JT Diesel Snorkel

[Zybane]

Ya I think I will pass on a snorkel if it's causing air volume issues for the EcoDiesel. My JTRD is getting 37's and a 3.5" lift which will lift the air intake almost 6 inches. Being in Colorado, I'm not going to be doing any crazy water crossings.

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[Wolf Island Diver]

I just called AEV because this situation is getting goofy and I wanted to hear something from AEV myself. Either it’s an issue and no one should buy one or they’re going to fix it and we can chill. I wanted to get a status from AEV myself. Patrick at AEV told me “Dave and the guys are working on it now” JLURD on the JL forum confirmed that spinning the ram air around mitigates it. Patrick agreed. He also told me the Sy-Klone or something similar will probably be the solution. The Sy-Klone was never tested on this engine prior to release which is why they didn’t recommend it. I thought it was a CFM issue but that’s still unknown/untested for AEV. He did tell me that they had problems with the Cy-Klone on the Ram. Maybe the 5 inch prefilter necked down with an adapter becomes the solution. It sounds like this requires more testing on their part which is what they are doing. Should they have tested more extensively before releasing it? Yes, but this isn’t untypical for most companies. My jimmies remain unrustled as I’m still a month out on receiving one from @Northridge4x4, and that may get delayed further if AEV tweaks the design. The early adopters need to get taken care of obviously.

Shout out to the JLWranger forum folks and especially here to @BlueScapegoat for the yoemans work, documenting the install and experimenting with solutions to this issue.

 

[@californiajeeping]

All these intake issues and my cheap KN has worked perfectly and came with a prefilter as the lid ?. But everyone trashed it saying they are junk yet aev afe a whatever acronym can’t get an intake that doesn’t throw a cel.

 

[Burghardphotography]

Just getting caught up here after being gone for a bit. Mine was delivered to my local outfitter on December 29th. I’ve been away and we haven’t had a chance to install it yet, should I hold off?

 

[BlueScapegoat]

All these intake issues and my cheap KN has worked perfectly and came with a prefilter as the lid ?. But everyone trashed it saying they are junk yet aev afe a whatever acronym can’t get an intake that doesn’t throw a cel.

Your K&N is a snorkel?

Didn't think so. The AFE doesn't throw a code either and I could just as easily throw a filter sock over it. Oh, and maybe the acronyms are important, since they're different products.



The problem with the snorkel is it results in a pressure differential issue between the crank case and the intake tube. There should be several different ways to fix it. My personal belief, that I'll hopefully be able to prove here in the coming days, is it all stems from a sort of flawed OEM design. Flowing more air shouldn't cause a pressure differential large enough to throw a code. The snorkel is very successful in that it's allowing more air to flow than stock, which isn't exactly what I would call a problem.

Regardless I wouldn't get all dramatic about this. But if you have a new unit sitting in your garage or on the way, and you'll only be happy with a fully plug-and-play no-issues product, then I'd hold off on cutting a hole in your hood for now.

::Edit:: to be clear, I just got back from a 600 mile drive with the snorkel installed, ram facing forward, code on the whole time. It's a CEL to warn you of a disconnected CCV, which is clearly false. There are no dangers or risks here, it's just a false code due to the metrics running outside their acceptable window to detect tampering with the CCV system. These engines are notoriously sensitive to it, people have been struggling with the code and catch cans for years. It's not really an "air flow issue" in the traditional sense. There's plenty of air.

 

[Vtur]

I think a larger size PCV valve and/or hose might works to lower the air pressure at the valve. Just a thought.

PCV requires vacuum to open, crankcase pressure alone won't open it. Under certain conditions, the snorkel ram air effect is causing unwanted pressure in the intake pipe, that's preventing the PCV from opening.

 

[BlueScapegoat]

I think a larger size PCV valve and/or hose might works to lower the air pressure at the valve. Just a thought.

PCV requires vacuum to open, crankcase pressure alone won't open it. Under certain conditions, the snorkel ram air effect is causing unwanted pressure in the intake pipe, that's preventing the PCV from opening.

I would go with that theory but I was under the impression there is no valve in this system, it's a closed CCV coming off a centrifugal air/oil separator? It's always "open." If there is indeed a valve in there then some of my planned CCV fixes are moot.

Otherwise, I believe the Sy-Klone prefilter is going to mitigate the whole issue by eliminating that ram affect. (Once again foiled by FedEx, AEV sent it via 2 day shipping and the estimated time en route is 5 days. Seems the Michigan to Minnesota route is a real doozy)

Of course the ultimate fix is venting the CCV to atmosphere and dealing with the issue on the PCM end ?

 

[22EcoDs]

Just vent it to atmosphere and spoof the vacuum signal by sucking on the tube while you drive. ?? Problem solved.

 

[Vtur]

I would go with that theory but I was under the impression there is no valve in this system, it's a closed CCV coming off a centrifugal air/oil separator? It's always "open." If there is indeed a valve in there then some of my planned CCV fixes are moot.

Otherwise, I believe the Sy-Klone prefilter is going to mitigate the whole issue by eliminating that ram affect. (Once again foiled by FedEx, AEV sent it via 2 day shipping and the estimated time en route is 5 days. Seems the Michigan to Minnesota route is a real doozy)

Of course the ultimate fix is venting the CCV to atmosphere and dealing with the issue on the PCM end ?

