Travel Trailer Debate- Experienced Opinions Wanted

[aj8544]

Take it to a truck stop scale. Pay the few bucks and be informed.
If you're within the rated capability; Please, let us know!

I'll sell my Super Duty and buy a trailer like you have!

God bless, and safe travels. See you on the trail.

All the weights I have stated in all my posts are from a CAT scale, Ive weighed it many times. The weights are also fully loaded for camping, not dry weights. Im 290 lbs over on gvwr for the truck when my family rides with me.

Most recent scale numbers with my whole family in truck, camper loaded:

2860 Front Axle, 3680 Rear Axle, 5280 Trailer.

My trucks ratings: GVWR 6250, Rear axle rating 3750, front axle rating 3100. Payload capacity is 1198lbs.

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[Muddzy]

I usually don't comment on these things because key board warriors will go on the attack. You need a bigger truck. Running 80% usually equates to being over weight. But let's take 80% throw in some wind on a trip and you have a crash injuring your family because you wanted to stretch the capabilities of the Gladiator. I am a retired Trooper so speaking from experience of working crashes with TT. The number one thing I observed was the driver did not have enough truck. #1. Buy a smaller TT or #2 rethink your tow vehicle. Just because the Gladiator can pull it out of the driveway doesn't mean it will be safe.

Maybe I'm one of those keyboard warriors but this surprises me. I was never a LEO so I don't have nearly as much experience with wrecks but I would've thought the number one reason towing setups wreck is improper load distribution. Based upon 1st hand experience I know that a big enough truck towing a trailered boat that was well below 80% of the truck's tow weight capacity wrecked. Why? Because they had the boat sitting too far back on the trailer and there wasn't enough tongue weight. While it may not be recommended, a smaller truck can successfully pull over 80% of it's tow capacity with a properly loaded and attached trailer but if a trailer is improperly loaded then that can be a serious problem above or below a truck's tow capacity. I don't think enough people take the time to weigh their trailer and tongue weight. The OP has done that and I would gladly tow his setup over someone else's who doesn't know their weights or how to properly load their trailer.

 

[Jaxmax]

I agree Muddzy, he is over with everything fully loaded a bit, but he has done a lot of homework and adjustments to get where he is….Jack

 

[Sleighman]

Maybe I'm one of those keyboard warriors but this surprises me. I was never a LEO so I don't have nearly as much experience with wrecks but I would've thought the number one reason towing setups wreck is improper load distribution. Based upon 1st hand experience I know that a big enough truck towing a trailered boat that was well below 80% of the truck's tow weight capacity wrecked. Why? Because they had the boat sitting too far back on the trailer and there wasn't enough tongue weight. While it may not be recommended, a smaller truck can successfully pull over 80% of it's tow capacity with a properly loaded and attached trailer but if a trailer is improperly loaded then that can be a serious problem above or below a truck's tow capacity. I don't think enough people take the time to weigh their trailer and tongue weight. The OP has done that and I would gladly tow his setup over someone else's who doesn't know their weights or how to properly load their trailer.

Yes load distribution has played into many of the crashes. I worked I-10 in North Florida two counties approximately 78 miles of Interstate for 21 years. I literally have seen it all. Florida averages 1 million plus people moving in and out of the state plus 90 plus million tourist each year. Now think about how many people tow trailers off any kind. I have worked more crashes than I can count on 30 + Ft travel trailers being towed by a midsize truck or 1/2 ton trucks. These things were over weight, under powered soup sandwiches and packed out. People were usually injured and sometimes dead from the other vehicles all running 90+ running into them. I only spoke up because I have seen it. Running 80% fine. I never said he wasn't being safe. I just see so many people say 80% but they don't really know they just wing it.

 

[bleda2002]

If you've covered 1500 miles and feel perfectly comfortable with out white knuckling it or anything then send it. Assuming you're under the tire rating and gawr the only thing you are slightly over is a number made up by jeep.

Take a page out of the european playbook where they routinely get rated to tow more than our 1/2 tons with 1.5 liter shit boxes and just drive slower, stick to the right lane, and give yourself plenty of space.

 

[Ferg]

I thought I'd add my recent TT towing experience, just to add to the thread's body of knowledge and the discussion here.

