What is Jeep doing? So lost at this point

[BourbonRunner]

That is very very true. I understand where Lost Woods is coming from, but choosing to pursue a lifestyle brand brings certain obligations to those people who seek that lifestyle.

Stellantis seems to be ignoring Jeeps core values.

No question they are- but they're also more or less negligent in how they've handled all the FCA brands except maybe Ram.

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[WestwallNF104A]

No question they are- but they're also more or less negligent in how they've handled all the FCA brands except maybe Ram.

I'm new to the brand. I've been a Ford and Toyota guy my whole life with one Dodge thrown in when I was young.

My one prior Jeep, that I still have, is a 1945 GPW, so still a Ford product!.

And I bought it as a wreck and have been restomodding it for about 4 years now. Getting close to being done.

All that being said, the Gladiator is a great mid sized truck. I go out in the desert a lot, and the narrow body helps me get in to places a Taco simply can't fit.

I am trying to make my mind up on the Ineos. Go for the basic, or go for their truck version.

I don't like doubling up on my fleet, so I will probably just go with the standard.

 

[Alpine Warthog]

That is very very true. I understand where Lost Woods is coming from, but choosing to pursue a lifestyle brand brings certain obligations to those people who seek that lifestyle.

Stellantis seems to be ignoring Jeeps core values.

At this point we're lucky they have kept the 7 slotted grill and foldable windshield. Stellantis must streamline their production and remain viable fiscally.
Stellantis' problem is they are chasing the wrong crowd with the Wranglers and JTs. They want
quiet, cushy, sleek and lots of tech. Jeeps can NOT be quiet or cushy with solid front axles and removable roof and doors. Make those quiet and they are too heavy to remove and will kill gas mileage. They can't really be sleek either. It's hard to call a brick, sleek.

Hopefully the new Recon can play that Range Rover Sport role and they can go back to making a reliable and capable dirt centric JEEPs with some small touches of refinement to keep the wives a little happier.

 

[BearFootSam]

Well I’d say what’s the ratio of manuals to autos across both platforms…..me guess is autos out sell manuals by a wide deep margin.
So…..maybe they are creating their own attrition with the V6, as in if’n you want an auto(which most likely would) only offer it married to the Polar Bear 5000. Kinda like make the V6 uninteresting. Manual transmission people are a minority. I guess why not just drop the V6 altogether??
Of course I posed a random question embedded in a thread as why there hasn’t ever been a turbo 4 slug option for the gladiator.

I'm guessing the nature of the 2.0T isn't well suited to manual shifting. If run fast, these little highly tuned engines suck gas commensurate with their output. Only working with six gears and a heavy truck, I suspect there are durability concerns letting drivers manually shift the 2.0, particularly if lugged.

For the record, it's sad to see an icon change but the JL/JT are still the realest options out there. Both represent the limits of what we can expect to get away with in many respects and I appreciate that. Jeesh, the JT is at least truer to the original mission than the new Tacoma.

 

[Steppe-runner]

No question they are- but they're also more or less negligent in how they've handled all the FCA brands except maybe Ram.

Idk man, saw a 60k mile 2 year old ram 1500 limited on Autotrader, and every bit of the leather on the dash had separated and bubbled. I mean, I haven't even seen that on the gmt800 Escalade platinums.

 

[BourbonRunner]

Idk man, saw a 60k mile 2 year old ram 1500 limited on Autotrader, and every bit of the leather on the dash had separated and bubbled. I mean, I haven't even seen that on the gmt800 Escalade platinums.

That's not entirely surprising, Texas sun will blow just about anything out. You should see all the dry rotted rubber on my Texas sold and tagged for 15 years BMW.

Point I was driving at is that even if Ram sales are down from last year, they're still sitting around some of the best sales numbers and reviews in from the Dodge era to now.

If I was in the market for a full size truck a 1500 RHO would be at the very top of my list, followed by the Sierra AT4X.

 

[Steppe-runner]

That's not entirely surprising, Texas sun will blow just about anything out. You should see all the dry rotted rubber on my Texas sold and tagged for 15 years BMW.

Point I was driving at is that even if Ram sales are down from last year, they're still sitting around some of the best sales numbers and reviews in from the Dodge era to now.

If I was in the market for a full size truck a 1500 RHO would be at the very top of my list, followed by the Sierra AT4X.

I'm west Texas born and raised, I'm well aware of what the sun can do, and what I saw on that dash I've never seen on a 2 year old vehicle. I'm not saying I don't like what rams offering, and powertrain wise I think they've got the best options across the board. But it's becoming reminiscent of second gen Cummins, fantastic powertrain with a truck that's going to need rebuilt every 100k.

 

[BourbonRunner]

I'm west Texas born and raised, I'm well aware of what the sun can do, and what I saw on that dash I've never seen on a 2 year old vehicle. I'm not saying I don't like what rams offering, and powertrain wise I think they've got the best options across the board. But it's becoming reminiscent of second gen Cummins, fantastic powertrain with a truck that's going to need rebuilt every 100k.

