Did the value of Gladiators just fall through the floor ???!

[foxwalkhq]

I have 2 vehicles financed right now and equity in both. I got lucky and bought at the right time and they're financed at good rates. One is a Ford with a 0% loan and I bought it on A plan. I've had equity in it every day I've owned it.

That's good but you're still in debt and still have car payments. I mean no offense I'm just sayin (And I really mean it I'm not just sayin it). I don't want any of those things.

I need one vehicle at least, a reliable one that fits my life. So financing on that one is a necessary evil since I can't pay cash for one now, but no other vehicles until at least I can buy them in cash.

Ideally no other vehicles until I'm wealthy enough to not miss the cash. So that would mean leasing if I wanted a second vehicle.

Sponsored

 

[Wheelin98TJ]

That's good but you're still in debt and still have car payments. I mean no offense I'm just sayin (And I really mean it I'm not just sayin it). I don't want any of those things.

I need one vehicle at least, a reliable one that fits my life. So financing on that one is a necessary evil since I can't pay cash for one now, but no other vehicles until at least I can buy them in cash.

Ideally no other vehicles until I'm wealthy enough to not miss the cash. So that would mean leasing if I wanted a second vehicle.

I'm good with debt at 0%.

You always need some debt so you have credit.

 

[foxwalkhq]

That's great for you but I was talking about me.

You don't need debt. If you have a good spread of credit cards and you never carry a balance you have good credit.

Debt can be used to benefit you, if you finance things that will pay you money (investment properties etc.)

I'm good with debt at 0%.

You always need some debt so you have credit.

 

[Billkowski]

Interesting when I do KBB with standard options for a '22, its over 40K. This is in Alabama...so not sure how much that inpact things

 

[ShadowsPapa]

but I can’t take it with me when I leave

MasterCard - it's good where-ever you go.............

 

[ShadowsPapa]

You don't need debt. If you have a good spread of credit cards and you never carry a balance you have good credit.

Not true. Cards with no balance, never used, don't give you a better score. It doesn't hurt it - unless the creditor decides to close the account from lack of use.
Scores aren't based on how many unused cards or accounts you have.
But that doesn't mean carry high balances all the time, either. Don't go getting up close to the max constantly.

My wife and I both have scores over 820. We use credit cards - we put close to nothing on one each month (typically 300-400 tops) and higher on the other, and pay them both off every month.
Our credit union said we have the highest scores of any of their customers. When I called and said I wanted to buy a new truck (this was before Gladiator existed), I said I want to buy a truck and need $xx,xxx. I went in to pick up the check (that's right, all over the phone, signed one paper, left with check) the guy said "maybe you should consider the diesel, it's a bit more money but we can cut a new check if you want".

I get stuff in the mail several times a week offering me business loans of upwards of 40 and 50K, credit card offers, banks and credit unions after us for our accounts and so on.
A credit card with no debt proves zip to those people - so what, anyone can GET a credit card. It's those who use them and pay them off that count. At least use them for a tank of gas now and then - and pay it off each month. Prove your abilities.

We got socked hard this spring with a sick cat, and my gall bladder crap, and other expenses popping up. Luckily we can get what we need just by signing a paper.
We bought our new HVAC system last year on a same as cash deal - and paid it off 6 months early. Simple - just sign this. And when i went in to pay each month (we always paid 4 times the minimum just to be sure we didn't get socked with interest by being 1 day late at the end of the 18 months) I noticed that not only was the heat pump system covered, but they had us down for another 5K if we needed it. Like they wanted to give us money without us even asking. Oh, here, we see you're good for it - need more? Take this!
Sorry, no LOL.

We try to carry just the right amount of debt, and the right amount of credit card use to keep the score high. Once people see you are good for it, they'll come out of the woodwork offering you more - resist most of that!
I feel like framing that letter i got from the bank years ago. Yeah, 0 income on the tax returns (also meant no SS for those years) but because I used the money smartly, and built my net worth, didn't matter if there was 0 income, I survived a decade where farmers all around me were going bust and forced into bankruptcy, foreclosure all around me.
Clever use of credit, of other people's money will get you far. Don't be a shyster, just be good on your promise, no matter how hard it is, no matter how much work it takes, be good on your promise to pay it back.


