Water fording depth - Update

[Mtpisgah]

Now that is a very important thing.. door seals are normally good for first few years, my 90 XJ seals only allowed it to "slowly" fill up do to lower pressure on inside vs water pushing in from outside at 10 plus years old.
...
If the water and mud is over a foot or so deep, I plan on leaving to someone else's vehicles vs my JT. Just because you can don't mean you have to. I have done fording with Hummers, M35 2 1/2 ton trucks, 5 tons, M113 and Bradley fighting vehicle. The after party to clean up.

Good to know the seals should be good for a few years. If they last for ten years I will be very happy. By then it will be a secondary car and I will not care as much.

I do not anticipate taking mine through deep water, but you never know what you may find on the trail and I figure forewarned is better than not asking.

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[PyrPatriot]

I think I could have made it.

 

[rr11]

Go for it, I'll hold your beer.

 

[PyrPatriot]

Go for it, I'll hold your beer.

And if someone else was there to video it, sure. The whole reason I didnt bother: nothing gained, I have crossed deep water before, so without some juice no need to squeeze

 

[PyrPatriot]

So in continuing my research into water fording, I had a thought regarding breather tubes.

The breather tubes are for venting gas pressure in the differentials, transfer case, and transmission. Focusing on the differential breathers: they are to ensure that when water hits a hot differential, and a subsequent vacuum is created from the temperature difference, that water is not sucked in past the differential cover and other oil seals. The breather tubes were historically, on Jeeps, valves that would open and close, but now are gore membranes that are essentially keeping water out. Quite thick, too. But, because they are already so high up, the temperature difference between differentials and water would be greatly lessened once the differentials are actually submerged: the greatest danger being during the initial dip.
The thought is: wouldn't there be no longer be a strong vacuum by the time you got to a fording depth anywhere near the atmosphere end of the tubes? It's not like you hit water suddenly from 0" to 30", you go into it slowly. Once you get to 30" depth, even if your breather's are submerged, you would not have a significant risk of sucking in water through them.
On the flip side, by extending your breather tubes you are increasing the distance air has to travel, the vacuum force through the tube is greatly diminished when you essentially double the length of tube, and thus you'd have a greater chance of sucking in water through the oil seals. You would need significantly wider tubing, not just longer, if you are extending the length

https://www.wranglerforum.com/threa...eathers-into-a-snorkel.2218625/#post-32479793

 

[Radio Guy]

My wifee managed insurance vehicle claims for 21 states and has dealt with a lot of water damage. Except for vehicles like raised trucks and SUVs where 30" of water will not reach the insides, probably 99% of all other vehicles that sit in 30" of water will be written off as a total loss. Insurance will not pay to repair all the soaked electronics, interior, etc, due to future liability. They would be married to the vehicle and all its future water related problems like intermittent electronics, mold, etc.

I suspect the fording specs for the Gladiator are for very short term passing through with doors on and sealed and not sitting in 30" where the interior is at the same water level.

 

[Trippin01]

So, using my basic math skills. A JT on a 4.5" lift, running 37" tires, would be good to the top of the tire.? no? That seems reasonable.

 

[PyrPatriot]

So, using my basic math skills. A JT on a 4.5" lift, running 37" tires, would be good to the top of the tire.? no? That seems reasonable.

Maybe. At the least probably close. My amateur rationale:
Minimum fording depth is 30". That is about the height if a fully inflated Sport oem tire.
A 37" tires is probably closer to 33-34" when deflated to off-roading pressure. This estimate is based on my 35s, which are specified to be very close to 35" by Falken, measure 33" when inflated to road conditions at 30psi, probably 30-31" when deflated to 20-25psi
33" is 3" higher than standard fording depth. Which is also how much higher the 37" tire is than the OEM tire with at oem inflation.

 

[Edub]

On my 06 LJR, the differential vents were raised as others have said. I live in Houston, where we have flooding a lot, and so I really focus on fording capacity. I found that the transfer case vent was just sitting on top of the bell housing, so I raised it and the transmission vent to the top of the firewall. It made no sense to me that they raised the differential vents and not the TC vent.

Living in Houston is exactly why I drive a lifted Jeep. For us it's not a matter of recreation, it's a necessity.

 

[Blade1668]

So in continuing my research into water fording, I had a thought regarding breather tubes.

The breather tubes are for venting gas pressure in the differentials, transfer case, and transmission. Focusing on the differential breathers: they are to ensure that when water hits a hot differential, and a subsequent vacuum is created from the temperature difference, that water is not sucked in past the differential cover and other oil seals. The breather tubes were historically, on Jeeps, valves that would open and close, but now are gore membranes that are essentially keeping water out. Quite thick, too. But, because they are already so high up, the temperature difference between differentials and water would be greatly lessened once the differentials are actually submerged: the greatest danger being during the initial dip.
The thought is: wouldn't there be no longer be a strong vacuum by the time you got to a fording depth anywhere near the atmosphere end of the tubes? It's not like you hit water suddenly from 0" to 30", you go into it slowly. Once you get to 30" depth, even if your breather's are submerged, you would not have a significant risk of sucking in water through them.
On the flip side, by extending your breather tubes you are increasing the distance air has to travel, the vacuum force through the tube is greatly diminished when you essentially double the length of tube, and thus you'd have a greater chance of sucking in water through the oil seals. You would need significantly wider tubing, not just longer, if you are extending the length

https://www.wranglerforum.com/threa...eathers-into-a-snorkel.2218625/#post-32479793

