A new hope ... (build journal and component reviews)

[cug]

You will take a pretty good hit on fuel mileage with a wedge camper.

I'm curious, what are you averaging when traveling? And maybe just a hint at your typical speeds.

Understood about the ATs, not sure I want to go that route, although it's totally possible. At his point, I plain don't know yet. I'm not about to throw away a set of perfectly good tires for nothing. And I like the MTs for the simple reason that they are incredibly strong.

Love the looks of your rig! Nice setup!

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[NotSo Bright White]

The biggest hit is with a head wind and it drops to 19-20 mpg. Tail wind as high as 26 mpg. Daily average 22-23 mpg. I drive like I am closer to 60 than 50. Retired and not in a hurry. I have come to realize every time you hit either pedal, it cost money that I would rather spend on Jeep parts! And with the exception of a trip to SLC to get my shell, a trip to Tucson to get a Goose Gear seat delete, and trip to Park City to get away, I only drive it to the beach once a week.

 

[cug]

Sounds about right. We are averaging about 22mpg in daily city (mostly city) driving, up to 27 or 28mpg on longer stretches. So far, we only have about 500 miles on the clock, so it's hard to say for sure. But I like these averages.

The 4Runner sat at an all time average of 17mpg, that's with us generally going sloooow. Down to 11mpg when heading into strong wind or going a lot of uphill with the trailer, best ever was 21mpg. It's probably less the engine, but the transmission. That thing plain doesn't know what it's doing. I get about the same fuel consumption OVERALL with a Land Cruiser 79 with a wedge camper installed, but with manual transmission. And the camper is installed on the LC much more than we were pulling the trailer with the 4Runner. I absolutely hated that five speed automatic.

 

[NotSo Bright White]

And you should get better mileage once it is broke in. I am also pushing 37” BFG’ KO2’s so that doesn’t help either! That Forerunner looks awesome!

 

[cug]

That Forerunner looks awesome!

That's the Land Cruiser 79 with the 4L V6 engine and manual transmission. It's still a thirsty engine, but due to the more efficient transmission it's about the same with the camper attached as the 4Runner all by itself without towing.

This is the 4Runner:

 

[Camaroboi13]

You’ll likely see a little better fuel economy once the engine loosens up a bit. Bone stock I was 28-29 average all day with the occasional 31-33 on hour plus trips. Now I hover around 21.5-22.5 on a 4.5” lift and 37s.

As for the rockblock things or whatever they’re called, a good set of side steps will allow you to at least throw those ugly front ones in the trash can. My factory overland steps did a great job of keeping the mud off the doors. Didn’t help much for the rear though.

 

[Chocolyle]

Sounds about right. We are averaging about 22mpg in daily city (mostly city) driving, up to 27 or 28mpg on longer stretches. So far, we only have about 500 miles on the clock, so it's hard to say for sure. But I like these averages.

The 4Runner sat at an all time average of 17mpg, that's with us generally going sloooow. Down to 11mpg when heading into strong wind or going a lot of uphill with the trailer, best ever was 21mpg. It's probably less the engine, but the transmission. That thing plain doesn't know what it's doing. I get about the same fuel consumption OVERALL with a Land Cruiser 79 with a wedge camper installed, but with manual transmission. And the camper is installed on the LC much more than we were pulling the trailer with the 4Runner. I absolutely hated that five speed automatic.

Thanks.

I absolutely love the LC 70 series! I did a serious inquiry on importing a J79 12HT to replace my FJ60 before I went with the JTR. Couldn't make the numbers work for what I wanted. Thus, the only other solid front & rear axle with manual option in the US is the JT and I am VERY happy with it.

 

[GrubbyBaja]

@Chocolyle

...A bit weird, since the drain plug just sticks up, I really need to take a look underneath to understand this a bit better.

The dealer probably forgot to remove the carpet cut-out. Remove the carpet cut-out, remove the existing rubber plug in the floor, push floor mat drain down such that it snaps into floor, install removable plug into floor mat. Mine was the same way when I picked it up from the dealer.