-----------------------------------------
From Experian -

When you get a new credit card, the card issuer typically begins reporting your account and its payment history to one or more of the credit bureaus. When you make charges on your credit card and then repay the resulting balances, you add to the payment histories recorded on your credit reports.

Payment history is the single most important factor contributing to your credit scores—responsible for about 35% of your FICO® Score. Making at least the minimum required payment on time every month generates a positive payment history that can promote credit score improvement over time. Just one payment that's 30 days late can cause a significant drop in your credit scores. (Payments that are less than 30 days late will typically lead to penalty charges from your card issuer, but they will not affect your credit scores.)

3. Not Using a Credit Card Can Affect Scores Too
Letting a card go unused for an extended period creates a risk that the issuer will reduce your credit line or even close your account due to inactivity. Many card issuers will do one or the other without warning if your account is idle too long, with "too long" being whatever length of time the issuer decides it is. It's good practice, therefore, to avoid monthslong spans of inactivity on any card you plan to keep.

Using each card to pay a small recurring expense, such as a streaming subscription or gym membership, is a good strategy for keeping your cards active.
----------------------------------

So having cards and not using them isn't necessarily good - There's a sweet spot in there. Best to use them at least a little.

 

[foxwalkhq]

Sorry to hear about your cat. I hope ShadowsKitty is ok.

By carrying a balance I don't mean you never use the card. I just mean you pay it off completely by the end of the statement. There are many people specializing in debt repair and personal finance who will say to never never carry a balance, other people say to carry less than 30% utilization, and the more credit you have the easier this is to do.

Both are right. I suppose it also depends on the specific bank.

But when I pay cards down I will be putting all of my bills on my one credit card that has the highest limit and then paying the entire card off at the end of each cycle.

I get mail all the time telling me I'm pre approved for loans. When I pick up my mail I hold the envelope to the light and if I see the word loan or "prestido" (loan in spanish) in there I just throw it right in the trash.

Not true. Cards with no balance, never used, don't give you a better score. It doesn't hurt it - unless the creditor decides to close the account from lack of use.
Scores aren't based on how many unused cards or accounts you have.
But that doesn't mean carry high balances all the time, either. Don't go getting up close to the max constantly.

My wife and I both have scores over 820. We use credit cards - carry close to nothing on one (typically 300-400 tops) and higher on the other, and pay them off every month.
Our credit union said we have the highest scores of any of their customers. When I called and said I wanted to buy a new truck (this was before Gladiator existed), I said I want to buy a truck and need $xx,xxx. I went in to pick up the check (that's right, all over the phone, signed one paper, left with check) the guy said "maybe you should consider the diesel, it's a bit more money but we can cut a new check if you want".

I get stuff in the mail several times a week offering me business loans of upwards of 40 and 50K, credit card offers, banks and credit unions after us for our accounts and so on.
A credit card with no debt proves zip to those people - so what, anyone can GET a credit card. It's those who use them and pay them off that count. At least use them for a tank of gas now and then - and pay it off each month. Prove your abilities.

We got socked hard this spring with a sick cat, and my gall bladder crap, and other expenses popping up. Luckily we can get what we need just by signing a paper.
We bought our new HVAC system last year on a same as cash deal - and paid it off 6 months early. Simple - just sign this. And when i went in to pay each month (we always paid 4 times the minimum just to be sure we didn't get socked with interest by being 1 day late at the end of the 18 months) I noticed that not only was the heat pump system covered, but they had us down for another 5K if we needed it. Like they wanted to give us money without us even asking. Oh, here, we see you're good for it - need more? Take this!
Sorry, no LOL.

