Tavares Says Electric Vehicles Cost 40% More To Manufacture

[ZoMojave]

The CEO of Stellantis, Carlos Tavares, has expressed some skepticism regarding the electrification hype currently being promoted by politicians around the world. While not dismissing the importance of electric vehicles (EVs) outright, Tavares has raised concerns about the practicalities of mass-producing them and the economic implications of doing so.

Stellantis CEO Carlos Travares.

One of the primary issues with EVs is their production cost. Currently, the cost of producing an EV is around 40% higher than that of producing an internal combustion engine (ICE) vehicle. This poses a problem for automakers, as they cannot simply pass these costs onto consumers without risking the loss of half their customer base. Tavares suggests that subsidies may be necessary to keep pricing “artificially affordable” for consumers. However, this model may not be sustainable in the long term, and the government tax breaks and subsidies were initially intended to stimulate early adoption rather than prop up the entire industry.

2024 Jeep® Recon Moab (EJ) 4xe Battery-Electric Vehicle.

In addition to the cost issues, Tavares has also highlighted the need for more efficient, lightweight EVs with longer ranges to achieve carbon neutrality. The sourcing of raw materials for EV production is not particularly eco-friendly, and the industry has underestimated just how much materials would be required. Furthermore, Tavares acknowledges the finite nature of necessary raw materials and the need for recycling batteries. To extend the supply of necessary battery materials, Tavares suggests the implementation of hybrid vehicles, which would allow for more efficient use of engines and less dependence on expensive rare earth metals.

Chrysler Airflow Graphite Concept.

Tavares is not alone in his views. Executives at Toyota share their concerns and also advocate for the use of hybrid vehicles. The real challenge, however, is getting politicians to recognize the practicalities of mass-producing EVs and to provide support for the wider industry rather than simply stimulating early adoption. Ultimately, the transition to an all-electric future must be balanced with practical considerations, economic realities, and sustainability concerns.

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[onewhippedpuppy]

This is sort of a “duh” response. And we aren’t even talking about the use of child slave labor for the mining of elements like Cobalt by child slave labor that are use for batteries.

 

[texanjeeper]

And, from everything I've read, the mining details of lithium are disgusting, and terrible for the environment. This isn't shocking at all.

 

[Mr._Bill]

At least he understands and recognizes the issues surrounding the adoption of EV's. Now, if they can just work together and get the politicians to realize their plans for EV adoption are not realistic or sustainable.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Wow, someone better tell Musk! He's loosing thousands on every Tesla sold.
This guy must be behind technology by at least 2 or 3 years. New tech has been developed that will cut battery size and weight in half while increasing capacity and the real poison is not in the batteries (we can mine lithium fine) it's the MAGNETS in the motors. But you know how internet lore and hate goes. It's the batteries, Clyde.
No, it's the motors.
The real rare earth minerals aren't in the batteries - they are in the motors. And now Tesla has a way around that, minimizing the use of rare earth minerals and cutting costs, too.
Soon we won't need lithium for batteries. There's new technology that should be coming in the next year or two that will cut the need for lithium greatly.

I'm not advocating for all EV really soon, just warning - beware of what you see out there........ it's not all factual.
Give me a 4xe. Increase the capacity from 25 to 40-50 miles, and I'll be very happy.
(Jeep says 20 or 22 on the sticker but that's lower than most of us see with the 4xe - my wife has seen over 23 in the middle of WINTER)

Real MPG with a Wrangler/JLU Rubicon. The times it was kept charged are obvious, but the other times with 20+ mpg - that's real gas mpg in hybrid mode.

 

[Hootbro]

That is from a legacy ICE manufacturer perspective and is probably true for them because their supply chain is outdated for EV realities.

That is where pure EV startups like Tesla shine as they are more vertically integrated controlling the supply costs better. Tesla has long lead and attractive low price lock ins for many raw materials that the other makers cannot get the same low pricing advantage that Tesla has. Plus Tesla has first opportunity to many of the raw material supplies before these suppliers are able to offer to other makers. The Murano Live YT channel has done some pretty extensive tear downs and cost analysis and estimates Tesla has almost 30% plus profit margins built into their vehicles. Tesla's high prices are not because they cost more but because the market dictates than can get more for them and is why Tesla was quick to recently drop their prices $4K to $10K across the line without blinking.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Toyota recently dismantled a Tesla to see "how do they do it", learn some tricks and secrets, I suppose.
From what I read, Toyota top people called it a "work of art" and were impressed at the design and engineering in it. Part of the issue is that the other auto makers are still relying to some degree on what they've done since, well, 100 years ago. Tesla started from scratch. They aren't put together like most vehicles.
This cuts weight, materials needed, costs, etc.
Imagine - a company like Toyota needing to disassemble, perform exploratory surgery, on another vehicle to see "how'd they do it". Tells you where the others are.

I was shocked to see my son's new Audi e-tron seemed to be lacking smart battery management and had such a limited range. I expected them to at least match Tesla but I guess that was dumb, expecting a legacy auto maker to be up to snuff on electric.
My son told me that he couldn't charge it over something like 85 or 90% and he had to do this or that or the batteries wouldn't last. I asked him - doesn't your car do all of that? He's not sure.
I explained that with the 4xe you charge it to 100% - the JEEP manages the batteries for you. You don't need to set your charger to stop after a certain percentage. Battery management on the Jeep is pretty clever, IMO - I told him he needed to talk to his dealer and get some details. Could be he misunderstood but if he's got to manually set things to not "over-charge" then Audi has some learning to do.