 

[HooliganActual]

• Suspension
  • Not clear yet, we'll get closer to final weight and then figure it out

I'm sure you already have ideas about suspension and this forum will undoubtedly have as many suggestions as there are available suspensions to suggest; but I'd offer a bit of sage advice that was offered to me...once you know the weight that you need to suspend.

At the point in my build where I knew what my weight was going to be, I sat down with a local shop that builds desert race trucks (trucks not Jeeps) for events like the Baja 1000 and Mint 400. I've built many Jeeps and mean no disrespect to any of the "Jeep" upfitters that are out there but most of them are just "processing" the standard kits that show up in there ordering system. Not once in 40 years of offroading and building rigs had a shop made this recommendation...

This outfit actually took the weight I was carrying and set about custom ordering springs that were made for that weight. Your bio says you are in California and that's where Deaver Spring is also located (in Santa Ana):
https://deaverspring.com/

I was pleased that this option was even brought to the table and, while not a free option, it was only a $600 upcharge to the suspension I had installed and I have been extremely pleased with the ride and carrying capability for the 2 years it has been installed.

For comparison, I went from this:

To this (with slightly bigger tires and lift):

But the bottom line is, I don't squat under the load and don't bottom out my suspension on the trail.

Food for thought. Cheers!

 

[smlobx]

A lot of great information on the thread. Thanks to the OP for starting it.
My set up is somewhat similar but I have the gas engine and since I already had a RTT just got the Alu-Cab canopy and outfitted the interior with water storage, second battery, fridge and a custom drawer set up.

As far as tires go I will be using the original Falken AT tires until they need to be replace later this year but will go to a 285/75R17 E rated tire that is just a bit taller (34”) but will also be lighter so hopefully it will be a net benefit. Those Falkens are very heavy! Of course tire choice is a highly personal thing but I have never felt that MT’s were necessary and that includes overlanding in Africa and South America. But that’s just me.

Here’s the obligatory picture of us on the WRT last year.

 

[cug]

As for the rockblock things or whatever they’re called, a good set of side steps will allow you to at least throw those ugly front ones in the trash can.

Yeah, we'll have to see about this, it would actually be nice to have something to step on when getting to items on the roof. I'm planning to put a set of Maxtrax in front of the camper box on a set of load bars. Will have to wait until the box is mounted to see whether this fits properly, but I think it might. Getting them on/off without something a bit more solid to step on would be a pain. Might as well then look for something that also protects the sides from mud a bit better.

The dealer probably forgot to remove the carpet cut-out. Remove the carpet cut-out, remove the existing rubber plug in the floor, push floor mat drain down such that it snaps into floor, install removable plug into floor mat. Mine was the same way when I picked it up from the dealer.

That's probably it, I have not looked at this super closer, but will do so one of these days when I find the time.

This outfit actually took the weight I was carrying and set about custom ordering springs that were made for that weight.

That is one hundred percent what I'm planning on doing. I'll probably have a poor handling "low rider" for a while when the box is mounted and we figure out internal layout and final weight numbers, but then I'm planning on getting appropriate suspension components for that weight. There are some highly rated, but actually rather shitty shops here in the area (don't ask me how I know ...) that only care that something looks "manly" and has the largest lift and biggest tires one can possibly fit to show off at the mall crawl events here. I couldn't care less for these types of "improvements".

My plan is to get a full suspension setup that is appropriate for the weight and has a reasonably amount of lift, just to improve break over and departure angle a bit. I'm also not planning on fussing around with airbags or such since I'm not in a position to vary the weight by all that much because the box will be solidly mounted and sealed. Therefore, longer shocks with adjustable damping and stronger springs are an absolute must. There is no way around that and it's already accounted for in the budget.

I have good experience talking to the folks at Dobinsons, they do have a lift kit with higher rated springs, and there's also a person here on the forum (tagging @CrazyCooter) who has already set up a rig for someone here in the area who's very happy with the handling now.

