What to buy Mojave or Rubicon?

[Phljeeper]

If the spring goes up 2” and the shock goes up 2” and the geometry is corrected, then there is no issue. Shocks arent “valved” for a ride height. They are valved to a spring weight and a stroke length. If you lift the springs without lifting the shock, then yes, youre out of spec.

ive also read more than once that “if you lift it and put a bumper youre out of the bypass zone”. This is also completely un proven. What is the bypass stroke zone of the shocks? Has anyone put one on a shock dyno to determine when the bypass zone is cleared? The answer is no.

the reality is i think a lot of people are looking for reasons to conjure imagined limitations to the mojave suspension that just arent there. My favorite is that because they were “designed for sand dunes” somehow means they wont cope with “forrest trails”. Its hilarious.

The reality is the shocks are the Mojave are really well engineered units and i think its going to perform really well with proper spacing lifts and geometry correction. Ill agree that if your plan is a big lift and big tires, then the mojave may or may not be the best spec depending on how you weight the other features.

I was not trying to spark a debate, was more trying to share that there is a Jeep for everyone and if you change your use case you can change your Jeep to match in most cases. The different models are each a potentially better starting point based on what you use them for. As for my perspective on the shocks, to my understanding they are designed to provide valving at different lengths based on the needs of how the truck was designed and if you lift the truck and extend the shocks then they will be at different lengths with tire extension and compression. If you add spacers on the stock coils then the impact may not be as great (if at all) but if you change the coils for taller coils (which is typically a better way to lift your Jeep if you drive it off-road) then the compression and extension will absolutely be different than stock resulting in the shocks not being used as designed. How much impact will that cause is debatable. But likely similar impact to using stock Fox shocks from a Rubicon with extensions rather than upgrading to longer shocks when lifting. By no means am I saying the Mojave isn't a great vehicle. I haven't driven one and I don't have the terrain to benefit in my area but it seems like an awesome truck for the use cases it was designed for. And also looks super cool with the new hood.

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[Nine Ball]

I wonder if any of that you experienced was an aluminum "older" steering box on the rubicon vs possibly a steel one on the mojave.

The Mojave doesn't come with a steel steering box. Same aluminum box as the Rubicon. It has steel steering knuckles, however. Those do help a bit with steering vagueness on the highway.

 

[KurtP]

I was not trying to spark a debate, was more trying to share that there is a Jeep for everyone and if you change your use case you can change your Jeep to match in most cases. The different models are each a potentially better starting point based on what you use them for. As for my perspective on the shocks, to my understanding they are designed to provide valving at different lengths based on the needs of how the truck was designed and if you lift the truck and extend the shocks then they will be at different lengths with tire extension and compression. If you add spacers on the stock coils then the impact may not be as great (if at all) but if you change the coils for taller coils (which is typically a better way to lift your Jeep if you drive it off-road) then the compression and extension will absolutely be different than stock resulting in the shocks not being used as designed. How much impact will that cause is debatable. But likely similar impact to using stock Fox shocks from a Rubicon with extensions rather than upgrading to longer shocks when lifting. By no means am I saying the Mojave isn't a great vehicle. I haven't driven one and I don't have the terrain to benefit in my area but it seems like an awesome truck for the use cases it was designed for. And also looks super cool with the new hood.

you arent wrong that changing springs may cause the valving to not be optimized Any longer. Thats a question that can only be answered by driving it or empirically tested on a shock dyno.

for what little my experience is worth, my guess is a mild spring weight increase will be fine, super heavy duty coils are a who knows.

my plan is a spacer lift with airbag helpers in the rear for when the truck is under heavy load. Aev bumper up front, may or may not do a lightweight winch. Hopefully by then someone will have shock dyno’d the mojave shocks and have more answers or fox be more willing to share data.

 

[mazeppa]

<SNIP>

Aev bumper up front

<SNIP>

AEV bumper still is not available after being introduced for the JL in 2018, it is my favorite aftermarket front bumper for the JT/JL.

In my subjective opinion, those orange HVAC dash rings on the Mojave are as hideous as the red rubicon dash.

 

[CMac]

.......with airbag helpers in the rear for when the truck is under heavy load.

Yup, going this route, too.

If I need to lift it, I'm gonna change fenders out, first. I really think 35's will do everything for me.

 

[KurtP]

AEV bumper still is not available after being introduced for the JL in 2018, it is my favorite aftermarket front bumper for the JT/JL.

In my subjective opinion, those orange HVAC dash rings on the Mojave are as hideous as the red rubicon dash.

good thing im not in a hurry and good thing you dont have to look at my dash.

win win.

 

[steffen707]

you arent wrong that changing springs may cause the valving to not be optimized Any longer. Thats a question that can only be answered by driving it or empirically tested on a shock dyno.

for what little my experience is worth, my guess is a mild spring weight increase will be fine, super heavy duty coils are a who knows.

my plan is a spacer lift with airbag helpers in the rear for when the truck is under heavy load. Aev bumper up front, may or may not do a lightweight winch. Hopefully by then someone will have shock dyno’d the mojave shocks and have more answers or fox be more willing to share data.

Yup, going this route, too.

If I need to lift it, I'm gonna change fenders out, first. I really think 35's will do everything for me.

please keep me posted when you find more info on the spacer lift with airbag helpers in the rear, sounds promising.

