Was the Driver a Member? [⚠️ Admin Warning: NO POLITICS]

[ShadowsPapa]

Karen's attempt to put people in their place without guns all the time without being armed. The lunacy there is beside the point. The people that carry guns and then brandish them are not usually legal carriers. But there are idiots everywhere. That doesn't stop you from being the guy who's gliding down the road staying away from crazies. You can't control others, and having your own weapon doesn't stop you from being that same guy gliding down the road.

New Jersey police are sworn to "protect and serve" the public through their oaths and mission statements, BUT they generally do not have a specific legal duty to protect individuals from immediate harm. U.S. Supreme Court rulings have established that police lack this individual duty to protect, with some exceptions like their duty to intercede when fellow officers violate rights. This means that while officers are expected to respond to emergencies and take action, a specific individual cannot sue police for failing to protect them unless a special relationship or known danger creates an exception.
The "Public Duty Doctrine"
General Obligation vs. Individual Duty:
The concept of police having a "duty to protect" is often limited by the public duty doctrine. This means that while police have a general duty to the community as a whole to prevent crime and maintain order, this duty does not automatically extend to a specific individual.
Supreme Court Rulings:
In cases like DeShaney v. Winnebago County Department of Social Services (1989) and Town of Castle Rock v. Gonzales (2005), the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that police do not have a constitutional obligation to protect individuals from private harm, even when aware of specific threats.
Exceptions to the Rule:
Special Relationship:
An exception to the public duty doctrine can occur when a "special relationship" exists between the police and an individual. This might include situations where:
An individual is taken into police custody.
An individual is being threatened or is under police protection.
Duty to Intercede:
Police officers have a legal duty to intercede when they witness a fellow officer using excessive force or violating a citizen's constitutional rights.
What This Means in New Jersey:
Oaths and Mission:
New Jersey police officers take oaths and have mission statements that commit them to protecting the public and upholding the law.
Action vs. Legal Duty:
This means they will routinely respond to and take action in dangerous situations. However, the failure to be present or prevent harm does not automatically create liability for the police, unless one of the specific exceptions applies.

Hmmm, just at a glance - well said.

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[ShadowsPapa]

God does not advocate for allowing bad things to happen to others, you're 100% correct.

One could really go in deep on that, but - there is free will......... humans have been abusing that since forever.

He doesn't. And isn't. Self defense is completely within biblical standards. There are pacifists that use "turn the cheek" as justification for doing nothing. Holocaust anyone? It's simply not the way Christ conducted business.

Taken in the context of all 4 writers - He was always, in every act, story, parable, talking about being smart, using your head, thinking, planning, not sleeping, but preparing. Set grain aside for the bad times, and so on.
One interpretation of "turn the other cheek" is this, taken in the context of the social norms, beliefs and times (like you have to take many things, or should! Even Lincoln believed Black people could not be educated to the level of white people), anyway.........
To be right handed was the norm. The left hand was weak, almost a bad thing. You showed strength by using the correct (in those times) hand. So if you struck someone on the cheek, you used your right hand on their left cheek.
For the victim to stand upright and turn their right cheek was a challenge for the other person to use their left hand on you, a sign of weakness and something that wasn't done.
You didn't have to hit back, stab them or fight with might - you simply stood there and forced their hand, so to speak - ok, go ahead, let's see you do that again......... they would likely turn away rather than strike with their left hand.

At least that's what some scholars have suggested, based on the norms and beliefs of the times.

 

[Alpine Warthog]

True.

What do you mean, when you have the Book of Job, plagues...?

God's punishment is God's. Vengeance is the Lord's, right? Comparing God's punishment to a thief entering your house or a physical assault is a little bit more than apples vs oranges

 

[Crane]

You lose me at scripture on a jeep website. I'm just glad I don't share a cul-de-sac with a bunch of dudes walking around with ARs on the front lawn playing cod in rl. Have fun where you live, I'll just stay here this way I don't ruin your fun.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Funny thing - people think of a certain long weapon fire arm type and instantly think fully automatic and a crazy number of rounds in a second and in the clip.
My little critter pew-pew is also semi-automatic - but somehow the terms get all skewed and a certain pair of letters automatically means massive destruction, fully auto, lightening fast, unending number of rounds.

 

[Alpine Warthog]

One could really go in deep on that, but - there is free will......... humans have been abusing that since forever.

SOOOOOO TRUE. 99.99999% of everything that happens to us and others is the result of free will. People have a hard time with that. Why did God let this happen? Well, you see this thing about free will? Yeah, that covers everything. EvErYtHiNg. God doesn't protect us from the consequences of free will. Ours or some one else's.

Taken in the context of all 4 writers - He was always, in every act, story, parable, talking about being smart, using your head, thinking, planning, not sleeping, but preparing. Set grain aside for the bad times, and so on.
One interpretation of "turn the other cheek" is this, taken in the context of the social norms, beliefs and times (like you have to take many things, or should! Even Lincoln believed Black people could not be educated to the level of white people), anyway.........
To be right handed was the norm. The left hand was weak, almost a bad thing. You showed strength by using the correct (in those times) hand. So if you struck someone on the cheek, you used your right hand on their left cheek.
For the victim to stand upright and turn their right cheek was a challenge for the other person to use their left hand on you, a sign of weakness and something that wasn't done.
You didn't have to hit back, stab them or fight with might - you simply stood there and forced their hand, so to speak - ok, go ahead, let's see you do that again......... they would likely turn away rather than strike with their left hand.
At least that's what some scholars have suggested, based on the norms and beliefs of the times.

