Sponsored

Swapping up to the 4.10s

OP
OP
'22JTRD

'22JTRD

Well-Known Member
First Name
Dale
Joined
Sep 8, 2022
Threads
9
Messages
194
Reaction score
329
Location
Treasure Coast
Vehicle(s)
2022 Jeep JT Rubicon
Occupation
Real Estate
Curious, how do you figure 4.10s will get better MPG than 4.56s? I'm currently trying to decide which as well and while we obviously can't be too nit picky about mpg when we bought a jeep, I'd still like the find the "best" mpg ratio. The thing I found while living in Utahs mountainous areas is that my stock 33s Avg. Me about 22 to 23ish, my 37s put me at around 20, and a set of second hand sport 31s for daily driving put me at 25ish. So, if I was chasing the 25ish the 31s gave, your calculator says I need closer to 4.56 when entering 31s as the old tire. Wouldn't that be mostly true across the board? I wonder why others don't like 4.56s when that's what I would say is closer to a diesel sport ratio, while 4.10s are like a diesel Rubicon ratio (sort of).
The 4.56 will rev higher rpms than the 4.10 at the same speed
Sponsored

 

Rusty PW

Well-Known Member
First Name
Russ
Joined
Jan 10, 2022
Threads
37
Messages
11,321
Reaction score
30,202
Location
Fayette Nam, Pennsyltucky
Website
www.youtube.com
Vehicle(s)
'22 JTRD, '11 370Z Nismo, '07 Honda VFR
Build Thread
Link
Occupation
Muff Diver

Chance575

Well-Known Member
First Name
C
Joined
May 20, 2021
Threads
15
Messages
548
Reaction score
701
Location
Earth
Vehicle(s)
C
Occupation
D
With all this bickering do any of you have gears in your trucks and can comment first hand ? Or we keyboard warriors…. 4.88s are a bit much but great for towing, 35k miles on mine
 

Sponsored

OldButStillJeeping

Well-Known Member
First Name
Eric
Joined
Apr 20, 2021
Threads
14
Messages
517
Reaction score
932
Location
Northwest Wisconsin
Vehicle(s)
2021 JTM, '92 Jeep YJ, 2017 F250 4WD, 1996 RAM D150 4x4, 2006 Jeep Liberty 4x4
Occupation
Tree farmer now. Retired first responder.
The charts are the same…
That is exactly the point. The chart is the same for any engine or transmission.

I will try again.... I want you all to see it. It is not that hard.

You want to know the RP gear needed for a bigger tire size. That is what the chart does. It is not about RPM, or engine type, or transmission. It handles all. It is about final drive ratio which is what you need to upsize tires.

Put in your stock tire size and stock Ring and Pinion. It shows you a number in the center of the chart. Call it 'X''. Write it down. It doesn't matter if it's 2300 or 4500. Write it down. As I said, call it X.

Then, put in your new bigger tire size on one column, and try to match the X number that you wrote down and find your R&P in the top row.

Jeep Gladiator Swapping up to the 4.10s 1000008189
 

OldButStillJeeping

Well-Known Member
First Name
Eric
Joined
Apr 20, 2021
Threads
14
Messages
517
Reaction score
932
Location
Northwest Wisconsin
Vehicle(s)
2021 JTM, '92 Jeep YJ, 2017 F250 4WD, 1996 RAM D150 4x4, 2006 Jeep Liberty 4x4
Occupation
Tree farmer now. Retired first responder.
With all this bickering do any of you have gears in your trucks and can comment first hand ? Or we keyboard warriors…. 4.88s are a bit much but great for towing, 35k miles on mine
Yes, I have swapped Ring and Pinions on several trucks and Jeeps.

I usually go mid range in tires, 35s, nothing crazy, and I usually end up with 4.56. One time 4.88.

I did my own regears... not so much anymore.
 
OP
OP
'22JTRD

'22JTRD

Well-Known Member
First Name
Dale
Joined
Sep 8, 2022
Threads
9
Messages
194
Reaction score
329
Location
Treasure Coast
Vehicle(s)
2022 Jeep JT Rubicon
Occupation
Real Estate
2022 JTRD
Stock Tire = 33
Stock Gear = 3.73
RPM on Chart = 2470
And
New Tire = 37
New Gear = 4.11 ( 4.10 )
RPM on Chart = 2427

Chart says your suggested 4.56 Ratio puts the RPMs at 2693.

4.10 with measured 37" tire drops 43 RPMs below oem spec.

4.56 with same tire increases RPMs by 266 at the same speed.