Let's hope it won't throw another code for restricted vacuum with the prefilter ?

 

[@californiajeeping]

Your K&N is a snorkel?

Didn't think so. The AFE doesn't throw a code either and I could just as easily throw a filter sock over it. Oh, and maybe the acronyms are important, since they're different products.



The problem with the snorkel is it results in a pressure differential issue between the crank case and the intake tube. There should be several different ways to fix it. My personal belief, that I'll hopefully be able to prove here in the coming days, is it all stems from a sort of flawed OEM design. Flowing more air shouldn't cause a pressure differential large enough to throw a code. The snorkel is very successful in that it's allowing more air to flow than stock, which isn't exactly what I would call a problem.

Regardless I wouldn't get all dramatic about this. But if you have a new unit sitting in your garage or on the way, and you'll only be happy with a fully plug-and-play no-issues product, then I'd hold off on cutting a hole in your hood for now.

::Edit:: to be clear, I just got back from a 600 mile drive with the snorkel installed, ram facing forward, code on the whole time. It's a CEL to warn you of a disconnected CCV, which is clearly false. There are no dangers or risks here, it's just a false code due to the metrics running outside their acceptable window to detect tampering with the CCV system. These engines are notoriously sensitive to it, people have been struggling with the code and catch cans for years. It's not really an "air flow issue" in the traditional sense. There's plenty of air.

There are dangers. If you have a cel it will not regen.

your snorkel is the least of your problems if you hit water at the airbox line. The ecu connector fuse box etc is not water proof in these.
A snorkel serves no purpose on these Jeeps. Common failure is the Tipm since the JK series. They don’t submarine well at all.
My 2020 had issues with the wheel speed sensors and Tipm after going through a mud hole that was only 24-30” deep.

The factory intake and the KN intake both throw no codes. It’s due to the ecu sensing ccv for emissions. One solution is to extend the ccv tube closer to the turbo inlet which draws more vaccum on the sensor.
Your snorkel may be creating a positive pressure pre turbo and lowering the vaccum in the intake thus lowering the vaccum on the pcv/ccv.

common problem ecu tuning can resolve.

 

[BlueScapegoat]

There are dangers. If you have a cel it will not regen.

your snorkel is the least of your problems if you hit water at the airbox line. The ecu connector fuse box etc is not water proof in these.
A snorkel serves no purpose on these Jeeps. Common failure is the Tipm since the JK series. They don’t submarine well at all.
My 2020 had issues with the wheel speed sensors and Tipm after going through a mud hole that was only 24-30” deep.

The factory intake and the KN intake both throw no codes. It’s due to the ecu sensing ccv for emissions. One solution is to extend the ccv tube closer to the turbo inlet which draws more vaccum on the sensor.
Your snorkel may be creating a positive pressure pre turbo and lowering the vaccum in the intake thus lowering the vaccum on the pcv/ccv.

common problem ecu tuning can resolve.

Didn't know about the CEL affecting regen. Good to know.

As for the rest of it... yup. (except for the serving no purpose, but you do you)

 

[krweatherl]

I don't want this thread to just become me screwing around with the snorkel and intake combos, but my CCV CEL came back after clearing everything and ensuring it was all connected up properly. I did discover that I was missing a piece with the AFE intake I had overlooked during installation because it was missing from the packaging and I chalked it up to outdated instructions. So while I'm waiting to hear from AFE I temporarily swapped back to the factory intake. I've got a 600 mile drive coming up this week and I want to be absolutely sure that the source of the code isn't the snorkel itself before I go on with swapping the AFE intake back on and ultimately the 9001R prefilter.

By any chance was the missing piece for the AFE intake the “Crank Case Vent Insert”. If so I’d be curious if once installed correctly it corrects the pressure sensing?

 

[BlueScapegoat]

By any chance was the missing piece for the AFE intake the “Crank Case Vent Insert”. If so I’d be curious if once installed correctly it corrects the pressure sensing?

Sure is. It's on the way. I'll test the CCV insert with the ram facing forward to see if that makes it happy, separate from the Sy-Klone filter. This is a possibility I mentioned to AEV on the phone. I won't know if I'll be able to make it work with the factory intake or not but I might be able to fab something up. If it makes it happy with the AFE intake and the forward facing ram, then it might be a simple fix and something AEV could bundle with the snorkel. Theoretically. Again, not affiliated with AEV in any way, but they're going to have to change something.

 

[BlueScapegoat]

Stock intake setup with OEM panel filter and ram scoop pointed backwards, drove about 100 miles including some highway driving. No codes.

Sy-Klone 9001R prefilter with stock OEM intake and panel filter with 8000 miles on it. Only drove about 85 miles so far, including some at highway speed, no codes. Verified with scanner. OAT 0-25°f

I also don't recommend trying to take off the AEV supplied ram scoop band clamp when it's 20° out. It'll just shatter.

 

[22EcoDs]

Stock intake setup with OEM panel filter and ram scoop pointed backwards, drove about 100 miles including some highway driving. No codes.

Sy-Klone 9001R prefilter with stock OEM intake and panel filter with 8000 miles on it. Only drove about 85 miles so far, including some at highway speed, no codes. Verified with scanner. OAT 0-25°f

I also don't recommend trying to take off the AEV supplied ram scoop band clamp when it's 20° out. It'll just shatter.

This looks sweet. No clearance issues ?

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