Something else to think on with axle vent the vent is in axle pumpkin (or one tube "older" Jeeps) so there is 3 different semi sealed areas, pumpkin and both axle tubes "rear axle" pumpkin is at x-temperature then hits water rapidly cooling helping to create a vacuum. I don't even know what to think about a automatic transmission, a manual transmission should be less problematic.
As you have touched on.
I'm just trying to give you some other things to ponder on.. a best case would be a vent on all three areas but not realistic to do. The bearing on the carrier don't seal off the tubes but allow gear oil to "slowly" travel in and out to end of axle. Now on the front axle CAD/FAD side.... The left side no matter the seal is at the pumpkin. No I'm not giving a answer, I don't have one, But a thinking point, other than might want to carry a few QT of gear oil and pan.

Living in Houston is exactly why I drive a lifted Jeep. For us it's not a matter of recreation, it's a necessity.

You not joking about that, I was just there about 2 weeks back visiting family. Interesting seeing sign that says when water is here on sign it's 7ft deep or so at low spot. at that depth I'd be only "Rolling" with a M35, 5 ton or LMTV in that. A thing to note on most military vehicle's is about every part that can have a grease fitting does and has a lube order for operating in all climate and weather.
So I'm guessing you don't keep a vehicle over 5 years then too? Due to rusting after exposure to (salty) water.

 

[PyrPatriot]

But a thinking point, other than might want to carry a few QT of gear oil and pan.

Yep, can stash a couple FlexFills and an air filter behind the driver side passenger seat. Throw a 10qt pan (the kind that can hold fluid not just open at the top) in the bed along with a couple 5qt jugs of oil and filter. Easy to keep in the JT if you're just wheeling.

 

[Edub]

You not joking about that, I was just there about 2 weeks back visiting family. Interesting seeing sign that says when water is here on sign it's 7ft deep or so at low spot. at that depth I'd be only "Rolling" with a M35, 5 ton or LMTV in that. A thing to note on most military vehicle's is about every part that can have a grease fitting does and has a lube order for operating in all climate and weather.
So I'm guessing you don't keep a vehicle over 5 years then too? Due to rusting after exposure to (salty) water.

When it floods it isn't salt water, just rain water. but to that point, not once have I ever driven down to Galveston and NOT washed the underside of my Jeep. As for rust, I don't think we see anymore then the rest of the country and far less then the areas that salt the roads for Ice. Most people try to avoid driving in the water. I do too unless I'm familiar with the street and i know exactly how deep it is.

Me driving through a Houston flood to pick up my wife at the hospital.

it gets interesting at 3:30
exhale sigh of relief at 5:15

 

[Blade1668]

When it floods it isn't salt water, just rain water. but to that point, not once have I ever driven down to Galveston and NOT washed the underside of my Jeep. As for rust, I don't think we see anymore then the rest of the country and far less then the areas that salt the roads for Ice. Most people try to avoid driving in the water. I do too unless I'm familiar with the street and i know exactly how deep it is.

Me driving through a Houston flood to pick up my wife at the hospital.

it gets interesting at 3:30
exhale sigh of relief at 5:15

Good video, I figured that some of the water would have mix of road scum and being from spray coming in from the Gulf that it would have a build up of salt.

Yep, can stash a couple FlexFills and an air filter behind the driver side passenger seat. Throw a 10qt pan (the kind that can hold fluid not just open at the top) in the bed along with a couple 5qt jugs of oil and filter. Easy to keep in the JT if you're just wheeling.

I have 3 of them drain pans for just the same thing I kept a 6 qt one in my XJ for same reason and gal. Gear oil in past. I'm going to need to check out the FlxFill I need to change my axles gear oil. I've normally just used a bottle pump, since I normally get a few gallon of it at a time.

 

[PyrPatriot]

Good video, I figured that some of the water would have mix of road scum and being from spray coming in from the Gulf that it would have a build up of salt.


I have 3 of them drain pans for just the same thing I kept a 6 qt one in my XJ for same reason and gal. Gear oil in past. I'm going to need to check out the FlxFill I need to change my axles gear oil. I've normally just used a bottle pump, since I normally get a few gallon of it at a time.

See my thread on gear oil weight choice. It is not as simple as you may think and I am having conflicting answers given to me from 2 different technical specialists at Jee who worked on the Gladiator.

FlexFill only comes in 2 weights

 

[DVC]

They fit really bad when the plug and the carpet oval was there, one of the mats wouldn't snap to the post. Once I pulled out the carpet oval and just left the plug in the floor the fit was better and I was able to engage both posts. You can also trim some of the funnel a bit so that it sits a little flatter but has the ability to insert into the hole if your only intent is to drain, not try to trust it to seal the floor. I didn't feel the need to trim it though, once I removed just the little carpet piece I was happy with the fit.

Definitely don't trust the "seal" from the OE rubber mat drain plugs! (Not really a seal at all; they just drop into the floor holes.) Best to leave the little rubber floor hole plugs directly in the floor, and only pull them to drain if water gets in some other way. I know the rubber mats don't sit flush this way, but trust me, water will come up through the floor very easily with the mat drain plugs through the floor.

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