 

[mazeppa]

good thing im not in a hurry and good thing you dont have to look at my dash.

win win.

Doesn't matter one bit if I like your dash or not. The Mojave if a very desirable JT that you will enjoy.

 

[KurtP]

please keep me posted when you find more info on the spacer lift with airbag helpers in the rear, sounds promising.

the big question is how to relocate the hydraulic stops up front, and if it is necessary.

second is how to modify the front shock extensions and if thats really necessary.

inside coil airbags should be fine.

its also possible these shocks are built as such as they can be re-valved to accommodate spring rate increases

 

[Etoimos]

inside coil airbags should be fine.

Be mindful that inside coil airbags are known to get pinched and deflate when offroading. I had it happen to me in my JKUR. I can't recall what company it is, but someone out there is working on some Kevlar sleeves to help prevent this.

 

[Etoimos]

I'll also add that the lower gear ratio of the Rubicon can be a bonus for overlanding, not just for bashing rocks. I dragged my overlanding trailer to 11,000 feet on Imogene Pass here in CO with my JTR. I could not have done that in a Sport or Mojave with their taller gearing. The JT just does not have the power at that altitude for this type of climb without the super low gearing to help out. Even in 4Lo the Rubicon was barley making the climb. I did turn around at that point and made camp at a nice spot less than a hundred feet below where it got too tuff for the truck.

Rubicon gives me tools that when I need them, I need them.

I was very interested in the Mojave and might have bought one had they been on the lots when it was time for me to purchase. I'm sure I'll debate the Mojave vs Diesel vs Hemi in 5 years if I decide I want something different then the Rubicon.

I really wish Jeep would have used the Overland name for a version that was designed for actual overlanding though.

 

[KurtP]

I'll also add that the lower gear ratio of the Rubicon can be a bonus for overlanding, not just for bashing rocks. I dragged my overlanding trailer to 11,000 feet on Imogene Pass here in CO with my JTR. I could not have done that in a Sport or Mojave with their taller gearing. The JT just does not have the power at that altitude for this type of climb without the super low gearing to help out. Even in 4Lo the Rubicon was barley making the climb. I did turn around at that point and made camp at a nice spot less than a hundred feet below where it got too tuff for the truck.

Rubicon gives me tools that when I need them, I need them.

I was very interested in the Mojave and might have bought one had they been on the lots when it was time for me to purchase. I'm sure I'll debate the Mojave vs Diesel vs Hemi in 5 years if I decide I want something different then the Rubicon.

I really wish Jeep would have used the Overland name for a version that was designed for actual overlanding though.

how much does your trailer weigh and whats your final drive ratio?

if you didnt re-gear, why? You struggle for power on the trail but not on mountain road passes? having a hard time understanding that....

if i get to a point that somehow my low range isnt low enough, a rubi t case is a straight swap, but i cant imagine that being something that ill ever need for overlanding.

 

[Etoimos]

how much does your trailer weigh and whats your final drive ratio?

if you didnt re-gear, why? You struggle for power on the trail but not on mountain road passes? having a hard time understanding that....

if i get to a point that somehow my low range isnt low enough, a rubi t case is a straight swap, but i cant imagine that being something that ill ever need for overlanding.

Dry weight is 1700lbs and Max GVW is 3500lbs. I figure I was close to the max for that trip. I've got 4.10s and the eight speed auto, whatever the final drive ratio is on that... I don't know it off the top of my head.

I have not re-geared because for 98% of my driving I don't need it. The eight speed does really well on road, offroad and towing... just not at 11,000+ feet. I can't tell you if it will struggle on pavement at over 11k cause I've not taken it there... and can't imagine I'd ever tow on pavement at that altitude. There are only a handful of paved road in the US that high and most just go to a lookout and back down the same way you come in. In addition to that, on paved roads you are not trying to pull one or more tires out of deeper holes. It takes more power/gear offroad than it does on payment.

You might not ever need it for your overlanding adventures, but I already have so I pointed it out so other could take it into consideration.

 

[KurtP]

Dry weight is 1700lbs and Max GVW is 3500lbs. I figure I was close to the max for that trip. I've got 4.10s and the eight speed auto, whatever the final drive ratio is on that... I don't know it off the top of my head.

I have not re-geared because for 98% of my driving I don't need it. The eight speed does really well on road, offroad and towing... just not at 11,000+ feet. I can't tell you if it will struggle on pavement at over 11k cause I've not taken it there... and can't imagine I'd ever tow on pavement at that altitude. There are only a handful of paved road in the US that high and most just go to a lookout and back down the same way you come in. In addition to that, on paved roads you are not trying to pull one or more tires out of deeper holes. It takes more power/gear offroad than it does on payment.

You might not ever need it for your overlanding adventures, but I already have so I pointed it out so other could take it into consideration.

im not trying to be argumentative, but i dont think you would have had a single issue with my xfer case on that trip. 3500 trailer weight isnt that much.

it looks like you have wheels/tires etc, so you probably need to be at a 4.56 or 4.88 gearing for starters. Imogene pass can be done in a stock jeep, so you didnt need lift, tires, front locker, rear locker, or a sway disconnect. you dont even need 4wd for most of it.

 

[mazeppa]

Time for a 4-speed Atlas transfer case with the 2WD low option to solve all the needed gear ratios for the current terrain, now everybody will be happy with their transfer case gear ratio.

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