Gladiator sales down 22% in 4Q, 29% overall in 2023

[Hootbro]

I literally found a rubicon with a sticker of 43k today! I said I can put 10k down if need be and the payment was $900 a month with 11% interest lmaoooooo and we wonder why the sales are down? I wish I could just write the check for 43k but I can’t ……this is exactly why sales are down …..the lease was 8,000 down 700 month! This is on a 43k car! My credit score was 750

what does it matter if the sticker is 43k…..those were payments for cars welll over a 100k years ago

my sports s in 2020 the sticker was 48k and I put 2k down and paid 470 a month. How does this make sense now

Not a lease expert but I suspect when you bought your 2020, the projected end of lease residual value was higher vs leasing one today with probably a project end of lease residual of lesser value.

The dealership is making you eat that with a higher lease payment this time around.

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[Mflowers11]

It is 100% the interest rates!

Couldn’t disagree more. If it was the interest rates it would be industry wide.

 

[Yellow1098]

I’m pretty sure either dealers or certain manufactures can run specials on interest rates…….I believe jeep dealers have control over the interest rates of there cars and that’s the plan and stragedy with the discounts….. that’s why certain makes have special 0% financing here and there…..0 is never the national government rate so how do they offer 0? Also I called a Mazda GMC dealer about sierras and the dealer told me they have 0% right now on mazdas….if they don’t have control of it how could they do that?

maybe I don’t know how it works but educate me

 

[Mflowers11]

To be fair, the Colorado and Canyon numbers are dismal due to GM's abysmal launch on the new model and production pains. It did not help that 4K new units were on the factory lot earlier this year when a severe hail storm came through and those had to be reconditioned before delivery.

2023 Ford Ranger was a shit show also due to supply constraints and shut down for the new redesign 2024 model.

2023 Jeep Gladiator is just good old fashion overproduction for actual demand that was less.

Correct. Having just extensively shopped trucks and traded in my JT, there were almost no discounts on Colorados/Canyons and dealer markups on a Colorado ZR2s! For the same MSRP I got a full size with a V8 loaded Silverado Trail Boss. The exact opposite case we are talking about here. Anyone saying it’s interest rates hasn’t been looking at the actual market.

 

[Mflowers11]

I’m pretty sure either dealers or certain manufactures can run specials on interest rates…….I believe jeep dealers have control over the interest rates of there cars and that’s the plan and stragedy with the discounts….. that’s why certain makes have special 0% financing here and there…..0 is never the national government rate so how do they offer 0? Also I called a Mazda GMC dealer about sierras and the dealer told me they have 0% right now on mazdas….if they don’t have control of it how could they do that?

maybe I don’t know how it works but educate me

They are paying the interest for you…. Manufacture incentive pricing and often it’s only a 3 year deal which many can’t afford on a 50-60k purchase. Beyond that you’re still paying market rates. Get em in, emotionally lock them into the car and stretch the payments out as far as the bank will go.

 

[Mflowers11]

….if they don’t have control of it how could they do that?

maybe I don’t know how it works but educate me

That’s why there is often and either or offer. Take the incentive interest rate, discount or cash back. Generally they all cost the manufacture a similar gross amount.

 

[Hootbro]

I’m pretty sure either dealers or certain manufactures can run specials on interest rates…….I believe jeep dealers have control over the interest rates of there cars and that’s the plan and stragedy with the discounts….. that’s why certain makes have special 0% financing here and there…..0 is never the national government rate so how do they offer 0? Also I called a Mazda GMC dealer about sierras and the dealer told me they have 0% right now on mazdas….if they don’t have control of it how could they do that?

maybe I don’t know how it works but educate me

Most of the major automakers have their own finance arm that can offer the 0% or near zero rates. They are not tied in like other lenders who are financial banking institutions who lend in other areas besides automobiles.

The dealership have at their disposal relationships with a plethora of lending institutions who are tied to national interests rates + points tied to the Fed. When a dealership gets you lined up with a loan from a lending institution, they have what is called the "buy rate" that is the actual number the lender is giving the loan out for. Dealership can add on points to these loans above the "buy rate" to pad extra percentages that the bank will get by your increased loan payment but with a kickback to the dealer. That is why you have to ask to see the "buy rate" sheet the lenders sends to the dealership to see what points they may be adding on above the buy rate.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I have read similar elsewhere as it relates to what GenZ, for example, is wanting. As truck buyers age out, the younger generations aren't so enamored by the "truck". Cars by Nissan, Kia, Toyota and so on are more favored. The next generations are going to turn the auto market on its ears, and trucks won't be tops on their list.
So, maybe what we are seeing, since there was a shakeup at the top of the list where trucks normally are, is that they are falling out of favor, and the niche or specialized trucks will be among the first to suffer as the young tell us what they REALLY want to buy.

 

[Mflowers11]

To simplify it, they are basically paying the interest for you via their financing subsidiaries…. Manufacture incentive pricing often is limited to shorter terms, a 3 year deal for example which many can’t afford anyway on a 50-60k purchase. Beyond that you’re often paying the higher market rates or getting closer the farther you go out.

