To winch or not to winch

[Pilsner]

Winch. I would still be camping in the truck if I didn't have one. On several unexpected occasions.

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[WILDHOBO]

Sure, I’ll bite. Cost had nothing to do with it (but FWIW my Blue Sea 6006 switch is like $25-30, so yeah it is a little cheaper). I didn't want to eat up one of my four aux switches (and I’d like to keep it to just the four, not add an additional controller and tons of wiring). But the main thing is having a dumb-stupid safety backup. Power solenoids and contactors can get stuck-on while winching, unable to break the contact (check youtube what that looks like; there’s often a fire). Is it likely that both the main pack and the disconnect solenoid would fail, probably not. But I prefer something with fewer moving parts here.

When going off-road, I’m stopping to deflate, unlock my hood latches, and do a general check anyway. I flip the winch switch on while waiting for the tires so there’s no extra time cost.

Good explanation. Much appreciated. I agree. It’s not likely to fail, but I can see why the solenoid has one more failure point. I did choose to buy Warn’s solenoid, so it’s been tested with the winch I’m running. I like keeping vendor finger pointing to a minimum when possible. I do like that my winch isn’t energized ever, except during actual use. I also like the safety features on the Zeon. They have a switch that needs to be turned on to allow remote connectivity (transmitter/receiver power switch), and the remote requires holding two buttons for several seconds to confirm the intention to enter the winching menu. It’s overkill for the winch installed as insurance, but I believe all makes sense for the person using it a lot. I’ve not had a problem with mine, and I winch a lot, just due to the difficulty of some of the trails I do. I’m a tool person, and love using tools. So I’m the opposite of the people that feel defeated if they need to pull cable. I’m happiest if every tool I bring gets used. But I’m a wack job.

 

[WILDHOBO]

In the past, I've used a come-along plus block-and-tackle (pulley box), got my '88 Bronco out just fine. You can get both for very, very short money. Google around, there are some pretty clever mods for them. Sure it's not "pull the cord and hit the button", but they fit under the seat and you can use them for other projects (moved a shed once). Had a tree guy drop a huge Norway Maple and he had a winch on his tractor, he used that to control the initial tip/lean while he cut, with a remote control while he sawed, so it didn't hit the house (suspenders and belt). So, plus one there for your jeep power winch column. Just consider the problem you're trying to solve-- if it's to get unstuck, there are ways to do it (tall jack also helpful depending on terrain).

I think an important thing to see the difference between wanting to get unstuck from mud, sand, snow, etc, and being able to safely get out of a possible rollover or unstable situation without vehicle damage. I just two weeks ago was on an obstacle where the only way to get up it without flipping over, put me squarely in front of a wall, where I then needed to do a 90 degree left turn to safely exit the ledge I was on. The only way to do it without risk to vehicle or people was ti winch myself to the left while making the last few feet of the ascent.
So I’m not arguing. I’m just saying not all situations can be solved with comealongs, wheel winches, or high lifts. So if the problem you’re trying to solve is strictly traction related pulls, maybe manual options make a ton of sense. But to get maximum flexibility for tough trail safety, a power winch has no substitute.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Good explanation. Much appreciated. I agree. It’s not likely to fail, but I can see why the solenoid has one more failure point. I did choose to buy Warn’s solenoid, so it’s been tested with the winch I’m running. I like keeping vendor finger pointing to a minimum when possible. I do like that my winch isn’t energized ever, except during actual use. I also like the safety features on the Zeon. They have a switch that needs to be turned on to allow remote connectivity (transmitter/receiver power switch), and the remote requires holding two buttons for several seconds to confirm the intention to enter the winching menu. It’s overkill for the winch installed as insurance, but I believe all makes sense for the person using it a lot. I’ve not had a problem with mine, and I winch a lot, just due to the difficulty of some of the trails I do. I’m a tool person, and love using tools. So I’m the opposite of the people that feel defeated if they need to pull cable. I’m happiest if every tool I bring gets used. But I’m a wack job.

The problem isn't so much that it's a solenoid as it is the installer and winch user - exceeding duty cycles. People put a max load on and then hit the button and just keep pulling until out (OK, fairly, not all, but some literally do just that)
Hook up, hold button down until out even if it's over a minute. Then wonder why things get hot.
I've no fear of the solenoid unless I get impatient, greedy in a way, and want to keep on pulling until done. I don't even do lighter pulls that way.
Solenoids stick because of low hold-in voltage cause by low system voltage, or exceeding the duty cycle of winch and/or solenoid.
Yes, there can be other reasons, and other failures, but how many bump the idle up when winching?

 

[WILDHOBO]

The problem isn't so much that it's a solenoid as it is the installer and winch user - exceeding duty cycles. People put a max load on and then hit the button and just keep pulling until out (OK, fairly, not all, but some literally do just that)
Hook up, hold button down until out even if it's over a minute. Then wonder why things get hot.
I've no fear of the solenoid unless I get impatient, greedy in a way, and want to keep on pulling until done. I don't even do lighter pulls that way.
Solenoids stick because of low hold-in voltage cause by low system voltage, or exceeding the duty cycle of winch and/or solenoid.
Yes, there can be other reasons, and other failures, but how many bump the idle up when winching?

