its muscular haunches is likely around 7400 pounds. But it put down right around 550 ft/lbs of torque on a Mustang dyno
So back to the math stuff once again. 7400/550=13.45
So Jeep pushes 27.5 pounds per horsepower, where the fat burb only has half that work, or 13.45 pounds
Jeep: 27.5
Burb 13.45
But we are not done
We must correct for gearing because wheel torque is a function of mechanical multiplication, right?
Well the Jeep has a 5.13 gear, 37" tire and a .67 overdrive
The Burb has a 4.56 gear, a 37" tire and a .75 OD
Both are aerodynamic train wrecks at 70 mph.
The Jeep has a final numeric ratio of 3.43
The fatso has a final drive ratio of 3.42
Hmmm, pretty doggone close right there
So all other things being equal the Chevy Big Boy has a lot more oomph pushing it than our skinny little V6
No considerations are given to anything else, OK?
Horsepower wins and if it helps in your mind, make the Suburban into a, err, Hilux or something like that.
Oh, and I appreciate your argument, it's all fun in the end and after the dust settles, we still live in a free country and drive Gladiators! ;-)

 

[Flyin6]

Have you tried a cold air intake? I hear they add 20 horsepower.
And a Banks Pedal Monster, another 30.

So I can see a good air path (intake piping) could add 10-15 HP, but I can't bite off on 20.
And sadly the pedal monster does not add any horsepower. It only makes he throttle body respond at a quicker rate. Nossir, without some better tuning we are extremely limited with respect to building in more power.

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