Get’m in for a test drive, emotionally lock them into the car and stretch the payments out as far as the bank will go.

 

[Redfour5]

The JT and JL have become way overpriced. Trade in values are horrible. Interest rates are insane.

One reason I didn't buy was because of how overpriced I thought they were. But I found a dealer matching the stellantis 15% off, got 7 k equity on my 2018 Renegade trade. A Freedom checked every box except aux switches so I pulled the trigger. Right now, they are more than competitive.

Just throwing this out there: I'd estimate that I see 100 non-Jeep midsize trucks for every JT I see. Most people want a pickup truck, not a Jeep, and the JT is a Jeep Wrangler with a pickup bed. Ford, Chevy, Toyota all offer trucks with big payloads and towing capacity now and better engine options than the JT. There's nothing special about the numbers. Demand for JT is less than demand for new Colorados and Canyons that can be had for a lot less than the cost of a JT and are very arguably much better trucks to live with day to day. Personally, and selfishly, I don't care if jeep stops making a JT. The cost of old Jeep pickups has gone way up and if less JTs on the road make my truck more valuable, then hell ya.

I’m pretty sure either dealers or certain manufactures can run specials on interest rates…….I believe jeep dealers have control over the interest rates of there cars and that’s the plan and stragedy with the discounts….. that’s why certain makes have special 0% financing here and there…..0 is never the national government rate so how do they offer 0? Also I called a Mazda GMC dealer about sierras and the dealer told me they have 0% right now on mazdas….if they don’t have control of it how could they do that?

maybe I don’t know how it works but educate me

The lowest rates are "subsidized" by the manufacturers through their financial arms like Chrysler Capital. The larger corporate entity takes the hit on the amount of money they get, but it is not concentrated within a given production arm, like Jeep, or Ram or Dodge, of the larger corporate entity in effect.
Essentially, to get people to buy because they recognize the barrier caused by high rates, that could be a deciding factor for many but getting low rates for long terms is the problem. So, you get a low rate for 36 months, you still can't afford the monthly payments for many people. Like with Stellantis, you can get a low rate even for 72 months but you cannot get the low rate of like 5.9 AND the 15% off MSRP incentive together. If they get really desperate, you might see 15% off as an incentive and a 5.9 for 72 months. Starting Aprilish, this is a possibility if they aren't moving things...

There are national credit unions out there like Penn Fed who have 84 months at 7.19 and Navy Federal with a 5.24 for 72, but your credit has to be stellar for those rates. Local credit unions will usually be the next lowest and occasionally you can stumble upon a deal on rates but nowhere close to the 3's of 2020-early 2022. Banks, can't compete and don't seem to want to, in general...

So, they spread around the pain within "Stellantis" proper, but the huge incentives whether 15% off or 5.9% for 72 months do have the advantage of prodding sales. And so, even in the middle of horrible yearly sales, they can say... "

• Jeep® brand fourth-quarter U.S. sales increased 7% over the same period last year

But its only because they were so bad in the first place, because they can't got over the simple fact that Gladiator sales are down 29% over last year and it wasn't great. Cherokees are done as a model as are Renegades. Renegade sales are way up, but its disappearing as a model also and sales are up only because they had massive quantities of them sitting on lots often for a year or more. I traded in a 2018 Renegade though for my Gladiator and still got like 13K for it, 40K miles. They actually are decent cars especially for Montana as they have a real 4WD system and my dealer sells more than any other in the country I believe. And you get a lot for your money. You get safety features lane departure and the 8.4 inch UConnect standard and in December, they were as low as 22K for that on a 30K plus MSRP. AND they are pushing Gladiators even harder.

I believe that Stellantis hasn't pushed their own mid sized RAM pick up is because of the Gladiator to a degree. They know that a Ram mid sized along the lines of Maverics and Colorado's with eat further into the Gladiator market that sucks for air. The Gladiator was very successful at first and so, there was a bit of sitting on their laurels but the price in the face of competition at half to two thirds the price undercut the initial success. But Jeep put a lot of resources into the Gladiator and so are at the point of either fishing (big changes in 2025) or cutting bait. I'd actually bet on cutting bait to be honest. At some point its not worth it and once a new mid size Ram hits the market, that just might do it for the gladiator and in 20 years, they will be like scramblers a seemingly good idea at the time that just didn't pan out but if you got one in good shape worth some bucks. Of course fossil fuel vehicles will likely be museum pieces by then.

I have never seen a car company have a model of a car that customers could NOT order during the model year. Think about that. That is not gung ho support for a model now is it? And for 2024, after all they hype, the only real change is the big screen and UConnect 5...and having that on my Ram 2500, I was GLAD to have the old 8.4 inch screen and UConnect 4 in my new 23 30% off MSRP. That is not the mark of a well supported model in a car company line up. Jeep basically said we have so many Gladiators on the lots that we are afraid we are going to have the same situation we had with the Renegades as in a year and a half supply sitting on lots. So, if you have notices, Jeep is sprinkling dealerships with one or two 2024's at full MSRP just to see if anyone is interested. And they still have tens of thousands of 2023's sitting on lots and in transit. IF the 12 inch screen nothing but a bell and whistle is all you got, good luck with that.