I've heard that as well. I have a hard time with it, (Maybe because I'm left handed myself) It does makes sense, especially with the still existing left-hand-is-dirty thing in the Middle East. However, I'm not sure it fits with the message being stated in that passage. It was in response to the eye-for-an-eye tradition of punishment. If they are offering the other cheek as challenge and an insult, it doesn't seem to fit the message of non-retaliation to me. While Jesus DID hurl insults at certain priests , calling them "vipers". The turn the cheek passage in Matthew doesn't fit with that.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

SOOOOOO TRUE. 99.99999% of everything that happens to us and others is the result of free will. People have a hard time with that. Why did God let this happen? Well, you see this thing about free will? Yeah, that covers everything. EvErYtHiNg. God doesn't protect us from the consequences of free will. Ours or some one else's.


I've heard that as well. I have a hard time with it, (Maybe because I'm left handed myself) It does makes sense, especially with the still existing left-hand-is-dirty thing in the Middle East. However, I'm not sure it fits with the message being stated in that passage. It was in response to the eye-for-an-eye tradition of punishment. If they are offering the other cheek as challenge and an insult, it doesn't seem to fit the message of non-retaliation to me. While Jesus DID hurl insults at certain priests , calling them "vipers". The turn the cheek passage in Matthew doesn't fit with that.

I am left handed, my first wife was left handed, my current wife is also (but then it's impossible to use her right hand due to birth defect) and my oldest son is left handed.

 

[Janster]

Funny thing - people think of a certain long weapon fire arm type and instantly think fully automatic and a crazy number of rounds in a second and in the clip.
My little critter pew-pew is also semi-automatic - but somehow the terms get all skewed and a certain pair of letters automatically means massive destruction, fully auto, lightening fast, unending number of rounds.

Unless you’re Jerry Miculek… with a semi…… that man‘s trigger finger is a machine!!! He could probably fire off faster than an automatic!!

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Unless you’re Jerry Miculek… with a semi…… that man‘s trigger finger is a machine!!! He could probably fire off faster than an automatic!!

At least you and some others know the difference.......... people think AR or semi, and believe you just stand there and point the thing with the trigger back.
Like you said - it can be done fast, but it's doubtful some moron shooting a crowd is that bloody good, and has nerves of steel at that time, to pull it off.
Me, I'm lucky that my finger moves when I command it to. As a late teenager, I could shoot the tip off a wooden match at some distance (I was trying to light the stupid things, didn't work, though - that would have been a great Myth Busters bit)

My father was a hunter - I've got pictures of him somewhere holding up fox and so on from the 1950s. That pretty much ended when he got married. Mom didn't want guns in the house, so they had to stay out in the garage, then it got to the point with trying to make a living and having a family, he gave it all up.
One thing that Mom did go for - if we were going to own or shoot or be around guns of any sort - even pellet guns - you take classes. And I did, and am thankful and I think that was incredibly smart of her.
Sadly, Dad wrapped his guns up, stashed them in the garage and not in clean, dry places. Over the decades, things rotted and rusted. I've got the parts - would LOVE to have someone "restore" just for display only. I don't really care if they can't shoot - likely a lot safer if they could never fire again, but they were his and from what I can tell, even from family before him.

 

[Teqsand]

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[imallcrawl]

So does anyone know if this guy was a member here? His JT was built so I'm sure he visited, unless he bought it built or had someone build it for him then I guess an online community like this would serve no benefit for him

On another note, the twists and turns of this thread is quite entertaining and educational. That's the beauty of the 1st amendment. Keep the conversation rolling

 

[Wheelin98TJ]

So does anyone know if this guy was a member here? His JT was built so I'm sure he visited, unless he bought it built or had someone build it for him then I guess an online community like this would serve no benefit for him

On another note, the twists and turns of this thread is quite entertaining and educational. That's the beauty of the 1st amendment. Keep the conversation rolling

Forums aren't nearly as popular as they used to be. Probably a better chance he's in one of the Facebook groups for Gladiators.

 

[imallcrawl]

Forums aren't nearly as popular as they used to be. Probably a better chance he's in one of the Facebook groups for Gladiators.

Very true. Unfortunately I don't have any social media and wouldn't be able to tell if he was or wasn't part of a group.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

His JT was built so I'm sure he visited, unless he bought it built or had someone build it for him then I guess an online community like this would serve no benefit for him

Most, even with "built" Jeeps won't be here. Thousands don't mess with forums or online stuff. I know of a few Wranglers and Gladiators around here that are not exactly stock, but if they do visit, they only lurk and read as visitors. (I'm fairly sure the JT with the angry grill isn't likely to post pics of his rig if he even comes here, and the Wrangler with eye lashes? My wife loved it, but I've never seen it on any forum.)

There's so much info out there, and the Jeep knowledge from the past translates nicely to the JT - even those who built up the WJ can use a lot of what they know with the JT.

This isn't the only place for information............ local clubs, shops, friends, whatever.

 

[imallcrawl]

In the real world most people show obvious signs that they are dangerous long before the stabbing, shooting, or even swinging starts...

In the late 90's while working in retail at a Gas company, I witness this guy fatally stab another guy multiple times right in front of me. According to police, if the guy wasn't stopped by my co-workers who were trained in situations like this, the victim's head would have came off. This led me and everyone else who witness this to believe the killer was dangerous long before this happened.

However, once information started to roll in from our customers, we all found out that the killer was the nicest person they've ever met and was apparently a war hero from the Vietnam war. According to those who knew both the killer and the victim, it was the victim that was the trouble-maker. Apparently he would steal metal and tools from other construction sites to sell it on the side. He was also super violent and abused his own mother. The killer apparently caught the victim stealing from his own yard and punched him and called the cops, yet the guy was never prosecuted. The killer died a few weeks later in prison of a brain tumor.

Does this make me feel the killer was normal and not dangerous? Not at all, but I'm just saying this because sometimes there are no obvious signs and can never tell when someone will snap and stab or shoot someone else.

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