Was the Driver a Member? [⚠️ Admin Warning: NO POLITICS]

[Janster]

What if your ambidextrous?

What if the knife holder is ambidextrous??

(Insert slap-stick John Wickish vibe) I can see it now…..Gun owner whips gun out (left handed) and knife holder (with minimal marbles in the noggin) stumbles with look of confusion of what to do. Gun owner throws gun back-n-forth between hands…..

Yea…We’ve been watching the John Wick movies here lately.

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[Lunentucker]

A reasonably fit man with a knife can close 21' and slit your throat in 1.5 seconds.

9.545452 mph, but we'll give it a quarter second for the slicing.
Still doable.

 

[WestwallNF104A]

well, share your receipts with the class then.

…and even today, you won’t see this story or any self-defense related stories - ’good guy with a gun’ on the news.

Sounds like a cut-n-dry self defense situation. Knowing it’s CA ….. I’m curious what his legal battles were afterwards.

Fortunately he lived in a region where the DA wasn't a leftist. Turns out the bad guys invaded his home because they thought he was a drug dealer.

He wasn't, just a mechanic, and a damned good one, but druggies aren't known for their smarts.

 

[WestwallNF104A]

What if your ambidextrous?

Won't matter, if you are carrying two guns the knife fighter will cut both. Depending on your orientation the knife can take both hands with the same cut, worse case scenario for the knife fighter is if he meets a true pistolero. In that case the knife fighter dies about 90% of the time.

But just your average pistol user is in real trouble if they are within 21 feet.

Now I'm only talking about true knife fighters. The average crazy person with a knife won't have that skill set for the most part.

However, NEVER get close to even them. Crazy people just attack relentlessly so if you get too close they can kill you before you realize it.

There was a case in LA a few decades ago where a detective helped take down a crazy dude with a knife.

They got the dude 'cuffed, but within a minute of them accomplishing that the detective collapsed due to blood loss. The bad guy had stabbed him in the side and cut a artery. Poor guy bled out internally before they even realized he had been stabbed.

Most people don't realize that they have been stabbed because it feels exactly like a hard punch. It takes time for the internal damage to take effect.

 

[Zachanadandy]

I’m aware it makes zero sense. Neither does the statement “bad people are bad all the time”. That was my point.

The inability for so many gun owners to realize that the “good guy with a gun” is usually who turned into the “bad guy with a gun” is why gun deaths and injuries will continue to rise in this country.

And yes, I’m aware that mass shooters do not fit this mold. They are a small fraction of the perpetrators.

The vast majority of crimes committed with firearms are committed with illegally obtained firearms. That was never a good guy with a gun. That fact goes in the face of your argument entirely. Yes there are the rare cases where good people snap and shoot each other. The idea that that's the norm is insane. Criminals illegally obtain firearms in order to commit more crimes. They were bad people when they set out to illegally obtain the gun in the 1st place. Your friends and neighbors that carry aren't just deciding one day to commit armed robberies, assaults, drive bys, rapes, or murders because they have a gun so why not.

 

[WestwallNF104A]

What if the knife holder is ambidextrous??

(Insert slap-stick John Wickish vibe) I can see it now…..Gun owner whips gun out (left handed) and knife holder (with minimal marbles in the noggin) stumbles with look of confusion of what to do. Gun owner throws gun back-n-forth between hands…..

Yea…We’ve been watching the John Wick movies here lately.

The gun usage in the Wick movies is actually pretty good. Some of the effects are silly, like how they presented the Dragons Breath ammo in the shotgun, that was hilarious. But the actual technique is pretty spot on.

 

[Janster]

The gun usage in the Wick movies is actually pretty good. Some of the effects are silly, like how they presented the Dragons Breath ammo in the shotgun, that was hilarious. But the actual technique is pretty spot on.

Agreed….about the technical aspects.

We’ve only watched 1-3 so far….. My husband has this uncanny craziness to count the bullets and sometimes he’ll say…”Must have an unlimited magazine”
And other times, reloading as expected… for the most part. But agree…. it was done well.

The things you focus on ……

 

[Janster]

But just your average pistol user is in real trouble if they are within 21 feet.

Now I'm only talking about true knife fighters. The average crazy person with a knife won't have that skill set for the most part.

However, NEVER get close to even them. Crazy people just attack relentlessly so if you get too close they can kill you before you realize it.

And to add to all that…...… There’s a high probability the ‘bad guy with a gun/knife’ is sooo high on drugs. If they are - that makes them even more dangerous. Their stamina, speed, mindset, physical abilities are increased beyond what a normal human being is capable of.

 

[Zachanadandy]

The whole knife vs gun thing is stupid though. Every "test" to prove the knife is quicker starts with the knife fighter with the knife out ready to go and the pistol holstered. That's like giving someone the hit drag racing. You have to be a much better/ quicker fighter to catch up from that kind of head start. Start with the knife and gun both holstered or start with the knife in hand and the gun at low ready. There goes the 21 foot rule and it's purely who's quicker. Obviously if the knife attacker is 5-10' away and you're the target your best bet is to catch the knife hand and go hands on. There's no 1 size fits all in fighting and every one is different. The 21' rule really only applies if the guy with the knife has already targeted you and made the decision to attack. If he's just a crazy with knife in hand yelling about whatever he's mad about you have time to draw a pistol.

