Official EcoDiesel Oil and Filter Recommendations

[Dougstdig]

The Amsoil AFL is not recommended due to the lack of MS-12991 cert correct? I understand it meets and/ or exceeds the performance required of FCA.

If it does, I’d like to know the certification so I can review and keep it for verification/support if needed. Otherwise I’ll continue to use euro-Penn

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[CrazyCooter]

If it does, I’d like to know the certification so I can review and keep it for verification/support if needed. Otherwise I’ll continue to use euro-Penn

I remember Amsoil EFM was on the 1st page list at one time when I bought my truck, but now it's gone. Nowhere on the bottle does it say meets or exceeds the "made up" MS-12991 requirement. Tech support says that's an old outdated spec and that EFM exceeds that outdated standard? That won't help us at warranty time.......

Tough for me as a dealer wanting the est for myself and my clients to be installing Penz in my own equipment?

 

[Motopilot0311]

If it does, I’d like to know the certification so I can review and keep it for verification/support if needed. Otherwise I’ll continue to use euro-Penn

From the JL forum:
https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/amsoil.66044/page-2

and from Oildepot.ca:
https://www.oildepot.ca/motor-oil-fca-ms12991-ram-jeep-gen3-ecodiesel-engine/

Specifically concerning the AFL variety of Amsoil 5w-40
https://www.oildepot.ca/products/am...-full-saps-formula-5w-40-synthetic-motor-oil/

TL:DR: Amsoil exceeds MS-12991 and therefore cannot list it on the label as meeting it as it does not exactly meet the criteria. I would wager that FCA would deny a warranty claim because they couldn't be bothered to research if Amsoil exceeded the standard and its not listed on the label. However, the two last pages say a label change is coming... Essentially that's it in a nutshell.

 

[Hootbro]

That won't help us at warranty time.......

Warranty time for what exactly?

 

[Motopilot0311]

Warranty time for what exactly?

I think he means in the event of an engine failure or other warranty claim related to the engine, if Dealer/ FCA determines the owner used oil that wasn't MS-12991 certified then they will deny the claim and you will pay out of pocket.

 

[Almost]

If it meets the API SN or SP requirements, it's good to use per the 2022 owners manual. I posted this 7 pages ago. Link below to owners manual. The MS rating means nothing and is just away to push consumers to use Pennzoil (or Shell products) as that is who Mopar has a contract with. Mopar clearly states the requirements for non-OEM parts in your owners manual (link below). Recommendations DO NOT EQUAL requirements.

Gladiator 22_JT_OM_EN_USC (mopar.com)

Oil:
Page 342: American Petroleum Institute (API) Approved Engine Oil These symbols mean that the oil has been certified by the API. The manufacturer only recommends API trademark oils

Page does not differentiate between gas and diesel. Only directs you to page 397 for specs. See below.

Page 397: We recommend using Mopar® API Certified SAE 5W-40 Full Synthetic Engine Oil which meets the requirements of the manufacturer Material Standard MS-12991 and API SN or SP capable. Equivalent full synthetic SAE 5W-40 engine oil can be used but must have the API Donut trademark -> page 342.

Oil Filter (Page 398): We recommend using a Mopar® Engine Oil Filter. If a Mopar® Engine Oil Filter is unavailable only use filters that meet or exceed SAE/USCAR-36 Filter Performance Requirements.

This thread is getting to be nauseating. There are two groups of oil. Mopar recommended which meets both MS and API specs and then equivalent which is any API SP or SN rated oil.

 

[CrazyCooter]

So were circling back to this again.......See the pattern?

MM act technically protects us legally, BUT it does not force anyone to perform the warranty repair even if the consumer is in the right/protected. If you have the time and resources to wait for a court date, pay an attorney, hire a 3rd party to test your oil proving it meets/exceeds the spec, win the court case, and then force the warrantying entity to hold up their end of the contract......I suppose you could put whatever product you want in there.

Nowhere does the Amsoil label have MS-12991 printed on it anywhere........ There is zero wording that says meets, exceeds, or otherwise use where MS-12991 is required. Does anyone else think this is strange? Surely they would have run out of "outdated" labels in the past few years?