Right? It seems a bit risky to wrap a dash in a truck with leather, though. I don't think any amount of Xymol would have kept that from cracking and splitting in the Texas sun/heat.

Far as a Second Gen with a Cummins, you're right- the drivetrain was outstanding. It was everything around it that was utter shit. If you hit 100K miles before a frame off rebuild you're lucky!

I haven't thought about that in a while but... Nothing like hauling a loaded 25ft landscaping trailer down the highway and hitting an expansion joint on a bridge and it bucking like a bronco with death wobble across 3 lanes. My favorite was the day I pulled up on a job, shut it off, took out the key and the Cummins kept on chugging... I also think we did new brakes just about every time we changed the oil.

 

[LostWoods]

No, the trick to making money is providing a product people want.values.

I chose Ineos because they are a startup. So expect more drive train options in the future. Jeep has loads of experience with the hemi in the Wrangler. Why don't they use that experience?

This is just a naive understanding of the market dynamics, and, ignoring all the regulations that prevent them from offering what you describe, who is to say Jeep isn't providing what people want? You can't please everyone so I'll repeat it: the best way to make money is to cover the largest section of your potential market with as few options as possible. If you lose 5% of potential sales because you don't offer a manual but can keep the truck cheaper and increase sales for the 95% by reducing manufacturing overhead, they're doing exactly that.

Options add complexity and options add cost. The Wrangler 392 was a pathetic move of pure desperation to pull media from the Bronco launch and it won't ever be produced in large numbers because of the aforementioned government-mandated box. 12 mpg isn't acceptable anymore so as much as it's what some people want, Jeep isn't going to eat the hit to their CAFE score to do it.

That is very very true. I understand where Lost Woods is coming from, but choosing to pursue a lifestyle brand brings certain obligations to those people who seek that lifestyle.

Stellantis seems to be ignoring Jeeps core values.

Jeep lost its core values somewhere in the JK generation. They sold out rugged utilitarianism to appease the wider market and it's worked for them. They'll keep the easy stuff like the 7-slot but with the popularity of the Bronco, I wouldn't be shocked in the slightest if the next generation is IFS with no manual option.

 

[WestwallNF104A]

This is just a naive understanding of the market dynamics, and, ignoring all the regulations that prevent them from offering what you describe, who is to say Jeep isn't providing what people want? You can't please everyone so I'll repeat it: the best way to make money is to cover the largest section of your potential market with as few options as possible. If you lose 5% of potential sales because you don't offer a manual but can keep the truck cheaper and increase sales for the 95% by reducing manufacturing overhead, they're doing exactly that.

Options add complexity and options add cost. The Wrangler 392 was a pathetic move of pure desperation to pull media from the Bronco launch and it won't ever be produced in large numbers because of the aforementioned government-mandated box. 12 mpg isn't acceptable anymore so as much as it's what some people want, Jeep isn't going to eat the hit to their CAFE score to do it.



Jeep lost its core values somewhere in the JK generation. They sold out rugged utilitarianism to appease the wider market and it's worked for them. They'll keep the easy stuff like the 7-slot but with the popularity of the Bronco, I wouldn't be shocked in the slightest if the next generation is IFS with no manual option.

Naive? I'm not the one engineering a 35% drop in sales in a single year. Ineos seems to be able to offer lots of options.

Some of what you say is true as regards government regs, but the simple fact is the bean counters are screwing the company up. They are raising prices without increasing desirability.

That's a losing proposition, as we are seeing in real-time as their sales numbers plummet.

 

[Alpine Warthog]

Some of what you say is true as regards government regs, but the simple fact is the bean counters are screwing the company up. They are raising prices without increasing desirability.

Agreed.

They overestimated the value of the Wrangler name. The public was already paying more for name recognition and the niche market but they assumed the ceiling was higher than it really is. It's worth more than the parts but NOT THAT much more

 

[sharpsicle]

I guess to me, it makes sense to get rid of a problematic and limiting clutch system on a vehicle that is marketed for towing. I wouldn't be surprised if that has become more headache than it's worth. I know not everyone uses their JT that way, but truth be told that is how it's designed, and the MT has always fallen short in that regard.

JLs, on the other hand, don't suffer from that expectation, so the manual transmission is still viable there.

Just my initial thoughts on the situation.

 

[Jrgunn5150]

If you guy's are upset with the MCA Gladiator, you'll be really upset with the next gen lol.

 

[Empty Pockets]

The last 4 banger Jeep I had was an M38A1 mil-surp. The last V8 Jeep was a ‘73 CJ-5. Too little or too much. I’m probably in the minority here, but I like the V6. A lot…. And I only buy manuals for my primary driver. I’m hoping my V6/6 speed Gladiator lasts a long-ass time.

 

[Alpine Warthog]

The last 4 banger Jeep I had was an M38A1 mil-surp. The last V8 Jeep was a ‘73 CJ-5. Too little or too much. I’m probably in the minority here, but I like the V6. A lot…. And I only buy manuals for my primary driver. I’m hoping my V6/6 speed Gladiator lasts a long-ass time.

There's always buying a wrecked Wrangler and swapping...

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