For myself, I'm thinking of non-electronic, but well adjustable shocks, as well as proper springs, preferably from someone who knows what they are doing.

A lot of great information on the thread. Thanks to the OP for starting it.

Thanks to all those who commented so far – I'm learning quite a few new things about the Jeeps here as well. My main knowledge is with Toyotas, the Land Cruiser 79 we have set up is near perfect for us. The only downside is that it's a gasoline engine, not a diesel.

As far as tires go I will be using the original Falken AT tires until they need to be replace later this year but will go to a 285/75R17 E rated tire that is just a bit taller (34”) but will also be lighter so hopefully it will be a net benefit.

I hear you. I was also planning on using up the Mud Terrain tires, although, if I change the whole suspension setup and a good deal or idea comes around at the same time, I might change tires as well and sell the by then barely used Wildpeak MT.

When I compare the specs on the various tires that I've been considering so far:

• Falken Wildpeak MT in 285/70R17 C: 61.3 lbs
• Falken Wildpeak MT in 285/70R17 E: 63.3lbs (there is no MT in 285/75)
• Falken Wildpeak AT3W in 285/70R17 E: 58.9 lbs
• Falken Wildpeak AT3W in 285/75R17 E: 65.5 lbs
• Falken Wildpeak RT in 285/70R17 E: 64.9 lbs
• Falken Wildpeak RT in 285/75R17 E: 65.8 lbs
• BFGoodrich KO2 in 285/70R17 E: 58.2 lbs
• BFGoodrich KO2 in 285/75R17 E: 61.3 lbs
• Maxxis Razr MT in 285/70R17 E: 64.6 lbs

So, overall, there is something to be gained, but it's less than expected. 2.5lbs if I stick to Falken and switch from MT to AT; just a little more if I switch to KO2, I can do weight neutral with slightly higher KO2, which might be interesting. I really think that will be a spur of the moment decision when I also know how well the C rated tires handle the full weight. Probably okay on road, and not as good when aired down. The C rated Wildpeak is 6 ply, so definitely not as strong as I'd hope, so no matter what I'd do, with an E rated tire I get some more strength and puncture resistance.

Just writing this up here has me trend towards switching to a KO2 in 285/75R17, meaning a slightly, taller, but not heavier tire that very likely also rolls a little bit less noisy. Decision upcoming in July when the box is on and we can continue with the build. We'll be in Europe for two months until then. That'll give me some more time with the KO2 as well since they are on the Land Cruiser. Although sticking to the MTs might have some merit as well, given that our plans involve a lot of "roads" that will be very muddy at the time we're traveling them.

 

[smlobx]

Yeah, we'll have to see about this, it would actually be nice to have something to step on when getting to items on the roof. I'm planning to put a set of Maxtrax in front of the camper box on a set of load bars. Will have to wait until the box is mounted to see whether this fits properly, but I think it might. Getting them on/off without something a bit more solid to step on would be a pain. Might as well then look for something that also protects the sides from mud a bit better.



That's probably it, I have not looked at this super closer, but will do so one of these days when I find the time.



That is one hundred percent what I'm planning on doing. I'll probably have a poor handling "low rider" for a while when the box is mounted and we figure out internal layout and final weight numbers, but then I'm planning on getting appropriate suspension components for that weight. There are some highly rated, but actually rather shitty shops here in the area (don't ask me how I know ...) that only care that something looks "manly" and has the largest lift and biggest tires one can possibly fit to show off at the mall crawl events here. I couldn't care less for these types of "improvements".

My plan is to get a full suspension setup that is appropriate for the weight and has a reasonably amount of lift, just to improve break over and departure angle a bit. I'm also not planning on fussing around with airbags or such since I'm not in a position to vary the weight by all that much because the box will be solidly mounted and sealed. Therefore, longer shocks with adjustable damping and stronger springs are an absolute must. There is no way around that and it's already accounted for in the budget.

I have good experience talking to the folks at Dobinsons, they do have a lift kit with higher rated springs, and there's also a person here on the forum (tagging @CrazyCooter) who has already set up a rig for someone here in the area who's very happy with the handling now.