Essentially, to get people to buy because they recognize the barrier caused by high rates, that could be a deciding factor for many but getting low rates for long terms is the problem. So, you get a low rate for 36 months, you still can't afford the monthly payments for many people. Like with Stellantis, you can get a low rate even for 72 months but you cannot get the low rate of like 5.9 AND the 15% off MSRP incentive together. If they get really desperate, you might see 15% off as an incentive and a 5.9 for 72 months. Starting Aprilish, this is a possibility if they aren't moving things...

There are national credit unions out there like Penn Fed who have 84 months at 7.19 and Navy Federal with a 5.24 for 72, but your credit has to be stellar for those rates. Local credit unions will usually be the next lowest and occasionally you can stumble upon a deal on rates but nowhere close to the 3's of 2020-early 2022. Banks, can't compete and don't seem to want to, in general...

AND a big tell tale for how badly Stellantis is running their company into the ground? They are not participating in any auto shows this year. ITS bad when you don't have anything, at all, to brag about. Nothing, nada zip, this is a bad sign... I'm wondering who will buy Chrysler Corp next... I hope they can run it better or they might just break it up into pieces. Jeep will still be around and Ram I'm thinking but the rest could be gone. They sold 729 Fiat's in the last quarter in the US.

 

[Cspence]

I literally found a rubicon with a sticker of 43k today! I said I can put 10k down if need be and the payment was $900 a month with 11% interest lmaoooooo and we wonder why the sales are down? I wish I could just write the check for 43k but I can’t ……this is exactly why sales are down …..the lease was 8,000 down 700 month! This is on a 43k car! My credit score was 750

what does it matter if the sticker is 43k…..those were payments for cars welll over a 100k years ago

my sports s in 2020 the sticker was 48k and I put 2k down and paid 470 a month. How does this make sense now

Man, 11%?! I almost fell out of the chair at the 7.92% I was quoted, guess I should be happy. By doubling my payments and paying it off in 3 years (assuming everything goes to plan), I calculate I'll end up paying about 4% all said and done. Not great, but more palatable. If you are in a position to do the same, (say pay $1500/mo) that 11% could very likely turn into 6% all said and done.

Of course, no one has a crystal ball either, there may be an opportunity in the future to refi and lock in a lower rate too, but that's certainly not something I want to count on (So I'm banking on laying out $1500-$2000/mo for 2-3 years), but may act on if the opportunity presents itself.

 

[SoK66]

Get big corporate ego, overproduce 'em, then overprice 'em 'cuz you think the rubes are flush and stupid. Watch 'em grow roots on dealer lots. Rather than rake in profits from the pricing, instead pour millions into dealer & customer incentives. Do like all loser brands, feed the "dealer welfare" beast that will linger on your products forever. (I retired from a Jeep competitor and watched us do this every bloody year.)

Sadly for those of us who just bought the heavily discounted '23s, resale value will be disastrous. Plan on keeping it until the proverbial wheels fall off. Sucky situation, but a super fun vehicle.

 

[dayusmc]

Just bought a wrangler (used 2022) last night for my wife. USAA gave her 6.49% for 72 months. Unfortunately they valued the Jeep Wrangler High-Tide with 13k miles and a sticker price of 58k when it was new for 34k, so I couldn't use them. Navy Fed valued the car initially at the same thing, but the rep said that can't be right and pulled the window sticker and KBB value and averaged them and came up with a value of 54k. So I had to use Navy Fed for financing, but they were 8.49%. I don't know if have USAA do a loan application a couple days before somehow affected her credit, but 2% is a huge difference... But we had no choice.
So why am I bringing this up, anyone looking to finance through USAA or Navy Fed should have the Vin number first and give it them to find out what their loan value of the vehicle is before doing the application for the loan. Don't get stuck in the same situation as me... I am mentioning this because of the post a few up that talked about USAA and Navy Fed for financing. Hope it helps someone in the future knowing this ahead of time.
Now on the price of Jeeps and cars in general, they are insanely high! 59k for a wrangler, 65k+ for a Mojave, and the 392 Jeeps, 85k+, crazy ..

 

[Badunit]

I have read similar elsewhere as it relates to what GenZ, for example, is wanting. As truck buyers age out, the younger generations aren't so enamored by the "truck".

And the ones who still like trucks will be inundated even more with favor requests for help moving and hauling stuff. I feel that the more self-reliant you are the more you want and need a truck, which supports your statement about younger generations not being enamored by trucks.

 

[JTDay]

I didn't realize rates were that bad. I'm at 4.8% paying around $350 a month on a 60 monther so I'm pretty content with that.

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