So max towing or not.

Gvsukids

Well-Known Member
First Name
Justin
Joined
Mar 7, 2020
Threads
20
Messages
2,884
Reaction score
2,473
Location
Grand Rapids
Website
www.youtube.com
Vehicle(s)
2020 Gladiator Sport S Max Tow
Occupation
Delivery Driver
The order process does not mean it is not a trim level. Go to the Jeep site and compare models and you will see the Altitude as a separate model. You can not build and price a Sport with an Altitude option package. Once you order with certain package codes, the model of the vehicle can change. So, just because you begin an order with a Sport does not make it a sport. This is not unique to Jeep either.

The order system has base, from which you can configure different trim levels. I work for HPE and our order system can create many different server models from a single base. But they are still specific server models.

When the Window sticker is created, there is zero mention of Sport. It is just a way for the order system to determine the correct final trim level. They are selling this to the customer as an Altitude TRIM LEVEL, not a Sport with Altitude package. I just sold my 21 Ram 3500 BigHorn and it had the Night Edition option package. The Window sticker did not become Night Edition because that is a package available to most Trim levels on the Ram.
Welcome to the forum. You've met one of our tenacious members who has a wealth of knowledge he shares with others.

 

billfraley

Member
First Name
Bill
Joined
Jun 21, 2022
Threads
0
Messages
8
Reaction score
3
Location
Gainesville, GA
Vehicle(s)
2022 Jeep Gladiator
Occupation
Engineer
Welcome to the forum. You've met one of our tenacious members who has a wealth of knowledge he shares with others.
Thanks for the welcome. I am not trying to go against anyone, and I hope he isn't taking it that way. I have no doubt he is very knowledgeable. I can see that from his response. I am just stating that the semantics of ordering do not mean anything to a customer. A back-end system means nothing from a marketing or customer standpoint.

If I want a Sport S or an Altitude, I just ask for that model. There is no way for me, as a consumer, to add the Sport S or Altitude as a package to any model of the Gladiator from the build and price system. This alone makes the Sport S and Altitude separate models.
 

LostWoods

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2020
Threads
9
Messages
1,737
Reaction score
1,831
Location
Gilbert, AZ
Vehicle(s)
2020 Sport S Max Tow
Except that they are. It's not uncommon to gatekeep items and packages behind trim levels but there are actually only 4 actual "trim" levels: Sport, Overland, Rubicon, and Mojave. Even the Sport S is a package (was 24S when I bought mine) as is Max Tow. Sport S has been presented the exact same way as Altitude is now where it appears as a dedicated trim but really, the configurator just simplifies things vs how Ford (for example) does their package optioning.
 

ShadowsPapa

Well-Known Member
First Name
Bill
Joined
Oct 12, 2019
Threads
113
Messages
17,073
Reaction score
18,779
Location
Runnells, Iowa
Vehicle(s)
'20 JTO, '21 WK2, '82 SX4, '73 P. Cardin Javelin
Occupation
Retired auto mechanic, frmr gov't ntwrk security admin
Vehicle Showcase
3
Thanks for the welcome. I am not trying to go against anyone, and I hope he isn't taking it that way. I have no doubt he is very knowledgeable. I can see that from his response. I am just stating that the semantics of ordering do not mean anything to a customer. A back-end system means nothing from a marketing or customer standpoint.

If I want a Sport S or an Altitude, I just ask for that model. There is no way for me, as a consumer, to add the Sport S or Altitude as a package to any model of the Gladiator from the build and price system. This alone makes the Sport S and Altitude separate models.
Ignore the build site. It's for consumers. It has to be made that way otherwise the ordinary person would be freaked out by what the sales people deal with.

The order guide is god.

Select the model code, then the package code (such as Willys, Altitude, etc.) and then the optional package. Note there are only 4 listed -

1655922003437.png

1655921492744.png


1655921610149.png


Max Tow is ONLY available with the Sport level - and yet it's here for Altitude because Altitude is a Sport -

1655921718536.png


These are the 4 trim levels - and the only 4 trim levels. All others are built upon one of these 4.
Sport, Overland, Rubicon and Mojave -

1655921894724.png
 

ShadowsPapa

Well-Known Member
First Name
Bill
Joined
Oct 12, 2019
Threads
113
Messages
17,073
Reaction score
18,779
Location
Runnells, Iowa
Vehicle(s)
'20 JTO, '21 WK2, '82 SX4, '73 P. Cardin Javelin
Occupation
Retired auto mechanic, frmr gov't ntwrk security admin
Vehicle Showcase
3
but there are actually only 4 actual "trim" levels: Sport, Overland, Rubicon, and Mojave. Even the Sport S is a package (was 24S when I bought mine) as is Max Tow.
Yes, exactly. The Sport S is a package on the Sport level.
Sport S is 24S (for the automatic) on top of the Sport level, and Altitude is 24T on top of the Sport level.
And of those 5 is built upon the Sport. The basic Sport with automatic is 24B, Texas Trail is 24J - also built upon the Sport level.......