 

[WestwallNF104A]

The whole knife vs gun thing is stupid though. Every "test" to prove the knife is quicker starts with the knife fighter with the knife out ready to go and the pistol holstered. That's like giving someone the hit drag racing. You have to be a much better/ quicker fighter to catch up from that kind of head start. Start with the knife and gun both holstered or start with the knife in hand and the gun at low ready. There goes the 21 foot rule and it's purely who's quicker. Obviously if the knife attacker is 5-10' away and you're the target your best bet is to catch the knife hand and go hands on. There's no 1 size fits all in fighting and every one is different. The 21' rule really only applies if the guy with the knife has already targeted you and made the decision to attack. If he's just a crazy with knife in hand yelling about whatever he's mad about you have time to draw a pistol.

Nope, the knife is drawn as the fighter closes the distance. If an average cop has his pistol drawn, and he allows a knife user within 10 feet he's in serious danger. Remember, just because you shoot someone doesn't mean they simply stop. That only happens in movies.

There are many cases where bad guys have been shot repeatedly and they keep fighting. Shot placement is everything in a life or death scenario.

 

[Zachanadandy]

Nope, the knife is drawn as the fighter closes the distance. If an average cop has his pistol drawn, and he allows a knife user within 10 feet he's in serious danger. Remember, just because you shoot someone doesn't mean they simply stop. That only happens in movies.

There are many cases where bad guys have been shot repeatedly and they keep fighting. Shot placement is everything in a life or death scenario.

The mythbusters testing referenced earlier the knife was out. Could a very proficient knife fighter draw and land an accurate strike from a full sprint? Sure. I doubt I'm going to run into a random professional knife fighter on the street. If we are worried about professional killers this is America they probably just use guns anyway. Like I said, random crazy, knife already out, and already charging you the 21' rule works. Random crazy waiving knife around and threatening anyone in the vicinity? If he's not focused directly on you, you could probably draw if he was within 10'. Once he sees the gun it's too late to react and charge before you fire. Just my opinion and observations from a whole bunch of real world encounter scenarios.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Nope, the knife is drawn as the fighter closes the distance. If an average cop has his pistol drawn, and he allows a knife user within 10 feet he's in serious danger. Remember, just because you shoot someone doesn't mean they simply stop. That only happens in movies.

There are many cases where bad guys have been shot repeatedly and they keep fighting. Shot placement is everything in a life or death scenario.

People get used to TV and movies and shots knocking people backward or instantly stopping them. Someone on an adrenalin rush would require a good kill shot to stop.

I don't understand the idea that all crazies are going to be going wildly mad, waving a knife or acting like they are obviously after someone - it's not always the case.

 

[Zachanadandy]

People get used to TV and movies and shots knocking people backward or instantly stopping them. Someone on an adrenalin rush would require a good kill shot to stop.

I don't understand the idea that all crazies are going to be going wildly mad, waving a knife or acting like they are obviously after someone - it's not always the case.

Of course it's not always the case, but it's not like you can be prepared for the random guy in line behind you at the grocery store just stabbing you in the neck unprovoked? In the real world most people show obvious signs that they are dangerous long before the stabbing, shooting, or even swinging starts. Those that don't are pretty well indefensible against anyway. Are we really trying to argue that we maintain a minimum 21' from everyone everywhere just in case?

 

[WestwallNF104A]

Of course it's not always the case, but it's not like you can be prepared for the random guy in line behind you at the grocery store just stabbing you in the neck unprovoked? In the real world most people show obvious signs that they are dangerous long before the stabbing, shooting, or even swinging starts. Those that don't are pretty well indefensible against anyway. Are we really trying to argue that we maintain a minimum 21' from everyone everywhere just in case?

If they have a knife, and are acting aggressively, you betcha.

You have no idea of the dudes skill level.

You willing to bet your life on it?

Not me.

 

[Zachanadandy]

If they have a knife, and are acting aggressively, you betcha.

You have no idea of the dudes skill level.

You willing to bet your life on it?

Not me.

I'm definitely not trying to get within 21' of anyone armed with anything acting aggressively. If you find yourself there on the other hand you gotta do what you gotta do. At that point your life has already been bet for you. At that point if you're not the target backing away and drawing is probably the move. I just don't like the one size fits all 21' rule. Is there a child closer to the knife wielding psycho than I am? My child? At that point I'm probably getting closer not moving away. It's good for people to be aware of just how much distance an attacker can cover quickly, just as it's good advice to not try to draw from the drop but sometimes you're left without a choice. Better to die fighting than watch your kid take a knife in the neck, unless you're some people in this thread. Then you should non-violently persuade the crazy not to hurt anyone.

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