So by owner's manual printing, it would seem like one "Could" (under your own "possible/probable" self assumed risk) run Amsoil EFM in a 2020-2021 model, but with the wording change 2022-2023 models could not without jeopardizing warranty?

Don't get me wrong.....I wholly believe in the product, but find it irritating that we have to question all of this to start with!

As an Amsoil dealer and auto repair provider I'm only installing Amsoil motor oil products that have the API donut on the bottle in client vehicles that have remaining factory warranty. Unfortunatly this limits me to using their lesser quality/protection products.

 

[biodiesel]

The Amsoil AFL is not recommended due to the lack of MS-12991 cert correct? I understand it meets and/ or exceeds the performance required of FCA.

Correct. The AFL is not recommended, but it is the best 5W-40 oil that we've tested for the EcoDiesel.

 

[biodiesel]

Don't get me wrong.....I wholly believe in the product, but find it irritating that we have to question all of this to start with!

When the Gen 3 engine was first released, FCA first recommended Rotella T6, which was printed in the manuals. Then they changed the spec and recommended Pennzoil Platinum. Honestly, I don't think FCA even knows what the spec should be for the engine.

GDE runs Rotella T6 in their Gen 3 EcoDiesel. He was told by FCA insiders that Rotella T6 was fine. As a matter of fact, we have one EcoDiesel owner who put 100,000 miles on his gen 3 engine running T6.

I don't want to mislead anyone here, but some of the best oils we've seen (for lowest wear numbers) are good 5W-30 oils. Amsoil AFL is the best 5W-40 oil that we've seen.

The point I'm trying to make is that Amsoil is only following FCA's guidelines, and those guidelines are only as good as the recommendation. I fairly confident that we (consumers) are doing more real-world oil testing than FCA ever did on the gen 3 engine.

I understand why some people want to follow FCA's recommendation for warranty purposes. I don't fault them for doing so. The rest of us nerds are more interested in following the data.

 

[Dougstdig]

Tough for me as a dealer wanting the est for myself and my clients to be installing Penz in my own equipment?

Well, at least you still have gear oil and tranny fluid for the Tcase.

 

[biodiesel]

Well, at least you still have gear oil and tranny fluid for the Tcase.

I run Amsoil in the 8 speed ZF transmission, too.

 

[CrazyCooter]

I run Amsoil in the 8 speed ZF transmission, too.

No way in hell will I do that after what @Maximus Gladius went through! If I do a filter/fluid change as preventitive before this thing hits the dumpster, I'll buy the OE green fluid and filter cash at retail so there is no local record of me buying and NOT document it.

 

[Maximus Gladius]

I run Amsoil in the 8 speed ZF transmission, too.

Don’t believe AMSOIL’s data sheet showing compliance codes for your ZF transmission. It’s a false document with zero permission from ZF to run their ATF in that transmission. As sure as I’m telling you, AMSOIL also knows the same. I got stuck with the stress of getting my transmission replaced. No help from AMSOIL for destroying my warranty.

 

[Sank]

~7500 mi on oil, 15k mi on engine, using Penzoil Euro.

Planning to continue on 7500 intervals and on Penzoil Euro 5W-40. You oil experts can tell me what I'm looking for, but "seems fine" to my untrained eye. Thanks to @biodiesel for the encouragement to try it out.

Oil Analyzers:

Blackstone:

 

[CrazyCooter]

~7500 mi on oil, 15k mi on engine, using Penzoil Euro.

Planning to continue on 7500 intervals and on Penzoil Euro 5W-40. You oil experts can tell me what I'm looking for, but "seems fine" to my untrained eye. Thanks to @biodiesel for the encouragement to try it out.

Oil Analyzers:

Blackstone:

That doesn't look bad either, but the viscosity is sheared down and ready to change. Crazy how the TBN varies so much between your sample and @NCJL. How long has your oil been in the engine (Time)? I would expect your wear metals to be slightly higher that his since he is running a bypass filter to pull more of the small particles out.

Even though my Amsoil numbers look bettwr at 10k miles, You guys might be swaying me over to the Penz and cutting my OCI to 7500 miles just for warranty security?

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