1655922163311.png
 


ShadowsPapa

Well-Known Member
First Name
Bill
Joined
Oct 12, 2019
Threads
113
Messages
17,073
Reaction score
18,779
Location
Runnells, Iowa
Vehicle(s)
'20 JTO, '21 WK2, '82 SX4, '73 P. Cardin Javelin
Occupation
Retired auto mechanic, frmr gov't ntwrk security admin
Vehicle Showcase
3
This alone makes the Sport S and Altitude separate models.
Those are separate PACKAGES based on the Sport.
The dealer has to order a Sport and then the package for the S or Altitude or Willys and so on.

They hide that from the consumer, but the dealer has to know. That's why there's the order guide that comes out every month or so.
They may already know the codes from memory to plug in to order a Sport Altitude truck, but they have to enter the basic level (Sport) then the Altitude package code when ordering.
The build-your-own hides that from the consumer but if you choose Altitude, trust me, it's got code back in the back end that says if altitude, then JTJL98 plus 24T and when the site renders it for you, it simply shows you the result, not the underlying level plus code.
When these are built, they build a Sport with the altitude package.

Check out any dealership order sheet - look at the codes -
An Altitude would have the Model code for a SPORT at the top - JTJL98 for Sport just like this one says JTJP98 at the top for Overland.
This is how the dealer enters things -

1655922635884.png
 

billfraley

Member
First Name
Bill
Joined
Jun 21, 2022
Threads
0
Messages
8
Reaction score
3
Location
Gainesville, GA
Vehicle(s)
2022 Jeep Gladiator
Occupation
Engineer
The difference between an option package and a trim level is an option package can be had on multiple trim levels. I could go back and show you all kinds of vehicles I have bought where a "quick" option package is the only way to get the model you want built. That quick option package is not selectable on a build and price, it is automatic. Regardless, when you are comparing models, if something is only available by selecting that model, it is a trim level. It really makes no difference how it gets there, when it is produced it is produced as a uniquely optioned model.

If you could add the Aptitude option on multiple trim levels, I would agree that it is just a package. This is how many things can be ordered, like the Night Edition option on Ram. But since there is only one Aptitude, the quick option package is just a means to an end.

On my last two Rams, I called my brother and he actually looked in the system to see if there were any problems fixed during the build in the factory. Sometimes they resolve things before final assembly, and this is not shown anywhere a consumer would see it.

So, we can argue semantics all day. But, in the end, the marketing of a vehicle is more significant to a consumer point of view than the ordering system used to get it built. I wish it was a simple package because I could then get the glossy black accents on a different trim level.
 

ShadowsPapa

Well-Known Member
First Name
Bill
Joined
Oct 12, 2019
Threads
113
Messages
17,073
Reaction score
18,779
Location
Runnells, Iowa
Vehicle(s)
'20 JTO, '21 WK2, '82 SX4, '73 P. Cardin Javelin
Occupation
Retired auto mechanic, frmr gov't ntwrk security admin
Vehicle Showcase
3
Go ahead and argue that it's a trim level and see how many others jump on it. I guess you haven't been in the car business all that long. I won't go back and dig into the parts books I have going back to the 60s, that would take days.
So you are saying a High Altitude is a trim level, the Overland is a trim level, The Texas Trail edition is a trim level, Willys is a trim level, Sport is a trim level, Sport S is a trim level.......
Willys, etc. is a quick order package - not a package like the tow package or the trail rail package or the aux switch package.
Trim does not refer to the seats or chrome on these.

But go ahead and we'll see how many accept that it's a trim level. (I said level, not package)
Trim package isn't trim level.
There are 4 trim levels, and I proved it with the order guide which you refuse to believe has any merit (I guess I made it up)

Don't confuse level with package. Sport is a level, Altitude is a quick order package. And inside of that, you can add optional packages, some only available with the Altitude.