We try to carry just the right amount of debt, and the right amount of credit card use to keep the score high. Once people see you are good for it, they'll come out of the woodwork offering you more - resist most of that!
I feel like framing that letter i got from the bank years ago. Yeah, 0 income on the tax returns (also meant no SS for those years) but because I used the money smartly, and built my net worth, didn't matter if there was 0 income, I survived a decade where farmers all around me were going bust and forced into bankruptcy, foreclosure all around me.
Clever use of credit, of other people's money will get you far. Don't be a shyster, just be good on your promise, no matter how hard it is, no matter how much work it takes, be good on your promise to pay it back.


-----------------------------------------
From Experian -

When you get a new credit card, the card issuer typically begins reporting your account and its payment history to one or more of the credit bureaus. When you make charges on your credit card and then repay the resulting balances, you add to the payment histories recorded on your credit reports.

Payment history is the single most important factor contributing to your credit scores—responsible for about 35% of your FICO® Score. Making at least the minimum required payment on time every month generates a positive payment history that can promote credit score improvement over time. Just one payment that's 30 days late can cause a significant drop in your credit scores. (Payments that are less than 30 days late will typically lead to penalty charges from your card issuer, but they will not affect your credit scores.)

3. Not Using a Credit Card Can Affect Scores Too
Letting a card go unused for an extended period creates a risk that the issuer will reduce your credit line or even close your account due to inactivity. Many card issuers will do one or the other without warning if your account is idle too long, with "too long" being whatever length of time the issuer decides it is. It's good practice, therefore, to avoid monthslong spans of inactivity on any card you plan to keep.

Using each card to pay a small recurring expense, such as a streaming subscription or gym membership, is a good strategy for keeping your cards active.
----------------------------------

So having cards and not using them isn't necessarily good - There's a sweet spot in there. Best to use them at least a little.

 

[sharpsicle]

Using debt smartly is how you can build wealth. Don't be so afraid of using it where appropriate and with good terms. You just need to be smart about it. Especially with car sales, you always need to be financially smart to navigate the deal, because many deals are aimed at "monthly payment" scenarios which usually leave the buyer underwater from high rates or long terms. Most buyers don't know or care to understand the cost to finance, and that's what bites them.

If you can use someone else's money to build your own wealth, why wouldn't you? Low or no interest loans can help you do exactly that by keeping your own cashflow free.

 

[foxwalkhq]

I am convinced that people on forums just give advice without even reading or understanding what the person writing it is asking for.

Just an observation I've had the past week.

 

[ArchEtech]

Automobiles are almost never an investment, and the last 2-3 years have been a harder lesson in that than usual for everyone.

For me, and not to turn this into an EV thread, even though I like EV, I can’t imagine paying off an EV and having it for 15 years and the. The battery cost more than the car is worth after 5 years let alone 15. Eventually we’ll have some shops and repair options but for right now EV are kind of throw away.

In 15 years a gladiator might be with less than an engine replacement, but you can actually get it fixed, with options and it’s not going to be $12,000 like it would for a battery pack. Time will tell, that $12,000 battery pack if it lasts another 7 years might be less than the head gaskets, transmission, long block etc etc of the ice. But that’s assuming the EV isn’t having sensors replaced, door latches replaced, infotainment screens replaced…..

One thing is for sure I kind of like the dark ages lack of tech in my 6 speed Gladiator for now. I probably won’t have it for 15 years anyway, especially if they have a Bronco Truck that’s worth a shit or maybe a new Comanche! Time will tell, cars and trucks are the worst way to spend money but they are fun and a part of life.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

There are many people specializing in debt repair and personal finance who will say to never never carry a balance, other people say to carry less than 30% utilization, and the more credit you have the easier this is to do.

Both are right. I suppose it also depends on the specific bank.

That's never up to a "bank" - it's the credit bureaus. Not banks.
Look at what Experian and others like them say.
They know because THEY determine your credit score - a bank just looks up your credit score.
"Debt repair" people make money off people in trouble, so I don't really pay much attention to them.. maybe they know their stuff, but...........