Background information: my rig is a 2021 JTR w/tow pkg and I pull a 2021 Rockwood Geo Pro 19FBS. The trailer is 20' from stem to stern and with my stuff in it, weighs ≈3,500#. I do use a weight-distribution hitch. I use the Curt bluetooth brake controller. This is my first big trip with this setup. Previously I had a much smaller TT from Riverside Retro.

Last month I went from where I live in NETX to Hobbs, NM; Carlsbad, NM; Roswell, NM; Alamogordo, NM and White Sands National Park; up to Meteor Crater National Park, Petrified Forest National Park, and [standin' on a corner in] Winslow, AZ; up to Monument Valley, UT; to Amarillo, TX; and back home. Total miles driven was right at 3,000. I averaged 8 mpg (ugh!).

Here in NETX, we're very close to sea level. Several times out west on the trip we were >7,500' in elevation. I've included a map with the elevations so you can see just how much we had to climb out that way.

Impressions: the JTR pulled the trailer fine, albeit with ghastly fuel economy. The truck and rig were stable, easy to steer, and comfortable. In those places where the terrain was flat, the transmission spent most of its time in 5th or 6th gear. If there was any up-grade at all, 4th gear was where it stayed ... and stayed ... and stayed. At no point did the engine come close to overheating. Oil temp and transmission temp were both fine, too. The transmission did get up to about 217°F when pulling up long, uphill grades, but that was still within acceptable limits.

Recommendations: Anything much bigger than what I was pulling is going to be an uncomfortable, tough tow in the JTR if you're going to be climbing up hills or mountains. You'll get to the point where you're afraid the tranny is going to fall out of the truck because it spends so much time in 4th gear LOL. Clearly it can handle the towing, but it really has to work to get you there. The fuel economy is what will really give you nightmares. If you fill up your tank, immediately start looking for the next gas station!

 

[Gobi Wan K]

@aj8544

I want to throw some gas on this fire. Something that has not been brought up yet is GCWR. Gross combination weight rating. The op says he is 290 pounds over but is he?

This is a screen shot from the 2020 specs so it may be different for his set up. His weighed combination weight is 11640. 800 pounds under the listed GCWR.
So by those numbers and the fact he isn't over on his axles says he is well within the limit.

Yes, I too was a collision reconstruction officer. I did fatal collisions. People that got in wrecks because of their vehicles were grossly overloaded by say thousands of pounds. Or had poorly maintained equipment or bald tires. One investigation had a semi hauling 26000 pound spools of sheet steel secured with 3500 pound chain.

I hear it all the time but I wonder if anyone can find even one instance where an insurance company fought a claim because someone was over by 300 pounds. I don't even know how they could really prove that after an accident. The whole truck, trailer and occupants would have to be transported to a certified scale. I know, we had to transport a school bus on a Landoll trailer to an evidence garage. With the axles hanging off. Was a very difficult process and only done because it was a school bus. But I digress.

Long and short, I think he is good and actually I believe he is legal.

 

[aj8544]

I thought I'd add my recent TT towing experience, just to add to the thread's body of knowledge and the discussion here.

Background information: my rig is a 2021 JTR w/tow pkg and I pull a 2021 Rockwood Geo Pro 19FBS. The trailer is 20' from stem to stern and with my stuff in it, weighs ≈3,500#. I do use a weight-distribution hitch. I use the Curt bluetooth brake controller. This is my first big trip with this setup. Previously I had a much smaller TT from Riverside Retro.

Last month I went from where I live in NETX to Hobbs, NM; Carlsbad, NM; Roswell, NM; Alamogordo, NM and White Sands National Park; up to Meteor Crater National Park, Petrified Forest National Park, and [standin' on a corner in] Winslow, AZ; up to Monument Valley, UT; to Amarillo, TX; and back home. Total miles driven was right at 3,000. I averaged 8 mpg (ugh!).

Here in NETX, we're very close to sea level. Several times out west on the trip we were >7,500' in elevation. I've included a map with the elevations so you can see just how much we had to climb out that way.

Impressions: the JTR pulled the trailer fine, albeit with ghastly fuel economy. The truck and rig were stable, easy to steer, and comfortable. In those places where the terrain was flat, the transmission spent most of its time in 5th or 6th gear. If there was any up-grade at all, 4th gear was where it stayed ... and stayed ... and stayed. At no point did the engine come close to overheating. Oil temp and transmission temp were both fine, too. The transmission did get up to about 217°F when pulling up long, uphill grades, but that was still within acceptable limits.

