WHOA! Portal Axles for Gladiator look awesome

[jn18]

Portal axle package for the GWagon are 80k or just over if I’m not mistaken. They come stock on the new 4x4 squared of course.

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[Dust]

Mopar sold these 10-12 years ago. $6 or 8k an axel. Was looking to swap them on my 08 rubie JK and do a AEV two door conversion. Drivability seemed poor as DD and the conversion was $30k. Good thing I held out HaHa (I’ll settle for the regular Dana 44’s). Though 2” of lift is nice out of the box.

 

[Dim]

beautiful product for sure...
must be super cool to be super rich
35K for the Hemi + 25K for the portal axle etc etc ...
but at the end of the day you got an incredible rig ...
well done

 

[NERokToy]

1.20ish reduction I think is a pretty good start, but Dynatrac' 1.5 isn't going to fly for anything daily driven except for a seriously underpowered gas rig.

1. Dynatrac housings can run spicer gears, throw some 3.54's in and you are good to go (and you can get actual spicer gears!)

2. The VAST majority of people who are going to spend a minimum $30-40k on an axle swap have more then one vehicle, or at least the financial means to acquire something better suited for daily driver use.

Just to make a set of portal axles safe for the road on your Jeep you will want to upgrade all of your control arms, track bars, and all steering linkage. Plus you are going to need new wheels and will at least want to upgrade shocks to control all of that weight.

To make a set of portals work offroad is going to take even more money. You will want to reinforce or replace all factory suspension mounts, if using factory axles you need weld on trusses, and you will need custom shock mounts so you aren't limiting wheel travel. That is the bare minimum

The couple people comparing portal axles to a Hemi swap get it: this is not a practical vehicle modification, it is a niche product for individuals with large amounts of disposable income. This is even more true for the bolt on kit for factory axles, its a cool feature but not practical on or offroad. If you look at the DS Trac or Dynatrac portal axles they have a brace from the portal box to the axle tube with Dana 60 full float axle ends on the rear and king pin or medium duty truck balljoints on the front. I can not imagine the factory semi float rear and balljoints that already fail on factory Gladiators to deal with all the added stress on or offroad. I'm not saying if I won the Powerball I wouldn't be building a gladiator with a set of 74 weld portals and lifting the drivetrain to get allow flat belly and ability to lower the ride height while gaining some suspension travel

 

[TheBrudwich]

1. Dynatrac housings can run spicer gears, throw some 3.54's in and you are good to go (and you can get actual spicer gears!)

2. The VAST majority of people who are going to spend a minimum $30-40k on an axle swap have more then one vehicle, or at least the financial means to acquire something better suited for daily driver use.

Just to make a set of portal axles safe for the road on your Jeep you will want to upgrade all of your control arms, track bars, and all steering linkage. Plus you are going to need new wheels and will at least want to upgrade shocks to control all of that weight.

To make a set of portals work offroad is going to take even more money. You will want to reinforce or replace all factory suspension mounts, if using factory axles you need weld on trusses, and you will need custom shock mounts so you aren't limiting wheel travel. That is the bare minimum

The couple people comparing portal axles to a Hemi swap get it: this is not a practical vehicle modification, it is a niche product for individuals with large amounts of disposable income. This is even more true for the bolt on kit for factory axles, its a cool feature but not practical on or offroad. If you look at the DS Trac or Dynatrac portal axles they have a brace from the portal box to the axle tube with Dana 60 full float axle ends on the rear and king pin or medium duty truck balljoints on the front. I can not imagine the factory semi float rear and balljoints that already fail on factory Gladiators to deal with all the added stress on or offroad. I'm not saying if I won the Powerball I wouldn't be building a gladiator with a set of 74 weld portals and lifting the drivetrain to get allow flat belly and ability to lower the ride height while gaining some suspension travel

Why spend time writing this out without taking the time to go on 74weld's site and read about the product? A lot of misinfo here.

 

[NERokToy]

A lot of misinfo here.

Correct me where I am wrong then, I'm here to learn and share information just like everyone else.

Directly from Weld 74:

Question: Are my factory ball joints strong enough for portals? Answer: As with any big tire application, upgraded ball joints are recommended for increased longevity

Question: Is my stock front axle housing strong enough for portals? Answer: As with any big tire application, the factory front axle housing tubes are a weak point

Weld points out weak links, what they leave out is adding portals is not like any other big tire application, it is adding significantly more stress! If the portals reduce load on inner axle shafts and other upstream drivetrain components by a factor equal to the gear ratio that also means the load on the axle housing, control arms, and control arm mounts is INCREASED by that factor, plus the lever arm added by moving the centerline of the wheel. That is just torque!

Looking at lateral loads in an overly simple manner: If you ran these portals and 37" tires that would be the equivalent of 45" tall tires and 2.25 wheel spacers (comparing 17x9 wheels, zero offset without portals and 1.5" offset with portals as recommended by 74Weld). This does not take into account the verticle offset, which will add further stress

If someone wants to draw up the vectors and do the math I bet my simple calculations are conservative

 

[CrazyCooter]

With the forces involved, I could see the rear axle control arm mounts possibly being the first victim due to the lack of spread.

I've seen control arm mounts torn on UD 60 axles when the lower control arm mount was raised for high clearance and this was behind a 3.8L!

 

[TheBrudwich]

Correct me where I am wrong then, I'm here to learn and share information just like everyone else.