I go by the credit bureaus themselves. These people are the ones that track your credit -
Experian, Equifax, and TransUnion
I got an email this week saying that xxx company was accessing my credit information and I was asked "is this you" and I didn't have to respond because it was indeed a "18 month, same as cash" thing. We were prepared to pay cash (well, credit card) for the blinds for our sunroom but it was stretching things due to my health stuff and Tuvak's radioactive iodine treatment, so we figured, why not.......... then we could keep our credit cards way down.
We'll pay that off in a couple of months.

 

[Stan H]

The best thing a Guy can do is by an item here and item there store them correctly when the failure comes after the engine has XYZ miles then your already in the good. Back in the day. If a person had a vehicle that old and was probably looking at massive cost in repairs a parts vehicle usually a qausi rusted or wrecked one for a parts vehicle was a great way to go. I used to be a 70's models Ford truck fan. Beds fenders, dash boards etc.. from the junk yard sanded and painted was the best and cheapest option. These Jeeps remind me alot of those in that lots of parts are available and will be for many years to come. I am just keeping mine. These days its cheaper to throw parts at em than it is to buy a new one .

 

[foxwalkhq]

Yeah, I know how it works. If what I was talking about specifically goes by the credit bureaus, then there's broken logic here.

I just posted some well demonstrated facts by people who have high net worths.. Ie. They're rich and wealthy.. Have businesses worth millions..

and then I have middle class folks telling me I'm wrong. And then they tell me that the credit bureaus, the people who are responsible for ALL credit worthiness across the board, are the ones who consider whether or not carrying a balance is bad or good.

Here's the thing. This statement you just made is actually 100% correct, but it goes to prove what I said before.

I honestly have no energy for this anymore. You just CANNOT talk to people online anymore.

I said BOTH ARE RIGHT. What I said is right, and what you said is right. And you're still arguing with me telling me I'm wrong. I didn't disagree with you.

And this just compounds my frustration that I do not need financial advice, I never asked for it. And I am literally done with the whole process.

I feel like driving my truck into a fucking wall.

I have multiple salesmen at the local dealership here trying to get me to buy a $70,000 truck for $1482 a month which is batshit crazy.. They're telling me it's a good deal. They're telling me that I won't have negative equity because the truck holds great resell value and they're telling me EVERYTHING I ASK ABOUT that's not currently on the lot is impossible to get ...

And in another forum I'm just trying to find out is this guy lying to me.. Is this guy for real.. Because I DON'T KNOW!!! I am not familiar with the buying process for this manufacturer. And instead of answering me they just give me random fucking financial advice like I'm two years old.

And then when I directly ask they STILL give me advice and get mad at me like they don't understand what I'm saying.

Then I called up a dealership of a vehicle I found through one of the links they gave me.. I found out that it ISN'T on the lot like they thought.. I learned very good info about how to read the VINs to see if it's in stock or incoming.. and I also got the answer that yes, the dude is lying to me and I should not do business with that dealership.

At this point I am done with Internet forums. I'm done with all this BS. This happens on 80% of forums I go to.. I ask a question, people give unsolicited advice about irrelevant shit and I don't get my questions answered.

That's never up to a "bank" - it's the credit bureaus. Not banks.
Look at what Experian and others like them say.
They know because THEY determine your credit score - a bank just looks up your credit score.
"Debt repair" people make money off people in trouble, so I don't really pay much attention to them.. maybe they know their stuff, but...........

I go by the credit bureaus themselves. These people are the ones that track your credit -
Experian, Equifax, and TransUnion
I got an email this week saying that xxx company was accessing my credit information and I was asked "is this you" and I didn't have to respond because it was indeed a "18 month, same as cash" thing. We were prepared to pay cash (well, credit card) for the blinds for our sunroom but it was stretching things due to my health stuff and Tuvak's radioactive iodine treatment, so we figured, why not.......... then we could keep our credit cards way down.
We'll pay that off in a couple of months.