For myself, I'm thinking of non-electronic, but well adjustable shocks, as well as proper springs, preferably from someone who knows what they are doing.



Thanks to all those who commented so far – I'm learning quite a few new things about the Jeeps here as well. My main knowledge is with Toyotas, the Land Cruiser 79 we have set up is near perfect for us. The only downside is that it's a gasoline engine, not a diesel.



I hear you. I was also planning on using up the Mud Terrain tires, although, if I change the whole suspension setup and a good deal or idea comes around at the same time, I might change tires as well and sell the by then barely used Wildpeak MT.

When I compare the specs on the various tires that I've been considering so far:

• Falken Wildpeak MT in 285/70R17 C: 61.3 lbs
• Falken Wildpeak MT in 285/70R17 E: 63.3lbs (there is no MT in 285/75)
• Falken Wildpeak AT3W in 285/70R17 E: 58.9 lbs
• Falken Wildpeak AT3W in 285/75R17 E: 65.5 lbs
• BFGoodrich KO2 in 285/70R17 E: 58.2 lbs
• BFGoodrich KO2 in 285/75R17 E: 61.3 lbs
• Maxxis Razr MT in 285/70R17 E: 64.6 lbs

So, overall, there is something to be gained, but it's less than expected. 2.5lbs if I stick to Falken and switch from MT to AT; just a little more if I switch to KO2, I can do weight neutral with slightly higher KO2, which might be interesting. I really think that will be a spur of the moment decision when I also know how well the C rated tires handle the full weight. Probably okay on road, and not as good when aired down. The C rated Wildpeak is 6 ply, so definitely not as strong as I'd hope, so no matter what I'd do, with an E rated tire I get some more strength and puncture resistance.

Just writing this up here has me trend towards switching to a KO2 in 285/75R17, meaning a slightly, taller, but not heavier tire that very likely also rolls a little bit less noisy. Decision upcoming in July when the box is on and we can continue with the build. We'll be in Europe for two months until then. That'll give me some more time with the KO2 as well since they are on the Land Cruiser. Although sticking to the MTs might have some merit as well, given that our plans involve a lot of "roads" that will be very muddy at the time we're traveling them.

I’m curious where you got your tire weights from. According to TireRack the OEM FALKEN AT’s weight 63# each… and the 285/75R17 KO2’s weigh 61#‘s each.

Like you, I’m very familiar with the 79 Series but in my case they were diesels. Truth be told if I could have bought one of those I would have but it’s not really possible given that they can’t be brought into epa compliance and crash test approval. Those trucks can carry a bunch and are very reliable plus they’re super easy to repair if needed.

Here’s a couple of pictures; one from Botswana and the other from Namibia

 

[cug]

I’m curious where you got your tire weights from. According to TireRack the OEM FALKEN AT’s weight 63# each… and the 285/75R17 KO2’s weigh 61#‘s each.

From the horse's mouth, meaning the manufacturers websites. I've seen lots of errors on Discount Tire's website, so I tend to go to the source now. Again, it's just quoted numbers from websites, and there can be mistakes, on their end as well as on mine.

The reason why our LC79 is not a diesel is that you can still get the V6 EURO6 certified, but there is no way to do that for the current diesels. I would have gotten a V8 diesel in a heartbeat if I could actually buy it.

We are living a split life about 2/3s in the US and 1/3 in Europe and we like to travel in Europe as well as Africa as well, that's where the Land Cruiser comes in.

 

[HooliganActual]

...just to improve break over and departure angle a bit

This is spot on! It's a truck and way different than other overlanding rigs. Here is a picture of our first outing to test everything out. I am literally pinned on my receiver hitch and required winching out.

I knew I was squatting pretty bad but figured I needed to understand the limits of the stock suspension...and I found it. LOL

 

[cug]

LOL. I probably would have built a small ramp with Maxtrax boards, but this is also a situation where I might have gotten stuck ...

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