We'll watch and see what happens when you suggest elsewhere that the altitude is a level and not a package. ;-)

I've quoted from the mouth of the Jeep ordering guide creators as well as a dealer order sheet, I guess it don't matter how Jeep defines if it you don't like it LOL

OK, guys - jump in. How many levels are there, and are they commonly referred to as "trim levels" and then packages on top of that, or not.

I'll help by quoting what other members have said for years - these are quotes from other members, as most likely won't speak up to avoid the fray - I'll pull up their quotes over the past couple of years ->

s only available for the Rubicon/Sahara trims, which add even more to the overall cost. If a hybrid system was available at the Sport trim level, I’

he Mojave or Rubicon or any trim level rides bad

There are several available for the Mojave. I think the Mojave is the best trim level for the average jeeper

hat’s why we got the rubicon. Good towing capacity and dual lockers and electric sway bar disconnect. It’s the perfect trim level for off road towing.

Mojave is a kick ass trim level, and I don't have one but

or is it that they actually used particular trim levels or models

then the Rubicon is a great trim level if you're making full use of it.

the gas Rubicon with auto trans is still the most versatile and dare I say best value trim level for someone who needs to do truck duty AND offroad jeep stuff.

This outfit calls 'em trim options - trim options would be trim packages put upon the level.
2021 JEEP GLADIATORTrim Options
SELECT A TRIM


And this web site talks of the 4 main trim levels -


Trim Levels of the 2021 Jeep Gladiator
Written by Fred Martin Chrysler Dodge Jeep Ram
The 2021 Gladiator mid-size pickup truck is basically a truck version of the ultra-popular Jeep Wrangler. It tows more (up to 7760 pounds versus 3500 pounds) than the Wrangler, and its longer wheelbase gives it a nice, stable ride. For 2021, the Gladiator comes with a new diesel engine, a 3.0-liter diesel V-6 capable of producing 260 horsepower and 442 lb-ft of torque. Four main trims are available for the Gladiator so continue reading as we go over each one.


And this one -
The base Gladiator Sport has a new seven-inch Uconnect4 infotainment touchscreen. At the same time, the Overland, Rubicon, and Mojave trims now have an eight-inch Uconnect 4C infotainment screen with standard navigation and an Alpine audio system with nine speakers.

So that's what I've got unless I dig into my archives deeper.
I questioned this when I first joined years ago - and was set straight by the true masters here. For everything I know, there are those here who know 10 times on that topic.
"I know stuff" but there are grand masters here who I gladly bow to - Dave and his tunes, he ROCKS, he's a rock star on these engines. There are others.
And I've spoken to my dealer at length. Sometimes we've just called and chatted and talked about Jeep stuff - he knows I was a tech and love details and I know he has been to official Jeep training - and he's a sales guy that if he doesn't know, he'll walk back to their shop and talk to their top guy who runs things back there. He won't say "I don't know". Never has.

Anyway, you can call anything by any word you want - but if you want others to understand and "get it" instantly, terms can be important.
If you want a soft drink, go to Florida and order a coke - even if they serve Pepsi, they'll know you want a soda, or in Iowa, a pop. They won't say "you mean Pepsi, don't you"?

I just know stuff.png
 

Trippin01

Well-Known Member
First Name
Dan
Joined
Apr 16, 2019
Threads
18
Messages
692
Reaction score
846
Location
Idaho
Vehicle(s)
Lexus RX450h, Turbo Veloster, Ram diesel 2500
Occupation
Deputy Sheriff & Retired Army
Vehicle Showcase
2
yup, go for it.
 

billfraley

Member
First Name
Bill
Joined
Jun 21, 2022
Threads
0
Messages
8
Reaction score
3
Location
Gainesville, GA
Vehicle(s)
2022 Jeep Gladiator
Occupation
Engineer
We can go back and forth all day with anecdotal evidence. Quoting an article written by someone at a dealership is not indicative of anything the manufacturer has to say.

Also, just because a bunch of people on the internet agree with you, doesn't make any difference. The Jeep homepage, multiple auto enthusiast web sites and google searches will all show you 9 or 10 trim levels for the Gladiator. Just because you and some others feel that how the order is placed, makes it only 4 is not really relevant.

Here is a Motor Trend article about the 2021 Gladiator:
Jeep Gladiator Trim Levels (motortrend.com)
Diving into the world of vehicle trim levels can be confusing, at best. American automakers have a knack for offering a near infinite number of option combinations. To help distill this information, even just a little bit, we're going to take a look at the 10 trim levels offered for the 2021 Jeep Gladiator pickup. We'll touch on what's available, what's not, and what makes each trim special.