AND JUST TO MAKE IT CRYSTAL CLEAR so I don't get "Ohh well you're the dummy who thinks $1500 for a month for a $70,000 truck and thinks it will get rid of the negative equity is a good deal"

I did not say that nor do I think it. I know it's a bad deal.THE SALESMAN TOLD ME THAT.
I did not say that nor do I think it. I know it's a bad deal.THE SALESMAN TOLD ME THAT.
I did not say that nor do I think it. I know it's a bad deal.THE SALESMAN TOLD ME THAT.
I did not say that nor do I think it. I know it's a bad deal.THE SALESMAN TOLD ME THAT.
I did not say that nor do I think it. I know it's a bad deal.THE SALESMAN TOLD ME THAT.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Yeah, I know how it works. If what I was talking about specifically goes by the credit bureaus, then there's broken logic here.

How is it broken logic?
You can have good standing at a bank - but your credit score is 100% your history as tracked by the big three credit bureaus. A bank can't help your credit score - only you can. And good standing at a bank doesn't mean another bank or credit card company will care.

I just posted some well demonstrated facts by people who have high net worths.. Ie. They're rich and wealthy.. Have businesses worth millions..

LOL - that's almost funny. They only know how THEY got there, what they did. Not how the common person's credit grows.
I left home with $0 I worked my way through college, survived farming in the 1980s, had a job that paid a whopping 14K a year, we bought a retail store for 100 grand, 5 years later sold it for 200K, (I also doubled the gross of that store in 2 years) and was able to retire from state government at age 60. So I don't think I'm doing too badly.

I said BOTH ARE RIGHT. What I said is right, and what you said is right. And you're still arguing with me telling me I'm wrong. I didn't disagree with you.

You said a bank does the credit bit, and that having a deck of credit cards gives you good credit. That's a small fraction of the whole 100%.
Using them, how you use them, and paying them off, that counts. Not just having cards.
We have TWO - and yet our scores are over 820 last we checked.
Two credit cards, there's almost always something on them in a given month. paying them, making payments on time, it's your history.
I don't really think of it as arguing when I was simply correcting the bit that banks determine it - they don't. Having a bunch of credit cards isn't a big help - paying bills is, using and leveraging that credit is. Having 4 cards and not using 2 or 3 of them isn't helping much.

I just posted some well demonstrated facts by people who have high net worths.. Ie. They're rich and wealthy.. Have businesses worth millions..

Which "facts" came from your rich, wealthy sources (of course they know more BECAUSE they are rich!)
The fact they are rich and have businesses worth millions doesn't necessarily mean they know about how the common person builds up their credit score.
So who were these people?
I'd love to know why you get your information from wealthy rich millionaires with big businesses.

I take some tips from the credit bureaus, but really not much of it - mostly it's been ME - all of my life it's been logic and common sense, a lot of that learned from of all people - my mother.

Do whatever. I think this whole thread is rather pointless at this point. You fell into hard times, and blame Jeep or dealers or whatever, and say - and this is what you said - you got screwed or f'ked or whatever, and no, you did not. No one in the world is to blame for any of it. It happens, and it happens to tens of thousands of people every year.
You can't blame anyone at all, no one. You bought an expensive truck wanting (key word there, wanting) to do more - overlanding (which an Overland or Sport can easily do with better mpg) you mentioned locker - why do you need that? There's threads here arguing the point and in the end, it's about half and half - some swear you must have them, others say- nope, never really needed locker. But you want it (without knowing you really NEED it?)
You could have done exactly what you want to do with a lesser version of the JT and built it up as NECESSARY, or as NEEDS changed or as it was proven you needed something else.
You'd be amazed at what these can do and where they can go. If truly overlanding and camping, you could easily skip the Rubicon or Mojave. That would cut payments down a lot, and then you use a credit card (gasp) to buy accessories or add-ons as you NEED them.