Recommendations: Anything much bigger than what I was pulling is going to be an uncomfortable, tough tow in the JTR if you're going to be climbing up hills or mountains. You'll get to the point where you're afraid the tranny is going to fall out of the truck because it spends so much time in 4th gear LOL. Clearly it can handle the towing, but it really has to work to get you there. The fuel economy is what will really give you nightmares. If you fill up your tank, immediately start looking for the next gas station!

Great info and awesome rig. I started my camper search positive I was going with a geopro. If you havent already on your next trip try manually shifting instead of auto. Makes a massive difference. I get up to speed then set the cruise- usually 63mph, then move the shifter over to maual mode. Still stays in cruise and all you have to do is shift once in a while. I have found that rather than stay in 5th/6th all the time I am able to stay in 6th and 7th, once in a while even 8th, and only rarely need 4th. Trans temps stay much cooler- I havent seen anything over about 205 using manual shifting. Im also able to get 10-11mpg on average doing this. Makes for a far more relaxing trip without the engine screaming.

 

[aj8544]

@aj8544

I want to throw some gas on this fire. Something that has not been brought up yet is GCWR. Gross combination weight rating. The op says he is 290 pounds over but is he?

This is a screen shot from the 2020 specs so it may be different for his set up. His weighed combination weight is 11640. 800 pounds under the listed GCWR.
So by those numbers and the fact he isn't over on his axles says he is well within the limit.

Yes, I too was a collision reconstruction officer. I did fatal collisions. People that got in wrecks because of their vehicles were grossly overloaded by say thousands of pounds. Or had poorly maintained equipment or bald tires. One investigation had a semi hauling 26000 pound spools of sheet steel secured with 3500 pound chain.

I hear it all the time but I wonder if anyone can find even one instance where an insurance company fought a claim because someone was over by 300 pounds. I don't even know how they could really prove that after an accident. The whole truck, trailer and occupants would have to be transported to a certified scale. I know, we had to transport a school bus on a Landoll trailer to an evidence garage. With the axles hanging off. Was a very difficult process and only done because it was a school bus. But I digress.

Long and short, I think he is good and actually I believe he is legal.

Thanks for the reassurance! I am comfortable with my weights at this point since Im just over on the gvwr but as you state not on gcvwr, and have added air bags to help compensate for the gvwr. Im also swapping some things out like my sidesteps- going from steel to aluminum to save some weight (over 50lbs for the steps alone).

Im also comfortable in that at least I know my weights. In all my conversations on here and with other campers I’ve found very few who have ever actually crossed a scale or put much work into load distribution. Since I am aware of being slightly over I tow even more cautiously.

One thing of interest that I just came across in a video from Australia- they have now apparently increased the payload rating of all Gladiators in Australia including Rubicon (they dont get the Mojave trim) to over 1500lbs. Their version does get slightly smaller tires-32 even on Rubicon. Clearly means nothing for us here as far as legality goes but it goes to show the truck can probably handle more, especially components like the transmission that are shared with Ram trucks rated much higher.

 

[H_pipe]

I thought I'd add my recent TT towing experience, just to add to the thread's body of knowledge and the discussion here.

Background information: my rig is a 2021 JTR w/tow pkg and I pull a 2021 Rockwood Geo Pro 19FBS. The trailer is 20' from stem to stern and with my stuff in it, weighs ≈3,500#. I do use a weight-distribution hitch. I use the Curt bluetooth brake controller. This is my first big trip with this setup. Previously I had a much smaller TT from Riverside Retro.

Last month I went from where I live in NETX to Hobbs, NM; Carlsbad, NM; Roswell, NM; Alamogordo, NM and White Sands National Park; up to Meteor Crater National Park, Petrified Forest National Park, and [standin' on a corner in] Winslow, AZ; up to Monument Valley, UT; to Amarillo, TX; and back home. Total miles driven was right at 3,000. I averaged 8 mpg (ugh!).

Here in NETX, we're very close to sea level. Several times out west on the trip we were >7,500' in elevation. I've included a map with the elevations so you can see just how much we had to climb out that way.

Impressions: the JTR pulled the trailer fine, albeit with ghastly fuel economy. The truck and rig were stable, easy to steer, and comfortable. In those places where the terrain was flat, the transmission spent most of its time in 5th or 6th gear. If there was any up-grade at all, 4th gear was where it stayed ... and stayed ... and stayed. At no point did the engine come close to overheating. Oil temp and transmission temp were both fine, too. The transmission did get up to about 217°F when pulling up long, uphill grades, but that was still within acceptable limits.

