Omg Have You Checked Your Lower Ball Joint Nut

[Rusty PW]

Moral of the story - check your nuts.

They might be loose.

Does your wife have yours in her purse?

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[jac04]

Has anyone with cast iron knuckles (Mojave) found loose ball joint nuts, or is this just an issue with the aluminum knuckles?

 

[Lunentucker]

Has anyone with cast iron knuckles (Mojave) found loose ball joint nuts, or is this just an issue with the aluminum knuckles?

Mine is Mojave. They weren't loose, but they also weren't torqued fully to specs.
I'd say they were maybe 7-8 pounds light.

 

[Maximus Gladius]

Mine is Mojave. They weren't loose, but they also weren't torqued fully to specs.
I'd say they were maybe 7-8 pounds light.

I have the 21 JTR. I was getting some noise up front so I had to check the lower nuts. Wouldn’t you know it, both at 7 lbs.

I know there was a TSB mentioned to tighten them up around the 49-55 lb mark (forgive my laziness to hunt that down right now) I did find that TSB back in the summer and tightened those up. Steering tracked better and no more clunky noises.

Couldn’t the torque spec have been done right at the factory and the looseness we feel now is just wear?

I’ve been looking at the ball joint delete idea a lot. I think I’d try it after warranty is up.

 

[Lunentucker]

I have the 21 JTR. I was getting some noise up front so I had to check the lower nuts. Wouldn’t you know it, both at 7 lbs.

I know there was a TSB mentioned to tighten them up around the 49-55 lb mark (forgive my laziness to hunt that down right now) I did find that TSB back in the summer and tightened those up. Steering tracked better and no more clunky noises.

Couldn’t the torque spec have been done right at the factory and the looseness we feel now is just wear?

I’ve been looking at the ball joint delete idea a lot. I think I’d try it after warranty is up.

I watched that video last night and am very interested in doing the same.
I don't understand why Jeep doesn't go ahead and adopt that system in manufacturing.

On the other hand, sometimes I think Jeep engineers have a history in maritime transportation ?

 

[Erievon]

My wifes 21 JL both lower ball joints were loose, but for some reason my early 20 JT was not. I'm almost wondering if the dealer did it when they were replacing the steering box.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Couldn’t the torque spec have been done right at the factory and the looseness we feel now is just wear?

There's no wear possible there unless it was loose to begin with. That is a tapered joint. That means that as you tighten the nut it pulls the tapered ball joint stud into a tapered hole in the knuckle. It's an interference fit so the knuckle hole is slightly "stretched" over the stud as it's drawn in.
On OTHER vehicles, cars, for example, you can pull the cotter pin, remove the nut and the ball joint won't fall out. In fact, it takes a tapered "pickle fork" to wedge it out, or smacking the knuckle really hard on the side with a big hammer to cause the parts to separate.

I can't quickly find my boxes of spare suspension parts for my cars - and the control arms I have on a shelf have the ball joints removed from them for easier stacking and storage (not like the control arms on these trucks) but here's a "stock picture" of the tapered shaft almost all other vehicles use to secure ball joints to the knuckle.
The fact that these are not only not properly torqued, but sometimes loose, is perplexing as once tightened PROPERLY, you can remove the nut and the stud is held into the knuckle by the fact that the knuckle is sort of stretched around it, and it's a tapered joint!

Finally found a pic of where I was rebuilding the suspension on an Eagle - note the tapered shaft of the ball joint. Tapered joints like this are crazy strong.

For comparison, the lower ball joint nut for a 1970 AMC Javelin or AMX is - 45
I'd expect these Gladiators to be more.

The joint is effectively sealed from water - preventing rust. You won't see these rust together unless the tapered hole is worn or egged out from lack of torque, or running it loose.

Found a decent explanation -

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Does your wife have yours in her purse?

Naw, she doesn't carry a purse.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

BTW - the tapers are often standard, or were. About 7.5 degrees? Somewhere in there, and there were tapered reamers to put the correct taper back into parts like steering knuckles if they got worn from being run loose.
Actual repair of parts is a lost art, though - today, it's replace until we actually replace the correct part and the problem is then resolved.

 

[Blade1668]

Trust me, the Loctite is 150% redundant. It won't matter a lick. With the proper torque and a properly fitting cotter pin, it can't budge even a bit, and it won't. A correctly set joint like that has nothing to make it move.
I've worked with many hundreds of such parts on trucks bigger than these.
The problem with yours was that it was either not torqued properly to begin with - OR, there's a problem with the taper.
The problem is that the connections are misunderstood. Once the cotter pin is in, it can't move or come loose - not from the nut moving on the threads. That means there were other issues.

This nut - 250 pound/feet of torque, then the cotter pin. They hold up to 400-500 hp (sometimes more) drag racing. They don't come loose.

Hmmm AMC 20 there.

 

[@californiajeeping]

I watched that video last night and am very interested in doing the same.
I don't understand why Jeep doesn't go ahead and adopt that system in manufacturing.

On the other hand, sometimes I think Jeep engineers have a history in maritime transportation ?

They can seize and cause steering issues. The balljoints are plastic and even if they lose lubrication they typically dont seize up but get loose instead. Ball joint deletes like king pins are dependent on lubrication for long service life. A ball joint with plastic or soft material is not.

Anyone crawl under their car lately and hit all the grease points?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

They can seize and cause steering issues. The balljoints are plastic and even if they lose lubrication they typically dont seize up but get loose instead. Ball joint deletes like king pins are dependent on lubrication for long service life. A ball joint with plastic or soft material is not.

Anyone crawl under their car lately and hit all the grease points?

I've done my share of work on king pin suspension/steering systems. Pain in the butt and there's more to them installation and maintenance-wise. There's also bearings in there........

This is quite different - but there's 2 pivot points that need lube and then there's the bearing that takes a heck of a pounding. When they wear, the impact is instant. Ball joints are at least spring loaded and take time to get "loose" enough to be a problem.
There's also more to repair and maintenance on a traditional king pin.

Now @Blade1668 is gonna love this - these are the brakes off the front of my 73 Pierre Cardin Javelin mounted on the front of this old Ford. (my 73 is just too fast for drum brakes). This setup with the custom drop plates allowed the front of this Ford to be dropped, while maintaining the right scrub radius.

 

[ShastaJT6]

Found on the JL forum:

Ive been chasing a clicking noise from the front left FOREVER, I thought it was the metal inner fenders I installed rattling, went and looked.. castle nut is loosey goosey.. put that on the to-do list for the weekend..

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Found on the JL forum:

Ive been chasing a clicking noise from the front left FOREVER, I thought it was the metal inner fenders I installed rattling, went and looked.. castle nut is loosey goosey.. put that on the to-do list for the weekend..

If you or anyone else wants a printable version you can take to a dealer - here it is -

NOTE the torque mentioned is 59 pound/feet - to the next slot in the castellated nut.

 

[ericnewcom]

I haven’t had any noise but after seeing this thread it made me want to check. Mine is a 23 rubicon and it looks like all the front end components had multiple checks done.

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