But as far as you being stuck in an expensive vehicle - you didn't get fked or screwed or anything, no one did anything. It was circumstances that some predicted, some saw coming, but most did not.
Shit happens, and this time it happened to you.
It's happened to me in the past, and I survived it, no bitterness, no complaining (mostly laughing as they never could find one person to replace me! One person still at that company told me it took 3 people to handle the tasks I was doing as no one person had all the skills - bitter? No. Laughing at those dopes at that company, yeah.
I was actually later thankful I got laid off! Why? Because it got me into state government IT work! Much better benefits. Every setback meant another rung in the ladder - each fail pushed me farther up. No blame, no hate, no bitterness.

 

[916WI]

Yeah, I know how it works. If what I was talking about specifically goes by the credit bureaus, then there's broken logic here.

I just posted some well demonstrated facts by people who have high net worths.. Ie. They're rich and wealthy.. Have businesses worth millions..

and then I have middle class folks telling me I'm wrong. And then they tell me that the credit bureaus, the people who are responsible for ALL credit worthiness across the board, are the ones who consider whether or not carrying a balance is bad or good.

Here's the thing. This statement you just made is actually 100% correct, but it goes to prove what I said before.

I honestly have no energy for this anymore. You just CANNOT talk to people online anymore.

I said BOTH ARE RIGHT. What I said is right, and what you said is right. And you're still arguing with me telling me I'm wrong. I didn't disagree with you.

And this just compounds my frustration that I do not need financial advice, I never asked for it. And I am literally done with the whole process.

I feel like driving my truck into a fucking wall.

I have multiple salesmen at the local dealership here trying to get me to buy a $70,000 truck for $1482 a month which is batshit crazy.. They're telling me it's a good deal. They're telling me that I won't have negative equity because the truck holds great resell value and they're telling me EVERYTHING I ASK ABOUT that's not currently on the lot is impossible to get ...

And in another forum I'm just trying to find out is this guy lying to me.. Is this guy for real.. Because I DON'T KNOW!!! I am not familiar with the buying process for this manufacturer. And instead of answering me they just give me random fucking financial advice like I'm two years old.

And then when I directly ask they STILL give me advice and get mad at me like they don't understand what I'm saying.

Then I called up a dealership of a vehicle I found through one of the links they gave me.. I found out that it ISN'T on the lot like they thought.. I learned very good info about how to read the VINs to see if it's in stock or incoming.. and I also got the answer that yes, the dude is lying to me and I should not do business with that dealership.

At this point I am done with Internet forums. I'm done with all this BS. This happens on 80% of forums I go to.. I ask a question, people give unsolicited advice about irrelevant shit and I don't get my questions answered.



AND JUST TO MAKE IT CRYSTAL CLEAR so I don't get "Ohh well you're the dummy who thinks $1500 for a month for a $70,000 truck and thinks it will get rid of the negative equity is a good deal"

I did not say that nor do I think it. I know it's a bad deal.THE SALESMAN TOLD ME THAT.
I did not say that nor do I think it. I know it's a bad deal.THE SALESMAN TOLD ME THAT.
I did not say that nor do I think it. I know it's a bad deal.THE SALESMAN TOLD ME THAT.
I did not say that nor do I think it. I know it's a bad deal.THE SALESMAN TOLD ME THAT.
I did not say that nor do I think it. I know it's a bad deal.THE SALESMAN TOLD ME THAT.

You just need to go sell the Jeep--Immediately. Whether it's to Carmax, Carvana or your local dealership. Take the option that offers you the most money and walk away from it. You bought the wrong truck at the wrong time, and you will have negative equity to mitigate, but that relatively small amount of money pales in comparison to dealing with the mental anguish that this lingering situation is causing you. After you correct the Jeep issue, find yourself a 8-10 yr old Honda Civic with 100k of highway mileage on it and a solid maintenance history and drive that until you get your life together.........Good luck..........

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