Recommendations: Anything much bigger than what I was pulling is going to be an uncomfortable, tough tow in the JTR if you're going to be climbing up hills or mountains. You'll get to the point where you're afraid the tranny is going to fall out of the truck because it spends so much time in 4th gear LOL. Clearly it can handle the towing, but it really has to work to get you there. The fuel economy is what will really give you nightmares. If you fill up your tank, immediately start looking for the next gas station!

Ferg-
Clarifying- When you say “w/tow package”, do you mean max tow w/4.10 gears?

 

[Labswine]

I thought I'd add my recent TT towing experience, just to add to the thread's body of knowledge and the discussion here.

Background information: my rig is a 2021 JTR w/tow pkg and I pull a 2021 Rockwood Geo Pro 19FBS. The trailer is 20' from stem to stern and with my stuff in it, weighs ≈3,500#. I do use a weight-distribution hitch. I use the Curt bluetooth brake controller. This is my first big trip with this setup. Previously I had a much smaller TT from Riverside Retro.

Last month I went from where I live in NETX to Hobbs, NM; Carlsbad, NM; Roswell, NM; Alamogordo, NM and White Sands National Park; up to Meteor Crater National Park, Petrified Forest National Park, and [standin' on a corner in] Winslow, AZ; up to Monument Valley, UT; to Amarillo, TX; and back home. Total miles driven was right at 3,000. I averaged 8 mpg (ugh!).

Here in NETX, we're very close to sea level. Several times out west on the trip we were >7,500' in elevation. I've included a map with the elevations so you can see just how much we had to climb out that way.

Impressions: the JTR pulled the trailer fine, albeit with ghastly fuel economy. The truck and rig were stable, easy to steer, and comfortable. In those places where the terrain was flat, the transmission spent most of its time in 5th or 6th gear. If there was any up-grade at all, 4th gear was where it stayed ... and stayed ... and stayed. At no point did the engine come close to overheating. Oil temp and transmission temp were both fine, too. The transmission did get up to about 217°F when pulling up long, uphill grades, but that was still within acceptable limits.

Recommendations: Anything much bigger than what I was pulling is going to be an uncomfortable, tough tow in the JTR if you're going to be climbing up hills or mountains. You'll get to the point where you're afraid the tranny is going to fall out of the truck because it spends so much time in 4th gear LOL. Clearly it can handle the towing, but it really has to work to get you there. The fuel economy is what will really give you nightmares. If you fill up your tank, immediately start looking for the next gas station!

Ferg,

My TT is bigger and heavier than yours. I towed it to Raleigh NC and back averaging about 12.5 mpg with my 2020 (Got in 2019) Overland with tow package.

I shift manually!!!

Keep the RPM's at 2,500 or below at each shift point, moves out real nice. 7th and 8th on flats or down grades, the RPM's were around 1,900 to 2,000. Occasionally 6th on upgrades when speed dropped below 58 mph, again keeping around 2,500 rpm's. Tried once to put in 'auto' on a bridge approach (F. Scott Key bridge in Baltimore, MD south bound) to see what it'd do, and it dropped to 3rd and a screamin' 4,500-5,000 rpms...back to manual and 6th at 2,500 was more than adequate for the task and keeeping speed around 55-58mph. Again, that trip I averaged 12.5 mpg. Kept the speed at 65 mph max.

 

[Ferg]

Ferg-
Clarifying- When you say “w/tow package”, do you mean max tow w/4.10 gears?

It’s the Rubicon, so it does have the 4.10. I don’t think the Rubis come with MaxTow, though. Mine has the standard tow pkg — receiver hitch, that stuff.

 

[Gobi Wan K]

Thanks for the reassurance! I am comfortable with my weights at this point since Im just over on the gvwr but as you state not on gcvwr, and have added air bags to help compensate for the gvwr. Im also swapping some things out like my sidesteps- going from steel to aluminum to save some weight (over 50lbs for the steps alone).

Im also comfortable in that at least I know my weights. In all my conversations on here and with other campers I’ve found very few who have ever actually crossed a scale or put much work into load distribution. Since I am aware of being slightly over I tow even more cautiously.

