Towing issue with a 2024 Rubicon

[bleda2002]

Ill see 4k rpms towing regularly, but it's a 7.5' wide camper and I'm on 38s with 5.13s. it's all about the aero and not the weight, small low and not that wide doesn't do much but throw in that tall wide front and even light campers will be felt.

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[ShadowsPapa]

Ill see 4k rpms towing regularly, but it's a 7.5' wide camper and I'm on 38s with 5.13s. it's all about the aero and not the weight, small low and not that wide doesn't do much but throw in that tall wide front and even light campers will be felt.

Exactly, and a long flat side surface is really bad DRAG. Longer you go, the more it drags on the tow vehicle, even if it's not any extra weight. The longer the uninterrupted side is, the more drag.
then add the frontage, wow.

 

[bleda2002]

Exactly, and a long flat side surface is really bad DRAG. Longer you go, the more it drags on the tow vehicle, even if it's not any extra weight. The longer the uninterrupted side is, the more drag.
then add the frontage, wow.

I towed a 3k pound a liner that tucked in nice and tight behind the truck with it not being taller than the bed and I could fly with that thing and not notice it, but the camper empty is only a few hundred pounds heavier and it's a real drag haha

 

[handyman98]

Ill see 4k rpms towing regularly, but it's a 7.5' wide camper and I'm on 38s with 5.13s. it's all about the aero and not the weight, small low and not that wide doesn't do much but throw in that tall wide front and even light campers will be felt.

Mine is small compare to a 8-9ft trailer....a little less than 7ft tall and about as wide as the Jeep. When I tow it with our other SUV that is a little taller than the Jeep, the RPMs are about 2200 and I can't even tell I'm towing but I also have more hp & torque.

 

[Zachanadandy]

4k rpm isn't even to the torque peak on the 3.6L and nowhere near the 6200rpm hp peak. That's not struggling to get to 65mph, it's putting the engine in the power band in order to accelerate. Manual shifting to lower the rpms is fine once up to speed, the the reality is this engine needs to rev to do anything. You definitely don't want to manually shift to keep the rpms low while accelerating or climbing grades. That's very hard on the engine as it's not making power down there.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

4k rpm isn't even to the torque peak on the 3.6L and nowhere near the 6200rpm hp peak. That's not struggling to get to 65mph, it's putting the engine in the power band in order to accelerate. Manual shifting to lower the rpms is fine once up to speed, the the reality is this engine needs to rev to do anything. You definitely don't want to manually shift to keep the rpms low while accelerating or climbing grades. That's very hard on the engine as it's not making power down there.

It may even increase wear rates trying to keep it too low -
Cylinder combustion pressures rise - increasing outward thrust on the rings
The PCM senses the increases torque demand and puts it into high lift mode. (so now you are running in high lift mode at under 2500 RPM)
It also means more force against the piston while it's operating at an angle, thrust wear on the skirts.

The Chevy people told me - when I first towed with my 2011 Silverado and I hit the hills on I80 east of here and the truck jumped to 5,000 RPM - yeah, it was 5,000+ rpm) - LET IT.
They said it's made to rev and that's where the power is.

And yet we believe we're doing these a favor keeping the RPM below 2,500 rpm.

I don't tow with mine that low. I will use manual mode to prevent hunting, otherwise, I let it wind up, and my oil analysis reports come back great.
If on a total flat, no wind, you'll see lower 2,000's but then with a long side on a camper, it's a lot of DRAG, so it's going to need power - it's going to be working hard to pull a long, flat-sided thing.

The sides of a trailer create drag. The longer and flatter they are, the more DRAG, or pull against the tow vehicle there is. Doesn't matter if the thing only weighs 2,000 pounds, you have a long, flat thing behind you grabbing the air and trying to hold you back.

And no, the TCM and PCM working together are smarter than any human can be. That's a silly statement to think you are being smarter than the vehicle in tow mode by holding RPM down - you are doing what engineers don't want to happen. It's not being smarter - holding RPM too far down isn't smart, it's harder on the engine.

 

[Figmo]

This sounds about right to me. My Rubi tows like a pig. My camper's right around the 3K mark and my 2 door Bronco with a 2.7L motor tows it way better than the Rubi does. Better at highway speeds. Better at hill climbs.

I recognize that the Bronco EcoBoost is a twin turbo motor so apples and oranges for comparing but somehow I always just thought that a "truck" should somehow tow better than an "SUV".

BUT....now that all that negativity is out of the way - the Gladiator DOES have a much higher rated tow capacity. Almost double that of my Bronco. So, regardless of performance, if I needed to tow a heavy load like a skid steer or something like that - I'd always reach for the Gladiator fob.