Running 43 RPMs below spec is not going to lug the engine and the actual tire size will shrink up to an inch with wear bringing the -43 rpms right back to baseline.

Increasing RPMs raises fuel consumption and wear on the engine in an apples to apples traveled distance.

Even someone "who fell out of a stupid tree"
can see which one ( 4.10 ) is closer to the oem spec.

Same results across multiple Tire/Gear Calculators confirm 4.10 is the closest to oem spec.

I have no doubts 4.10 is the best option.

40s on a 4.56 = 2491 RPMs only 21 over spec

I may not be a smart man, but gearing for a 40" when running a 37" wouldn't make me smarter...

1000008189.jpg

[/QUOTE]
 

OldButStillJeeping

Well-Known Member
First Name
Eric
Joined
Apr 20, 2021
Threads
14
Messages
517
Reaction score
932
Location
Northwest Wisconsin
Vehicle(s)
2021 JTM, '92 Jeep YJ, 2017 F250 4WD, 1996 RAM D150 4x4, 2006 Jeep Liberty 4x4
Occupation
Tree farmer now. Retired first responder.
2022 JTRD
Stock Tire = 33
Stock Gear = 3.73
RPM on Chart = 2470
And
New Tire = 37
New Gear = 4.11 ( 4.10 )
RPM on Chart = 2427

Chart says your suggested 4.56 Ratio puts the RPMs at 2693.

4.10 with measured 37" tire drops 43 RPMs below oem spec.

4.56 with same tire increases RPMs by 266 at the same speed.

Running 43 RPMs below spec is not going to lug the engine and the actual tire size will shrink up to an inch with wear bringing the -43 rpms right back to baseline.

Increasing RPMs raises fuel consumption and wear on the engine in an apples to apples traveled distance.

Even someone "who fell out of a stupid tree"
can see which one ( 4.10 ) is closer to the oem spec.

Same results across multiple Tire/Gear Calculators confirm 4.10 is the closest to oem spec.

I have no doubts 4.10 is the best option.

40s on a 4.56 = 2491 RPMs only 21 over spec

I may not be a smart man, but gearing for a 40" when running a 37" wouldn't make me smarter...

1000008189.jpg
[/QUOTE]

Yes. Finally sense arrives from others. Thank you!

It is not about RPM, it is about final drive ratio. FINAL DRIVE RATIO. Tire size to ring and pinion needs.

You want to match as close to stock final dive ratio..... unless...

Unless you want your engine to spin faster or slower for economy or power at the low end.

Be well. Jeep on.
 

Vtur

Well-Known Member
First Name
Le
Joined
Mar 6, 2021
Threads
11
Messages
1,914
Reaction score
2,263
Location
Norcal
Vehicle(s)
JTOD
Occupation
Electrical Foreman
I installed 4.10 with 37s on mine. I'm happy with it as i don't tow.
 

Sponsored

OP
OP
'22JTRD

'22JTRD

Well-Known Member
First Name
Dale
Joined
Sep 8, 2022
Threads
9
Messages
194
Reaction score
329
Location
Treasure Coast
Vehicle(s)
2022 Jeep JT Rubicon
Occupation
Real Estate
I installed 4.10 with 37s on mine. I'm happy with it as i don't tow.
Overland EcoDiesel comes with 255 = 32" tire and 3.73 gears
I'm guessing the 37s you're running measure closer to 36, very few manufacturers stated size is an actual measurement.
Using those numbers, going to a 4.10 like you did , dropped you 53 RPMs below oem baseline, which probably gave you a little better mpg at highway cruise speeds and offset the loss caused by the new wider and heavier 37.
 
Last edited:

Wheelin98TJ

Well-Known Member
First Name
Ryan
Joined
Jul 27, 2021
Threads
11
Messages
3,697
Reaction score
4,357
Location
Devils Lake, MI
Vehicle(s)
2021 Jeep Gladiator
Occupation
Bean Counter
Yes. Finally sense arrives from others. Thank you!

It is not about RPM, it is about final drive ratio. FINAL DRIVE RATIO. Tire size to ring and pinion needs.

You want to match as close to stock final dive ratio..... unless...

Unless you want your engine to spin faster or slower for economy or power at the low end.

Be well. Jeep on.
If you want to keep the same final drive ratio, tire change percentage = gear ratio change percentage.

It's so simple you don't need a chart.
 