Not a single argument from me. I use a winch as a helper, in conjunction with drivetrain torque. If it seems labored, I stop. And I usually stop every few seconds anyway to reevaluate. A long sustained pull for me would be 15 seconds. I like controlled bursts. I would love to say I’m always throttled to 2000 when winching, but I’m not. But I do monitor winch temp and battery health during winching.

 

[Terminus33]

Both Wildhobo and Shadowspapa have good points about keeping the vehicle rpm up at or above 2000.

Even without a winch I have tested the tazer option for "winch mode" which automatically increases the rpm to 2000 and it does the job. Do these trucks with the variable voltage control still need that rpm boost though? ?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Both Wildhobo and Shadowspapa have good points about keeping the vehicle rpm up at or above 2000.

Even without a winch I have tested the tazer option for "winch mode" which automatically increases the rpm to 2000 and it does the job. Do these trucks with the variable voltage control still need that rpm boost though? ?

I would bet they would because I've noticed my voltage drop big-time when I do heavy snow plow maneuvering. The alternator is going to need RPM to put out serious amperage.
Unless these are somehow weird, typically alternator output was measured and rated at a fairly high RPM.

It's not so much that it needs a voltage boost, but the voltage needs to be kept up while pulling that many amps from the system.

BTW - JSCAN can also do this if you use it with the security bypass cable. You can choose the RPM up to around 2,000.
I had thought about seeing if JSCAN has a number like 1,000 in the incremental increases they include - handy for plowing, keeping power up for the EHPS pump as well as the load of the hydraulics of the plow (which isn't anywhere near winch loads)

 

[WILDHOBO]

Both Wildhobo and Shadowspapa have good points about keeping the vehicle rpm up at or above 2000.

Even without a winch I have tested the tazer option for "winch mode" which automatically increases the rpm to 2000 and it does the job. Do these trucks with the variable voltage control still need that rpm boost though? ?

I can only say that I’ve had no battery or winch problems without holding it at 2000rpms. When I’m winching myself, the likelihood is that I’m at least at 2k in 4L. When I’m stationary and winching someone else, I’m admittedly paying more attention to the brakes and the angles than the rpms.

 

[WILDHOBO]

I would bet they would because I've noticed my voltage drop big-time when I do heavy snow plow maneuvering. The alternator is going to need RPM to put out serious amperage.
Unless these are somehow weird, typically alternator output was measured and rated at a fairly high RPM.

It's not so much that it needs a voltage boost, but the voltage needs to be kept up while pulling that many amps from the system.

BTW - JSCAN can also do this if you use it with the security bypass cable. You can choose the RPM up to around 2,000.
I had thought about seeing if JSCAN has a number like 1,000 in the incremental increases they include - handy for plowing, keeping power up for the EHPS pump as well as the load of the hydraulics of the plow (which isn't anywhere near winch loads)

I wonder how much it matters which alternator is used. I have the larger 240amp alternator.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I wonder how much it matters which alternator is used. I have the larger 240amp alternator.

The alternator will supply all it can at a given RPM and regulated voltage level, the rest will come from the battery.

Good example is when I load test an alternator I've worked on - when I turn that dial and increase the load, once the alternator is putting out all it can the voltage will drop and anything else is being pulled from my tester battery - the alternator will max out, read xx amps, but I keep pulling more, the voltage drops as I'm taking it from the battery at that point.

 

[RockAltered]

If you plan to keep your JT for a few more years and can afford a quality winch you should already have one.

 

[AEsco48]

You can get out of 99% of situations w/o a winch if you have the right gear/prepared for not having a winch. But it takes a lot more time vs with a winch its quick (most of the time).
I got a winch because I go offroading with my wife and under 5 year old kids. While I may think its fun to get stuck, spend the night and then get un stuck (we have Sat communication). Thats not an option with the wife and kids (its also not practical to take everything we need to spend the night if we were to have to on ever off road day trip).

 

[BearDog]

I've got a winch on the JT. Never used it...yet. I've used the winches on my previously owned Jeeps only a few times in years.

I view a winch like I view my weapon. Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

 

[Ryan...]

I got a winch because I go offroading with my wife and under 5 year old kids.

I've got a winch on the JT. Never used it...yet. I've used the winches on my previously owned Jeeps only a few times in years.

I view a winch like I view my weapon. Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

+1 to both of these. Yeah, I can probably get out with some traction pads, a shovel, and a heavy right foot, OR I can run a line to the nearest tree and pull myself out in 3 minutes.

I was going to wait to buy mine because I won't be doing any family wheeling for at least another year (until the little one is big enough), but I got a killer deal through HF and bought my Badlands Apex + tree saver + shackle for $370.

 

[Jeeperjamie]

Put a kill switch on between the battery and winch, problem solved. You won't need a winch until you need one, if you know what I mean.

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