Directly from Weld 74:

Question: Are my factory ball joints strong enough for portals? Answer: As with any big tire application, upgraded ball joints are recommended for increased longevity

Question: Is my stock front axle housing strong enough for portals? Answer: As with any big tire application, the factory front axle housing tubes are a weak point

Weld points out weak links, what they leave out is adding portals is not like any other big tire application, it is adding significantly more stress! If the portals reduce load on inner axle shafts and other upstream drivetrain components by a factor equal to the gear ratio that also means the load on the axle housing, control arms, and control arm mounts is INCREASED by that factor, plus the lever arm added by moving the centerline of the wheel. That is just torque!

Looking at lateral loads in an overly simple manner: If you ran these portals and 37" tires that would be the equivalent of 45" tall tires and 2.25 wheel spacers (comparing 17x9 wheels, zero offset without portals and 1.5" offset with portals as recommended by 74Weld). This does not take into account the verticle offset, which will add further stress

If someone wants to draw up the vectors and do the math I bet my simple calculations are conservative

Perhaps just keep reading rather than cite where you think that you are right. ?

 

[3VOLVE]

Possibly a less expensive option.

. https://werewolftech.com/en/catalog/portal-axles/portals-for-jeep/portal-axles-for-jeep-wrangler-jl

 

[Rusty PW]

Possibly a less expensive option.

. https://werewolftech.com/en/catalog/portal-axles/portals-for-jeep/portal-axles-for-jeep-wrangler-jl

Don't think you would be getting these anytime soon. As they are located in Ukraine. You would have to wait until the war is over, and hope their shop is still standing.

 

[NERokToy]

Perhaps just keep reading rather than cite where you think that you are right. ?

I'm still trying to figure out what information from 74weld I am supposed to be reading that is in disagreement with anything I have said?

instead of being cryptic how about you point out what "misinformation" I have provided? One of the principles of productive discussions is all parties being able to speak freely, that isn't happening here as you seem to be afraid to share the knowledge you have acquired that would deem anything I said as misinformation. If you didn't have anything to add to the conversation thats fine, but then why did you insert yourself into it only to not add anything of any value?

 

[TheBrudwich]

I'm still trying to figure out what information from 74weld I am supposed to be reading that is in disagreement with anything I have said?

instead of being cryptic how about you point out what "misinformation" I have provided? One of the principles of productive discussions is all parties being able to speak freely, that isn't happening here as you seem to be afraid to share the knowledge you have acquired that would deem anything I said as misinformation. If you didn't have anything to add to the conversation thats fine, but then why did you insert yourself into it only to not add anything of any value?

Ok. Best of luck.

 

[NERokToy]

Ok. Best of luck.

Cool, confirms what I suspected. You had nothing to add to the conversation but wanted to put someone else down to make yourself feel better.

The information I have provided is clearly not misinformation as you have strong opinions on what I said, yet are unable to provide any information to contradict my information. Thanks for supporting my view points, you at least added a little value to the thread by doing so.

Best of luck, and I'll be around if you have any info to add that can add to the converation.

 

[Ark]

One additional thing to consider with portal axles is wheel backspacing. Since the width of the portal boxes moves the tire out, away from the axle steering pivot point by several inches, you end up needing to run wheels with some pretty serious backspacing to get the tire back so it's center is near the middle of the scrub-radius. I'm just a web wheeler here so far as portals are concerned so take this with a grain of salt. From what I've read road driveability can really suffer and the truck can get really "darty" if there isn't enough backspacing. Essentially any little ridge in the road can grab the outside edge of the tire and will pull it one way or the other.

I will say, I'm a little disappointed that 74weld didn't include a CTIS option. CTIS definitely has reliability concerns but airing up while driving just seems so cool

 

[ParatusExpeditions]

Just for comparison, 74Weld says theirs are 1:1.22 reduction

DSTrac axles say "Portal Gear reduction 1:1.20"

I'm seeing GWagen kits that are 1.16:1

Really curious if anyone finds those to be streetable

Adding WerewolfTech at 1.36:1. But, math is math, I don't understand people saying it wouldn't, given the proper gearing is already present before installation. I'm on 3.73, with 37", 1:1.20 is totally reasonable for me to run with the weight that I have back there (also on the diesel). Another thing I've heard that would make it slightly annoying is that the straight gears would mean the truck can rock back and forth in parking mode.

Not doing it now for pricing reasons: to do things right as others pointed out, it's not just 20k or so for the portal, but more like 30-35k. The second reason is because of bellow:

I will say, I'm a little disappointed that 74weld didn't include a CTIS option. CTIS definitely has reliability concerns but airing up while driving just seems so cool

100%; I've asked Quinn about this (74Welds), pointing out that's a big missed opportunity. To which he replied something along the line that having air in it would be terrible for the reliability or something. So maybe I was unclear, or their engineering dept didn't know about CTIS?
I asked a second time a few weeks after and they said maybe in the future, so I guess they know now.

Feels like a full axle set would be best anyways, as I would never bolt this on my DANA 44s and current my payload. Too bad DSTrack also isn't CTIS compatible. The only ones at the moment that are bolt-on and CTIS-ready are the Werewolf. I reached out to them as well not so long ago and said they were in full production. Pretty busy with the war as they prep vehicles for the field there, but can take orders *last time I checked*.

EDIT: For what it is worth, I've asked both 74Weld and Werewolf about those highway fears everyone has and they said that this is not a thing. Both over-engineer their gears, Werewolf has videos where they open 2y old portals that were driven in all kind of conditions and the gear are fine. 74Welds are younger but they say they also do a lot of highway without issues, I would take this with a grain of salt compared to the 2y of Werewolf and the fact that they have multiple vehicles running them (Yotas, Defender, Wranglers etc IIRC).

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