Reddog

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mike
Joined
Jul 10, 2023
Threads
1
Messages
278
Reaction score
386
Location
Alexandria, Virginia
Vehicle(s)
2023 Jeep Gladiator Rubicon
Occupation
Retired Army. Retired Construction Manager / Contracting Officer
Pulled the trigger today and ordered the Spicer 4.10s from the gasser and Master Install kits.

Don't want to lose the top end highway mpgs that would come from upping to the 4.56s.

Since adding the Mopar 2" lift and going up to Nitto Ridge Grappler 38x11.50r17 last Saturday, I have felt the need to bring the power band back closer to oem spec.

The actual 37" tire on the truck dropped the ratio to 3.3 and effected what I feel is unacceptable fuel consumption at launch from stop.

I ran Nitto Trail Grappler 35x12.5x17 for the last 3 years and felt the 3.73 ( 3.55 due to 35" tire size ) was adequate since I don't tow and live in Flat Earth Florida

Tire Size Gear Calculator sez 4.22 to get back to oem spec, so it will end up being. 12 underdriven with 4.10s.

That small amount of underdrive should be acceptable at launch and give a fraction better highway mpgs.
My advice, don't do it. I have a JTR with 4:10's and 37's. I drove it for almost two years like that and learned to hate it. Just had a set of 5:13's installed and it restored my faith in the vehicle. I drive all over the country with it and with the large tires and 4:10's it was always in the wrong gear for the vehicles speed and RPM's at the time. It was okay around town but on highway and in mountains it sucked. The vehicle rarely saw eighth gear. I just finished a cross country drive with the new gears and it go as good or better mileage as before on highway and in all my side trips in mountains. The best part is the engine is not always looking for the right gear for speed and RPM's. It drives so much smoother without seeming to labor all the time. I was set on 4:88's because it would be back close to the 4:10's performance numbers when it came with 33's but my shop convinced me that the 5:13's were a better fix and they were dead right. I drove 70 mph typically coming back at 2250 RPMs and same mileage or better as before. At 75 it is at about 2500 RPM's on flat roads. You say you don't want to lose your top end but I would ask, how fast do you drive your rig? Just my opinion here but I would never go back to higher gears with 37's. Ever. Just a note here but this is the third set of gears Chassis Dynamics in Salem Oregon has done for me and their work is superb. Jim and Russ are rock crawlers and off-road specialists, and they know Jeeps. The cost was just under $3000 including a diff service to change gear oil after 1,000 miles. Good luck to you.
 

JTdiRtyD

Well-Known Member
First Name
Wes
Joined
Dec 15, 2024
Threads
34
Messages
1,062
Reaction score
1,947
Location
MN
Vehicle(s)
'22 JTRD
Build Thread
Link
Occupation
Army vet, low-code dev
My advice, don't do it. I have a JTR with 4:10's and 37's. I drove it for almost two years like that and learned to hate it. Just had a set of 5:13's installed and it restored my faith in the vehicle. I drive all over the country with it and with the large tires and 4:10's it was always in the wrong gear for the vehicles speed and RPM's at the time. It was okay around town but on highway and in mountains it sucked. The vehicle rarely saw eighth gear. I just finished a cross country drive with the new gears and it go as good or better mileage as before on highway and in all my side trips in mountains. The best part is the engine is not always looking for the right gear for speed and RPM's. It drives so much smoother without seeming to labor all the time. I was set on 4:88's because it would be back close to the 4:10's performance numbers when it came with 33's but my shop convinced me that the 5:13's were a better fix and they were dead right. I drove 70 mph typically coming back at 2250 RPMs and same mileage or better as before. At 75 it is at about 2500 RPM's on flat roads. You say you don't want to lose your top end but I would ask, how fast do you drive your rig? Just my opinion here but I would never go back to higher gears with 37's. Ever. Just a note here but this is the third set of gears Chassis Dynamics in Salem Oregon has done for me and their work is superb. Jim and Russ are rock crawlers and off-road specialists, and they know Jeeps. The cost was just under $3000 including a diff service to change gear oil after 1,000 miles. Good luck to you.
As stated numerous times in this thread, this is for a diesel, not a gasser.
 

Reddog

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mike
Joined
Jul 10, 2023
Threads
1
Messages
278
Reaction score
386
Location
Alexandria, Virginia
Vehicle(s)
2023 Jeep Gladiator Rubicon
Occupation
Retired Army. Retired Construction Manager / Contracting Officer
As stated numerous times in this thread, this is for a diesel, not a gasser.
Don't care, he's making a second mistake. The first was buying a diesel.
Sponsored

 
 







Top