I have been buying new vehicles since 1990. I can assure you I am not new to the automotive world at all.

You have only proven that in order to order an Altitude you have to follow a certain recipe. That recipe is only available to order an Altitude. But in your mind, that means it's not a trim level. That is exactly why it is.

When an option package is so comprehensive that it has its own option packages then a reasonable person should be able to connect the dots. The difference between a Sport and Sport S/Altitude is quite comprehensive.

There are things you can only order with an Altitude and there are things you can only order with a Sport S. The same thing applies to the other trim levels. When you have to have an Altitude or High Altitude to reach other option levels it should be obvious why that is then a trim level. It's a trim level that opens up additional options.

This is nothing new or unique to Jeep. I have owned many Ford vehicles and several of them were XLTs, which shows up as a similar "quick order" type package. So, by your logic, all XLTs are just XLs with a package. These types of packages just make it easier for the manufacturing of the vehicles and do not prove that an XLT is not a real trim level.

Again, if I can get an option only if I have an Altitude then it is by definition a trim level. This is why the manufacturer advertises the trim levels as they do. All trim levels are designed to force you to spend more money to open up more options.

Now if you want to argue that the platform differences that significantly modify the mechanical or off-road capabilities is 4, then the 4 number is more accurate.

A Ram LongHorn does not have any significant platform improvements over a Laramie. It just has nicer finishes. Are you suggesting the LongHorn is not a trim level?
 


billfraley

Member
First Name
Bill
Joined
Jun 21, 2022
Threads
0
Messages
8
Reaction score
3
Location
Gainesville, GA
Vehicle(s)
2022 Jeep Gladiator
Occupation
Engineer
That's a RAM, not a Jeep.
It's how trim levels are determined. I think the confusion here is platform variations vs trim levels. Continuing with the RAM, the TRX is a different platform variation from any other 1/2 ton RAM. The differences are extremely significant from a chassis/platform point of view. But the Tradesman, BigHorn, Laramie, Longhorn and Limited are just trim levels.

Based on your statements here, the Sport, Overland, Rubicon and Mojave have variations in the platform configuration vs the differences between other trim levels. Trim levels are just about options.
 

LostWoods

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2020
Threads
9
Messages
1,737
Reaction score
1,831
Location
Gilbert, AZ
Vehicle(s)
2020 Sport S Max Tow
Potato, potato. It's catering to the #1 rule in all of sales: The customer is always an idiot.

Jeep has 4 trim levels but dealerships will refer to all major packages as trim levels because the average customer doesn't understand how the packages work.
 

seven30

Well-Known Member
First Name
Tom
Joined
Apr 12, 2021
Threads
6
Messages
480
Reaction score
403
Location
central texas/ south colorado
Vehicle(s)
2021 JTM 6spd, 2001 Cherokee, 1992 Comanche
Occupation
Programer
The difference between an option package and a trim level is an option package can be had on multiple trim levels. I could go back and show you all kinds of vehicles I have bought where a "quick" option package is the only way to get the model you want built. That quick option package is not selectable on a build and price, it is automatic. Regardless, when you are comparing models, if something is only available by selecting that model, it is a trim level. It really makes no difference how it gets there, when it is produced it is produced as a uniquely optioned model.

If you could add the Aptitude option on multiple trim levels, I would agree that it is just a package. This is how many things can be ordered, like the Night Edition option on Ram. But since there is only one Aptitude, the quick option package is just a means to an end.

On my last two Rams, I called my brother and he actually looked in the system to see if there were any problems fixed during the build in the factory. Sometimes they resolve things before final assembly, and this is not shown anywhere a consumer would see it.

So, we can argue semantics all day. But, in the end, the marketing of a vehicle is more significant to a consumer point of view than the ordering system used to get it built. I wish it was a simple package because I could then get the glossy black accents on a different trim level.
Its not exactly semantics. The trim levels/platforms cannot be changed but the packages added on top of the platform can. I believe there are only four base platform/trim levels at this time.
No matter how FCA presents it to the customer what ever they select will layed on top of one of those trim levels. You cant go back and add the Mojave frame to a Sport platform for example or the Rubicon disconnecting sway bar to a Mojave. These are considered fundamental base platform features.

 

 
Top