 

[dajudge]

Looking at some of the traditional automakers electric offerings I get the impression that they haven't done the testing and fixing they should have. It seems like it was a marketing decision and not an engineering one.
Tesla has been improving their cars since 2008. They are way ahead of most other companies not just because they started as an electric car company, but also because they have a lot of experience!
I am sure the other companies will improve the cars AND their manufacturing techniques, but they are really going to have to make some serious commitments to it if they ever hope to catch Tesla.
I am not a huge fan of electric cars but if I was going to buy one it would be a Tesla because of this.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Looking at some of the traditional automakers electric offerings I get the impression that they haven't done the testing and fixing they should have. It seems like it was a marketing decision and not an engineering one.
Tesla has been improving their cars since 2008. They are way ahead of most other companies not just because they started as an electric car company, but also because they have a lot of experience!
I am sure the other companies will improve the cars AND their manufacturing techniques, but they are really going to have to make some serious commitments to it if they ever hope to catch Tesla.
I am not a huge fan of electric cars but if I was going to buy one it would be a Tesla because of this.

When the head tech people at Toyota call it amazing, a work of art - there's gotta be something to it.
And I did some more reading on battery tech last night - we'll be saying bye-bye to traditional EV lithium batteries as we know them in the near future.
LFP will be the new lithium battery - replacing the cobalt used today. Iron is everywhere, cobalt, not so much.
Tesla uses aluminum - others use manganese, today, in addition to the cobalt.
LFP will be something like 20% cheaper if I read correctly, than current technology batteries because nickel and cobalt are expensive.
Ford expects to produce the LFP batteries in the USA (good, finally, not China! - Tesla, you are next.......Elon, did you catch that hint?)

Look for sodium-ion batteries, solid state lithium batteries, and more. There's other chemistries being worked on right now.
The Swiss are very serious about this and are looking into ultra-capacitors (no, not flux capacitors, dang it) combined with more conventional batteries.

 

[dajudge]

When the head tech people at Toyota call it amazing, a work of art - there's gotta be something to it.
And I did some more reading on battery tech last night - we'll be saying bye-bye to traditional EV lithium batteries as we know them in the near future.
LFP will be the new lithium battery - replacing the cobalt used today. Iron is everywhere, cobalt, not so much.
Tesla uses aluminum - others use manganese, today, in addition to the cobalt.
LFP will be something like 20% cheaper if I read correctly, than current technology batteries because nickel and cobalt are expensive.
Ford expects to produce the LFP batteries in the USA (good, finally, not China! - Tesla, you are next.......Elon, did you catch that hint?)

Look for sodium-ion batteries, solid state lithium batteries, and more. There's other chemistries being worked on right now.
The Swiss are very serious about this and are looking into ultra-capacitors (no, not flux capacitors, dang it) combined with more conventional batteries.

Some company needs to patent a flux capacitor just to use the name!

 

[dajudge]

When the head tech people at Toyota call it amazing, a work of art - there's gotta be something to it.
And I did some more reading on battery tech last night - we'll be saying bye-bye to traditional EV lithium batteries as we know them in the near future.
LFP will be the new lithium battery - replacing the cobalt used today. Iron is everywhere, cobalt, not so much.
Tesla uses aluminum - others use manganese, today, in addition to the cobalt.
LFP will be something like 20% cheaper if I read correctly, than current technology batteries because nickel and cobalt are expensive.
Ford expects to produce the LFP batteries in the USA (good, finally, not China! - Tesla, you are next.......Elon, did you catch that hint?)

Look for sodium-ion batteries, solid state lithium batteries, and more. There's other chemistries being worked on right now.
The Swiss are very serious about this and are looking into ultra-capacitors (no, not flux capacitors, dang it) combined with more conventional batteries.

The new tax credit requirements will hopefully push more companies to move battery manufacturing to the US.

 

[MrJeep]

Toyota recently dismantled a Tesla to see "how do they do it", learn some tricks and secrets, I suppose.
From what I read, Toyota top people called it a "work of art" and were impressed at the design and engineering in it.

Came here to post this but as usual SP beat me to it.
There are 1000 examples of this in business school, someone comes along and just changes the game.

This happened with Japanese forklifts in the '70's. The biggest US manufactured one had 6000 parts, someone came along and made one with only 1200 that worked just as good or better because there was less to break. You can't compete with simplified design no matter how much you cut costs.

It will cost Stellantis 40% more with legacy platforms and structure and process, but not a clean sheet player.

 

[legacy_etu]

When the head tech people at Toyota call it amazing, a work of art - there's gotta be something to it.
And I did some more reading on battery tech last night - we'll be saying bye-bye to traditional EV lithium batteries as we know them in the near future.
LFP will be the new lithium battery - replacing the cobalt used today. Iron is everywhere, cobalt, not so much.
Tesla uses aluminum - others use manganese, today, in addition to the cobalt.
LFP will be something like 20% cheaper if I read correctly, than current technology batteries because nickel and cobalt are expensive.
Ford expects to produce the LFP batteries in the USA (good, finally, not China! - Tesla, you are next.......Elon, did you catch that hint?)

Look for sodium-ion batteries, solid state lithium batteries, and more. There's other chemistries being worked on right now.
The Swiss are very serious about this and are looking into ultra-capacitors (no, not flux capacitors, dang it) combined with more conventional batteries.

There are serious disadvantages to LFP, cold being one of them. Also, the Ford plant, while planned to be built in Michigan, sources a majority of the components from China. So basically it's being "assembled" here but using mostly overseas components/minerals. Better than nothing I suppose but not what we all think of when we hear "made in america " and all that tax money we passed to promote production here will wind up finding it's way into the good ole CCP's pockets.

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