One thing of interest that I just came across in a video from Australia- they have now apparently increased the payload rating of all Gladiators in Australia including Rubicon (they dont get the Mojave trim) to over 1500lbs. Their version does get slightly smaller tires-32 even on Rubicon. Clearly means nothing for us here as far as legality goes but it goes to show the truck can probably handle more, especially components like the transmission that are shared with Ram trucks rated much higher.

I am expecting to see some pushback as technically you are not supposed to exceed gvwr. You can't put 2500 pounds in your truck and tow a 1500 pound trailer. I was really going after the fact that you have done far more than most to be as safe as you can. From the other towing threads I have seen there are a lot of people that are way over. If you were towing a 7000 pound trailer like I have seen some do then you better be the only one in the Jeep and only weigh 150 pounds or you are over the gcwr. I also find this whole notion of "80%" kind of funny. I wonder how many semi drivers say "whoa, only load me to 80%". I understand very few people tow enough to be comfortable with it and there are a large number of people that struggle to drive their vehicle with no trailer attached. I have towed near the Max with my Rubicon and I thought it was pretty pleasant as far as towing goes. All these people that need an F450 to tow a 7000 pound trailer crack me up. There are also those that don't seem to believe in trailer brakes. They say your tow vehicle should be able to stop the whole load. Keep your equipment maintained and you have no issues. Modern trailer brakes are very reliable.
Sorry to ramble on, I just see so many towing posts and so many people jumping on to say you can't tow what the manufacturer rates the vehicle to.

 

[eaglerugby04]

I am expecting to see some pushback as technically you are not supposed to exceed gvwr. You can't put 2500 pounds in your truck and tow a 1500 pound trailer. I was really going after the fact that you have done far more than most to be as safe as you can. From the other towing threads I have seen there are a lot of people that are way over. If you were towing a 7000 pound trailer like I have seen some do then you better be the only one in the Jeep and only weigh 150 pounds or you are over the gcwr. I also find this whole notion of "80%" kind of funny. I wonder how many semi drivers say "whoa, only load me to 80%". I understand very few people tow enough to be comfortable with it and there are a large number of people that struggle to drive their vehicle with no trailer attached. I have towed near the Max with my Rubicon and I thought it was pretty pleasant as far as towing goes. All these people that need an F450 to tow a 7000 pound trailer crack me up. There are also those that don't seem to believe in trailer brakes. They say your tow vehicle should be able to stop the whole load. Keep your equipment maintained and you have no issues. Modern trailer brakes are very reliable.
Sorry to ramble on, I just see so many towing posts and so many people jumping on to say you can't tow what the manufacturer rates the vehicle to.

So true the number of posts everywhere is crazy. Especially when you look at what the manufacturer did to get that rating. Like uphill in Arizona in 100+ degree heat. No WDH. Like if anything they are being underrated like crazy for most people. lol

 

[aj8544]

Well one more update. We welcomed our 3rd child July 23rd and very quickly realized that having 2 Jeeps (JL and JT) just wasnt practical for our family hauling needs. Dont get me wrong- you can physically fit 3 car seats, but to only have the Jeeps just wasnt working (no room to feed baby on road trips etc…)

So after much debate we decided to sadly part ways with one Jeep. The good news is we traded my wife’s JL and kept the JT. The bad news is my wife’s new vehicle makes the JT seem even more inadequate for towing. The new purchase is a 2021 Ford Expedition with hd towing package. Rated at 9200lbs towing, 930 lbs weight distributed tongue weight and our specific vehicle has 1639lbs of payload- which is fantastic considering how highly optioned it is and particularly for having the panoramic roof.

To account for the shorter wheelbase I upgraded to an Equalizer hitch from the E2 to address any potential sway concerns. After a few test runs I am shocked. I really didnt think I was unsafe with the JT until now… I was. Despite the shorter wheelbase the Expedition pulls the camper effortlessly. I expected the powertrain to be better- I had an ‘18 F150 with the same 3.5 ecoboost and 10 speed, but I didnt realize how night and day the difference would be. Best of all fully loaded with the whole family along we are well under payload capacity and I can drive relaxed knowing my family is safe.

So in summary I really cannot recommend towing in excess of 6k with a JT Rubicon for more than short local trips. I love my JT dearly, but from both a stability and especially a powertrain standpoint it just doesnt have it.

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