But tooling around on/off road with the camper behind me....I find little joy in towing with the Rubi.

 

[ChrisNLA]

Wind drag is a monster.

I have pulled my buddies car trailer before - all steel deck, dual batteries and winch in the front, pull out ramps, etc. It's heavy, but at 60 MPH my truck will cruise in 6th at low RPM no problem (empty trailer).

My in laws utility trailer, two axle with a lift up gate is ridiculous. Similar size and weight as the car trailer but with the tailgate in the wind you might as well have 3,500 pounds more on it.

Even my little 5x10 is wild with that. Tailgate off and tailgate on when empty is the different between an entire gear at 60MPH regardless of weight

 

[Stan H]

It may even increase wear rates trying to keep it too low -
Cylinder combustion pressures rise - increasing outward thrust on the rings
The PCM senses the increases torque demand and puts it into high lift mode. (so now you are running in high lift mode at under 2500 RPM)
It also means more force against the piston while it's operating at an angle, thrust wear on the skirts.

The Chevy people told me - when I first towed with my 2011 Silverado and I hit the hills on I80 east of here and the truck jumped to 5,000 RPM - yeah, it was 5,000+ rpm) - LET IT.
They said it's made to rev and that's where the power is.

And yet we believe we're doing these a favor keeping the RPM below 2,500 rpm.

I don't tow with mine that low. I will use manual mode to prevent hunting, otherwise, I let it wind up, and my oil analysis reports come back great.
If on a total flat, no wind, you'll see lower 2,000's but then with a long side on a camper, it's a lot of DRAG, so it's going to need power - it's going to be working hard to pull a long, flat-sided thing.

The sides of a trailer create drag. The longer and flatter they are, the more DRAG, or pull against the tow vehicle there is. Doesn't matter if the thing only weighs 2,000 pounds, you have a long, flat thing behind you grabbing the air and trying to hold you back.

And no, the TCM and PCM working together are smarter than any human can be. That's a silly statement to think you are being smarter than the vehicle in tow mode by holding RPM down - you are doing what engineers don't want to happen. It's not being smarter - holding RPM too far down isn't smart, it's harder on the engine.

Maybe on Chevy and again that didnt work out so good for them .
Tow mode .. none on these ...which I think is missing the boat in design.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Maybe on Chevy and again that didnt work out so good for them .
Tow mode .. none on these ...which I think is missing the boat in design.

Yes, there is tow mode on these. It's automatic. We covered in another thread when there's a connection to the trailer plug in the back and the extra torque demand is sensed, the shift patterns and such are modified. No button, but the tow mode is there.

 

[Stan H]

Yes, there is tow mode on these. It's automatic. We covered in another thread when there's a connection to the trailer plug in the back and the extra torque demand is sensed, the shift patterns and such are modified. No button, but the tow mode is there.

I never really noticed anything other than it stays in a gear going down hill while pulling my small pop up

 

[bleda2002]

I never really noticed anything other than it stays in a gear going down hill while pulling my small pop up

It adjusts based on the drag it senses vs normal. Towing the a liner basically no change, towing the nobo it holds gears way longer, goes to redline more often accelerating, doesn't try to shift to an over drive gear etc. it's actually a pretty smart programming if a bit aggressive

 

[Stan H]

It adjusts based on the drag it senses vs normal. Towing the a liner basically no change, towing the nobo it holds gears way longer, goes to redline more often accelerating, doesn't try to shift to an over drive gear etc. it's actually a pretty smart programming if a bit aggressive

Must be . Hmm

 

[Squashead]

I just finished towing for a camping trip through North Georgia mountains with a popup trailer (Max Tow, 4.1 gears, Mohave takeoff wheels/tires). Total payload (4 people) food, camping gear added on a lot extra to the base 2000lb of the trailer (3200 total?). I always notice that in tow mode the shift points definitely seem higher than I expect especially on any incline no matter how slight. I used to try the manual override method which obviously worked but have since changed my philosophy to mostly let it do what it wants to keep it in the powerband and high oil flow mode. The only exception is that sometimes I will briefly let up on the gas to see if I can push it over the decision edge and convince it to shift. This usually works if not on an incline.

 

[Zachanadandy]

Yes, there is tow mode on these. It's automatic. We covered in another thread when there's a connection to the trailer plug in the back and the extra torque demand is sensed, the shift patterns and such are modified. No button, but the tow mode is there.

I wonder if the OP unplugged the trailer lights if he'd see lower shift points like he wants (even though he shouldn't want to roll around under load below 2500 rpm anyway).

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